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firedan
08/15/2016, 08:44 PM
hello all I am upgrading to 320gal DT with 125 gal sump, my question what standpipe to us and how many to achieve 4000gph turn over. I like bean animal for fail safe but also like durso for simple fact no plumbing out back of tank. I am good either way just want the best for my tank with the flow I want. thanks all for guidance and opinions

mcgyvr
08/16/2016, 06:15 AM
The best is the bean... hands down..

Why 4000GPH? 3-5x display is plenty..

LXXero
08/16/2016, 06:19 AM
Agreed, bean. With 1.5" bulkheads @ 4ft head you will get nearly 5300GPH according to the calculator on bean's site. I'd almost consider going 2" bulkheads just so you have more lee-way on the emergency drain, because a 1.5" pipe that isn't a tuned siphon might not even get half of that, from what i'm reading typical 1.5" durso is 1500gph or so....the 2" bulkheads would give a lot more margin for safety...at 4000gph anyway.

firedan
08/16/2016, 08:28 AM
thanks well the 4000gph just came up with a 10x turnover. so how many bulk heads would be needed

fishgate
08/16/2016, 09:29 AM
I think I'd do 2 1" drains at full siphon rather than one enormous one. That is a hellatious amount of flow into your sump - might create a title wave! 2 gives you the option to cut back on your flow too if needed. I don't know how a 2" full-siphon drain would function if backed off that much.

mcgyvr
08/16/2016, 11:11 AM
thanks well the 4000gph just came up with a 10x turnover. so how many bulk heads would be needed

way more than you need IMO.. I shoot for 3-5x display volume..
1500GPH after losses is just fine.. And will save you quite a bit in energy/lower heat transfer,etc.. and just make the sump/skimmer work better giving time for the sump to do its job before the water is returned to the display..

3 x 1.5" bulkheads to do the bean then depending on how you do your return you might need more bulkheads (if not just doing over the top returns)..

Greybeard
08/16/2016, 02:29 PM
I concur.

Flow is more easily provided by a wavemaker or gyre... they're efficient enough these days that they've all but done away with closed loop systems. 10x through the sump is overkill. Worst thing about it is going to be the noise... Bean or Herbie drains are very quiet, but moving 4000gph through a sump is going to sound like Niagara Falls :)

I'd agree with above... get a 1500gph pump, with head loss, you're going to end up with around 4x tank volume turnover. Plenty.

2x 1" bulkheads at full siphon can easily carry that volume, plus a 1" 'trickle' drain, and if you can, a 1" dry emergency drain.

LXXero
08/16/2016, 04:39 PM
i would not do less than 1.5" bulkheads on that tank. you can't go back and make it bigger once the tank is setup. and trust me, you can dial back a 1.5" just fine, i do! I don't see why dialing back a 2" would be any different (and if it were me personally i'd probably want to size it so that the emergency drain can handle nearly all the flow. On my tank, i have 3x1.5" bulkheads, but 2 of them are reduced to 1", and 1 of them (the emergency) stays 1.5" the whole way. I can be a lot more certain with this setup that my overflow/drain setup will never create a mess with the up-sized emergency. i have a 1.5" gate valve on the full siphon, the only reason it's even reduced at all is cause my sump's inputs are 2x1" so i had no choice without heavy mods to the sump

So even if you do 2" bulkheads, which are admittedly huge, make 2 go down to 1.5" and keep one 2" all the way. THATS what i'd personally do, but a lot of people seem to think you need to follow bean's article to the T, it's just not the case. There's plenty of little tweaks and adjustments you can do along the way, and will still work perfectly fine!

even if you dont plan on doing as big of a return pump. lol mind you i have nearly 1300-1400GPH going through my sump AFTER head on my 120G, but i was shooting for 10x, lol. so i think its funny ppl are suggesting the same flow for your 300gal, but not everyone is putting the same stuff in their tank so it's all opinion though. ask 10 ppl get 10 diff answers

spend the money and get the big *** SCH80 spears gate valve for your full siphon line. You won't regret it and will take any question of whether it can be "tuned" out of the picture. Oh it can be tuned and that valve is gonna make it a breeze. If you reduce down to 1.5" then the 1.5" valve is liek $60, i don't even know what a 2" one would cost but it wont be cheap i'm sure haha.

firedan
08/16/2016, 07:42 PM
wow this shouldn't be so tuff lol I just want to do once and the best I can for my set-up. I do agree with all that everyone is saying especially 4000 gph going in my sump. I can fit many hole the tank is 96 long. so if I am reading correctly 4 holes be perfect 2 full 1 trickle and a emergency. I am going with 1.5 bulkheads and tune down if needed. the emergency should that also be 1.5 or 2 in? again thanks all cant wait to get done gathering info and jump in to building.

LXXero
08/16/2016, 09:18 PM
i dont think you need to do 4. just 3. it's actually way more obnoxious tuning 2 separate siphons, and if it's all in the same weir, just do 3.

if you wanted, you could do 2x 1.5" and 1x2" for emergency. I think that would work well, you shouldn't have any trouble tuning it.

Lsufan
08/16/2016, 10:07 PM
I would just keep it simple & use 1.5" bulkheads & 1.5" pvc with all 3 drains. As far as turnover through the sump I run about 8 to 10 times turnover but that's only 450gph in one & a little over 1000gph in the other. If my stem was as big as yours I would probably shoot for about 5 times turnover because 4000 gph through the sump would more then likely be kinda loud.

Eighther way I would use all 1.5" for the drains even if u only end up with 1500 to 2000 gph. It will keep the system quieter using the 1.5". I also agree that it is a lot easier tuning the system in with only 1 syphon.

One thing u didn't mention & will affect your drain setup is what type of overflow box are u planning on using in the tank?

firedan
08/17/2016, 08:51 AM
3 1.5" bulkhead sound great to me, after more research I do I believe that to be fine. as far as the overflow box that was going to be my next question, was thinking making my own as 250 for a box I think is a bit much so insight on this would also be greatly appreciated

firedan
08/18/2016, 08:21 AM
any more help please

firedan
08/18/2016, 08:22 AM
also how far down would I drill my tank for the 3 bulkhead fittings