Strange Bottle Bacteria Cycle

[00101]

So I started a new tank with fiji dry rock, and the zeo bacteria with zeostart. I've been dosing zeostart and zeobak according to their labels and the quick cycle guide from KZ.

Its been 16 days and my ammonia is off the API chart (>8ppm). According to their guide I should have had fish in there about a week ago.

Last time I did a fast cycle with bottle bacteria I did it with Tim's and dosed ammonia. Only took about a week.

Perhaps my bottle got cooked in shipping and the live population is really low?

[bertoni]

That ammonia level is high enough that it might be inhibiting the growth of the bacteria. I'd probably replace all the water in the system, and work from there.

[00101]

Interesting. Any other thoughts before I waste more salt?

[Becks]

I've heard ammonia over 5ppm can stall the cycle, dr Tims website mentions not to let the ammonia go above 5ppm for fish less cycle instructions. Sometimes in the dry rock there is a lot of dead organics deep inside the rock too

[00101]

Will I have to completely reseed or should the bacteria still be alive, just stunned?

[bertoni]

There should be bacteria on the rocks, if any survived the ammonia level.

[00101]

So I'm starting to think that the bottle is a dud. Ammonia has been rock steady at 1-2ppm (api is hard to read) and so far zero nitrates. I should be seeing something after 8 days now, right?

[bertoni]

I would have expected some results by now, assuming that the dry rock was free of organic debris and the bottle actually had anything live in it.

[Buzz1329]

Interesting. Any other thoughts before I waste more salt?

Yes. Listen to Bertoni. Salt is cheap compared to advice of an expert.

[00101]

Yes. Listen to Bertoni. Salt is cheap compared to advice of an expert.

A 100% water change was done that day. I just pause before throwing 40 gallons of salt down the drain on one single piece of advice.

Is it worth pursuing a refund on the bacteria? I'd like to do a viable plate count to confirm, but I no longer have access to plates and such.

[nmotz]

You can pursue a refund if you want, but I'll tell you that this is the kind of thing that happens in this hobby from time to time. For that reason I try to avoid adding too much "extra" stuff to my tank that will either not work as promised or inadvertently screw up the tank's chemistry.

For whatever reason, no two tanks are exactly the same. You might set up two right next to each other and have one cycle in 3 days and the other in 3 weeks. Hard to explain why sometimes. Best of luck to you!

[bertoni]

I don't know how you'd fare with a refund. You could try, but it might be a lot of work.

[00101]

Well tank is cycled now. Went from nothing to just an explosion of nitrates. I added ammonia up to 2-3 ppm and it was gone within 16 hours, so I'm pretty confident on that side. Nitrates are off the api chart (>160 lol) which to me, means there was a hell of a lot of organics still on the rocks.

Now my question is, should I leave it empty for a while longer just to let the microbes chew through whatever is left on the rocks, or is a week or so since cycling fine? At this point its been long enough of an empty tank that another week or two is pretty meaningless compared to not having to deal with nutrient problems right out of the gate.

[bertoni]

I would wait for a week of zero ammonia before adding any fish or soft corals. That'll reduce the odds of adding animals just before a secondary ammonia spike. I'd also do a series of water changes to try to remove any secondary metabolites. For stony corals, I'd wait until the nitrate was lower.

[00101]

I would wait for a week of zero ammonia before adding any fish or soft corals. That'll reduce the odds of adding animals just before a secondary ammonia spike. I'd also do a series of water changes to try to remove any secondary metabolites. For stony corals, I'd wait until the nitrate was lower.

Oh of course. I was just going to dump all of the water in there and put in new water before putting anything in. I don't even want to imagine the nightmare of trying to bring nitrates down from >160 with actual livestock in there.