My proposed TTM, look sound?

[2000se]

Does this schedule look sound?

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=11088&pictureid=75918

[Deinonych]

You'll need an extra transfer, or keep the fish in the first tank a day longer. Total TTM period should be 12 days, not 11. Normal schedule is to transfer on days 4, 7, 10 and 13. Personally, I like to give the fish some downtime (about a week minimum) to acclimate and get on a schedule before I start TTM.

[2000se]

Ok, let me redo the schedule to accommodate. I'll repost ---

Actually , see if I understand.

The seller will be transferring from their tank to the bag on Thursday. That's one transfer.

Then the next day (24 hrs. later) I'll be transferring from the bag to my first tank. That's another transfer. Again 24 hrs.

Then I'll be carrying on with my transfers adding an additional 4. Help me understand what I'm missing please.

[snorvich]

Ok, let me redo the schedule to accommodate. I'll repost ---

Actually , see if I understand.

The seller will be transferring from their tank to the bag on Thursday. That's one transfer.

That one does not count

Then the next day (24 hrs. later) I'll be transferring from the bag to my first tank. That's another transfer. Again 24 hrs.

That one also does not countdoes not count; match water of your tank to the bag water

Then I'll be carrying on with my transfers adding an additional 4. Help me understand what I'm missing please.

Those count but insure no stay is greater than 72 hours

[ThRoewer]

Time in hours is fairly meaningless to the parasite - they go by the light cycle and almost exclusively hatch during the dark period (unless you leave the light always on - then they will eventually hatch while the light is on).
So the important thing is to transfer the fish before the light goes out.

Also, don't trust on the seller for a transfer - the water he uses to bag the fish could come from an infected system.


Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[2000se]

This is great learning thank you for pitching in here.

So if I am starting to understand this more, if I simply extend my first section by 1 more day, I'll have my 12 days...


Also, is it ok for the second and fourth transfer that they will occur closer to the 65 hour mark rather than the 72hrs mark?

like this:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=11088&pictureid=75919

[ThRoewer]

I would always try to transfer as late in the day as possible - ideally an hour or two before the lights go out. That way you can be fairly sure that all protomonts have encysted and minimize the risk of moving one over to the next tank.

[ThRoewer]

Some further reading:

This is a good abstract: http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa164

If you want to go more in deep I would recommend these:

Aspects of the biology of Cryptocaryon irritans, and hyposalinity as a control measure in cultured gilt-head sea bream Sparus aurata (http://www.int-res.com/articles/dao/1/d001p019.pdf) by A. Colorni

Cryptocaryon irritans Brown, 1951 (Ciliophora): Transmission and Immune Response in the Mullet Chelon labrosus (Risso, 1826) (https://pearl.plymouth.ac.uk/bitstream/handle/10026.1/2632/PETER%20JOHN%20BURGESS.PDF?sequence=1&isAllowed=y) Thesis by Peter John Burgess

Characterization of Cryptocaryon irritans, a parasite isolated from marine fishes in Taiwan (http://www.int-res.com/articles/dao2003/54/d054p147.pdf) by Apolinario V. Yambot, Yen-Ling Song, Hung-Hung Sung

[Newms118]

This is great learning thank you for pitching in here.

So if I am starting to understand this more, if I simply extend my first section by 1 more day, I'll have my 12 days...


Also, is it ok for the second and fourth transfer that they will occur closer to the 65 hour mark rather than the 72hrs mark?

like this:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=11088&pictureid=75919

Are you doing this with just 2 tanks or more? Also, when you transfer the fish, how are you cleaning all the tank and equipment? Letting it air dry?

[2000se]

Are you doing this with just 2 tanks or more? Also, when you transfer the fish, how are you cleaning all the tank and equipment? Letting it air dry?

I have 4 tanks, an air pump with several air stones I will be using. I have 2 heaters to which I will rotating out. I will need to the clean (soak in bleach) and dry the heaters to cycle those but will use new hose and air stones for the aerator.

[2000se]

Some further reading:

This is a good abstract: http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa164

If you want to go more in deep I would recommend these:

Aspects of the biology of Cryptocaryon irritans, and hyposalinity as a control measure in cultured gilt-head sea bream Sparus aurata (http://www.int-res.com/articles/dao/1/d001p019.pdf) by A. Colorni

Cryptocaryon irritans Brown, 1951 (Ciliophora): Transmission and Immune Response in the Mullet Chelon labrosus (Risso, 1826) (https://pearl.plymouth.ac.uk/bitstream/handle/10026.1/2632/PETER%20JOHN%20BURGESS.PDF?sequence=1&isAllowed=y) Thesis by Peter John Burgess

Characterization of Cryptocaryon irritans, a parasite isolated from marine fishes in Taiwan (http://www.int-res.com/articles/dao2003/54/d054p147.pdf) by Apolinario V. Yambot, Yen-Ling Song, Hung-Hung Sung

Thanks for the additional reading. I've actually read the first one. It's a good read for this. Need to go through the others.

[2000se]

I would always try to transfer as late in the day as possible - ideally an hour or two before the lights go out. That way you can be fairly sure that all protomonts have encysted and minimize the risk of moving one over to the next tank.

I am having a hard time with this as I have no idea when the fish will arrive at my door step. As soon as I get them, I will need them to go into a tank or something and at that point, might as well start the TTM...Unless I just house them temporarily in another tank until the right time to start the TTM. I'll see what happens.

[ThRoewer]

You can ignore the 72h - especially on the first tank. Precisely timing the transfers is really not what's important. Really important is that the fish never spend more than 3 nights in the same tank.

The ripe protomonts leave the fish during the night and then have 18h to encyst. That's why you want to transfer as late as possible.

The cysts also only release tomites after dark.

This was found and verified during Burgess' study.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[2000se]

ThRoewer - Great advice! I really appreciate the input here.

[snorvich]

I think you are making this more complex than needed.

Tank Transfer Method (often referred to in the forums as ‘TTM’) is a method for prophylactic treatment of Cryptocaryon irritans, (referred herein as just ‘Ich’) that is common to marine fish when held in captivity and is different than the freshwater equivalent Ichthyophthirius multifiliis. The method entails transferring a fish from one tank to another multiple times until the parasite eliminates itself because of the nature of the life cycle. When administered correctly, TTM is highly effective at eliminating Ich from the fish.

The following are the most important points for administering TTM properly:
+ Transfers need to occur every 72 hours OR less, never more
+ The total number of days for all transfer cycles is 12 or more.
+ A minimum of four transfers is required, with more required if doing transfers more frequently than every 72 hours
+ Time of day of transfers does not matter, provided no more than 72 hours elapse between transfers (ignore what you think you know or have heard about mornings being required)
+ Between transfers, the tank and equipment should be cleaned (with bleach or vinegar and water) and allowed to completely dry AND stay completely dry for 24 hours OR longer
+ The day you purchase your fish counts as a full Day in the 12-day counter, as long as you do not allow 72 hours to pass before your first transfer
+ You will need two or more of all your equipment, recommended:
* Tank or bucket/bin of an appropriate size
*Heater, plus thermometer (yes, even that you need two of)
* Hiding places (simply PVC elbows work great and they do not roll)
* Air tube & Air stone – should be thrown out after each use/transfer
* Tank cover (to prevent jumping)
*A square colander is recommended
+ Powerheads and HOB filters can be used, but may complicate the disinfection process due to the risk of incomplete drying. If powerheads/HOB filters are to be used, a thorough (24-hour) soak in bleach solution is recommended. Many people use an ammonia nullifier such as Prime (added on day 2 of each cycle) and do not bother with any type of filtration.
+ It is recommended you transfer your fish using a colander, however by hand or by net is OK with some considerations
+ As little water as possible should be transferred with the fish
+ Using Display Tank water instead of newly mixed water is OK if your Display Tank is guaranteed to be disease free
+ For best practice, you should keep your fish quarantined in an observation tank for at least 4 weeks after TTM completes, the longer the better; this will allow any other parasite masked by a low level of copper in the fish source to exhibit symptoms.
+ You can dose PraziPro for Flukes along with TTM or after
+ It is not advised to couple TTM with other treatment methods involving chemicals except Prazipro
+ Do not put your TTM tanks within 10 feet of your Display Tank due to the risk of disease transmission via aerosol contamination. Preferably, keep your QT/TTM tanks in a separate room or location.
+ TTM only works on fish, since the parasite’s life cycle requires a fish host,
+ TTM does NOT work on anything else, such as hermits, snails, live rock, macro algae, ANYTHING WET!)
+ TTM only works with cryptocaryon irritans (ich) and not with any other parasite

[microlady]

Please observe in a quarantine tank at least a other 4-5 weeks after TTM. Some of the nasties can be latent for a few weeks.

[gmcpickup66]

Is it possible to have a qt observation tank with out live rock or skimmer. Or would this raise ammonia? I'm prepared for the ttm but not sure of the observation tank.

[Newms118]

I think you are making this more complex than needed.

Tank Transfer Method (often referred to in the forums as ‘TTM’) is a method for prophylactic treatment of Cryptocaryon irritans, (referred herein as just ‘Ich’) that is common to marine fish when held in captivity and is different than the freshwater equivalent Ichthyophthirius multifiliis. The method entails transferring a fish from one tank to another multiple times until the parasite eliminates itself because of the nature of the life cycle. When administered correctly, TTM is highly effective at eliminating Ich from the fish.

The following are the most important points for administering TTM properly:
+ Transfers need to occur every 72 hours OR less, never more
+ The total number of days for all transfer cycles is 12 or more.
+ A minimum of four transfers is required, with more required if doing transfers more frequently than every 72 hours
+ Time of day of transfers does not matter, provided no more than 72 hours elapse between transfers (ignore what you think you know or have heard about mornings being required)
+ Between transfers, the tank and equipment should be cleaned (with bleach or vinegar and water) and allowed to completely dry AND stay completely dry for 24 hours OR longer
+ The day you purchase your fish counts as a full Day in the 12-day counter, as long as you do not allow 72 hours to pass before your first transfer
+ You will need two or more of all your equipment, recommended:
* Tank or bucket/bin of an appropriate size
*Heater, plus thermometer (yes, even that you need two of)
* Hiding places (simply PVC elbows work great and they do not roll)
* Air tube & Air stone – should be thrown out after each use/transfer
* Tank cover (to prevent jumping)
*A square colander is recommended
+ Powerheads and HOB filters can be used, but may complicate the disinfection process due to the risk of incomplete drying. If powerheads/HOB filters are to be used, a thorough (24-hour) soak in bleach solution is recommended. Many people use an ammonia nullifier such as Prime (added on day 2 of each cycle) and do not bother with any type of filtration.
+ It is recommended you transfer your fish using a colander, however by hand or by net is OK with some considerations
+ As little water as possible should be transferred with the fish
+ Using Display Tank water instead of newly mixed water is OK if your Display Tank is guaranteed to be disease free
+ For best practice, you should keep your fish quarantined in an observation tank for at least 4 weeks after TTM completes, the longer the better; this will allow any other parasite masked by a low level of copper in the fish source to exhibit symptoms.
+ You can dose PraziPro for Flukes along with TTM or after
+ It is not advised to couple TTM with other treatment methods involving chemicals except Prazipro
+ Do not put your TTM tanks within 10 feet of your Display Tank due to the risk of disease transmission via aerosol contamination. Preferably, keep your QT/TTM tanks in a separate room or location.
+ TTM only works on fish, since the parasite’s life cycle requires a fish host,
+ TTM does NOT work on anything else, such as hermits, snails, live rock, macro algae, ANYTHING WET!)
+ TTM only works with cryptocaryon irritans (ich) and not with any other parasite

Thanks for this.

[Newms118]

What ratio of water to bleach do people use for cleaning? Are we soaking tank/equipment for an hour in the bleach water or is this just a wipe down etc.?

[Kyl]

I think you are making this more complex than needed.

Tank Transfer Method.....

Thanks for that very thorough post Snorvich! Just getting into the swing of QT/TTM and I'm definitely going to keep that for reference.

[2000se]

Please observe in a quarantine tank at least a other 4-5 weeks after TTM. Some of the nasties can be latent for a few weeks.

Agree on this good advice

[microlady]

Is it possible to have a qt observation tank with out live rock or skimmer. Or would this raise ammonia? I'm prepared for the ttm but not sure of the observation tank.

I use HOB Aquaclear filters on my 29 gallon quarantine tanks. A seeded sponge from the display can help and keep a close watch on ammonia. 4 or 5 small fish should be fine for a few weeks with frequent testing and water changes. I had a 3" yellow tang once that kept causing the ammonia to rise so I performed water changes a few times a week and used Prime to combat ammonia.

[microlady]

What ratio of water to bleach do people use for cleaning? Are we soaking tank/equipment for an hour in the bleach water or is this just a wipe down etc.?

1:10 bleach or 1:1 vinegar with tap water for a few minutes should be ok, but letting the equipment dry is the most important part. I lay everything out in the sun for 3 days and use fresh airline tubing at each transfer. I don't use airstones or powerheads.

[gmcpickup66]

When I do a water change for the qt tank should I use tank water or fresh saltwater? Also how long should I put the sponge in the display tank to seed? Also should I ruin carbon/gfo mix also with the hob?

[Deinonych]

When I do a water change for the qt tank should I use tank water or fresh saltwater? Also how long should I put the sponge in the display tank to seed? Also should I ruin carbon/gfo mix also with the hob?

Out of respect for the OP, please start a new discussion thread with your questions/topic. It will ensure your questions get the proper attention, and this thread will stay on topic. Thanks! :)

[gmcpickup66]

I thought maybe this would also help the OP in their process. I apologize to the op

[2000se]

No apologies...we're all here to learn. Thanks for contributing. Fish are arriving tomorrow sometime so we'll see how this goes. First time doing this TTM. Thanks for all the support!

In fact, I thought about this day for almost 3 years now getting this fish so I am REALLY paranoid and nervous..this will be my second addition to the tank. The other one is now almost 3.5 years old

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=11088&pictureid=75945