Help! All my fish are dying, but my corals seem normal

[cvore2004]

I bought a new tank recently and transferred from the old(running for 2 years now) to the new the night before last. I used 20# of the old substrate, all the old live rock, and about 50 gallons of the old water, plus 10 gallons of newly mixed(same amount i change weekly) water and 50# new dry substrate.

I moved the corals and live rock into 5 gallon buckets, the fish in the old tank with about 20 gallons of water, and put the new/old substrate in the new tank with about 20 gallons of old water and 10 of new and left it that way over night.

The next morning I had a coral beauty and a cleaner shrimp that both died while in the old tank. I did some rockscaping, and moved the coral over, then moved the fish over.

The fish seemed fine all day, though oddly communal(swimming together in one corner) before bed. I have a diamond goby, yellow tang, ocilareus clown, spotted damsel, and a filefish. None of the fish i have in the new tank are dead, but they are all obviously struggling near the bottom of the tank. Corals are looking about like you'd expect after a move(moderate polyp extension.

Salinity at 1.025
Ammonia at ~.25-.5
Nitrates at ~0-5
Nitrites at 0
Ph at ~7.8-8
Temperature at 79f

I had limited oxygenation (2 powerheads near the surface) since my sump tank cracked and i couldn't hook up the skimmer, but I'd expect the fish to be near the surface if oxygen was the issue. I hooked up an air line to the intake on my uv sterilizer powerhead(still running this way) and then moved my circulation pumps to just over the surface of the water to churn the surface as much as possible for an hour.

I added melafix and pimafix to the tank this morning in case of bacteria or fungal issues related to the stirred up substrate.

Im making another 10 gallons of new water to do another partial water change, but i need to see if there's anything else I can do to save my fish.


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[joshbrookkate]

There should be no ammonia. Zero. Deadly to fish.
I'd do a big water change. And add some Prime asap.

Hoping this helps.....

[ThRoewer]

If there is so much ammonia you have some die-off, likely in or on the rocks. Did you transport them out of water?

[Sk8r]

Corals tolerate ammonia much better than fish; but do not tolerate nitrate produced from fish die-off, so both can crash if not remediated asap. Prime.

[cvore2004]

There should be no ammonia. Zero. Deadly to fish.
I'd do a big water change. And add some Prime asap.

Hoping this helps.....
I added some ammo-lock and a double dose of prime. Forgot to mention that in the op. but im limited to 10 gallons at a time on my reservoir. Thanks for the quick response.

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[cvore2004]

If there is so much ammonia you have some die-off, likely in or on the rocks. Did you transport them out of water?
The only transport out of water was in lifting them from tank to bucket to tank.

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[cvore2004]

Corals tolerate ammonia much better than fish; but do not tolerate nitrate produced from fish die-off, so both can crash if not remediated asap. Prime.
I see. I assumed fish were less vulnerable in every way. Ill have to pick up some more prime on my way home tomorrow. I had just enough left from cycling my tank 2 years ago for a dose.

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[ThRoewer]

Did you wash the dry substrate well?

[cvore2004]

Did you wash the dry substrate well?
Um, ****, no... I have never washed my substrate, but this is the first time i have added it to a tank that wasn't being cycled for weeks.. i didn't even think about that.

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[ThRoewer]

I wash my substrate, let it soak for a day, wash it again, soak, wash,...
You wouldn't believe the dirt and garbage that can come out of it...

[Silly clownfish]

I suspect that in moving the old substrate you stirred up a lot of nasties - especially from the substrate that had been under rock and not vaccumed or stirred since the tank was set up. That is probably what caused the start of the rise in ammonia and nitrates Nd killed the CB and shrimp, then when those died and started decomposing, things got worse from there.

I get the limitation on making new batches of water. Could you set up a 10g tank or 2 to use like a qt to get the fish out of the new tank for a few days until the parameters settle?

Or buy RO water to do more water changes if you can. i don't see the size of the new tank to be able to tell what 10% 10g is.

I don't know what your tap water is like. With my well, I know if I need to I can use it unfiltered and just need to buffer for alk/ph. Using straight tap water for me is only an issue long term for silcate build up, but I don't do it unless it is an emergency.

[JohnnyHildo]

i just moved my 120 to my new place 10 days ago and suffered zero casualties between my fish, snails, shrimp, conches and crabs.
a couple of things i attribute my success to was using 100% new substrate and probably 75% new water.
i was surprised to see my fish acting completely as if nothing changed the next day.

[cvore2004]

Well, thank you for your response. Hopefully when i get home again everybody will be better. Between school, work, and a girlfriend who lives 30 minutes away, i don't get home to them as much as i should.

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[Blazingreef123]

Hmm, this is interesting, just about 2 months ago now I moved about 4 hours away and had to move my 55g freshwater planted, my 20g freshwater planted, and my 75g reef tank. I used a 55g food grade barrel to transport 55g of old saltwater and I made a mini aquarium with half of my sand and live rock and all my fish in a igloo 55qt cooler. Suffered zero casualties even though I stirred up the sand like crazy. But literally all my old sand and rock was used in the new aquarium. Did I just get lucky or what? Should you normally replace substrate when you move?

[cvore2004]

I didnt replace the substrate out of perceived requirement, i just had a relatively thin sand bed and wanted more, but bought too much, so i only used about 50℅ of the old.

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[cvore2004]

I will be moving apartments in mid October, so hopefully it will go much smoother the next time :-/

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[cvore2004]

Turns out i had lots of die off apparently. My ammonia levels are at ~4ppm despite 2 days of ammo lock, a 30% water change and double doses of prime. Doing another 30% change this morning, followed by another set of doses, but i think my corals are all pretty much going to die at this point. No nitrites to speak of yet, but basically i figure im back to a first cycle, but with a fully loaded tank. A very expensive lesson in tank changeovers :-/

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[joshbrookkate]

Sorry to hear that....

[cvore2004]

Thanks. Looks like the second 30% change brought me down to 1-2ppm, and i dosed again. I think i might be better off putting some of the corals that look haggard, but are still alive in 5 gallon buckets with fresh mixed salt, but i dont know at this point. Unfortunately between school, work, and girlfriend who lives by the school and closer to work 25 miles away, im only home about every 4 days lately :-/

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[cvore2004]

Almost 2 weeks, 3 bottles of cycle in a bottle, addition of a canister with zeolite carbon mix, ammo-lock, 2 pieces of new live rock from my lfs, and 25% water changes every other day, and im still getting 6-8ppm ammonia! Im finally showing some nitrites and a small increase in nitrates, but im not sure what to do beyond what ive been trying.

I did a 50% change last night, and even after an hour i was still reading 6ppm. So i added another dose of fluval cycle and am thinking about doing another 50% change tomorrow. Does anyone have any additional advise?

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[cvore2004]

Well, it turns out i should have started with biospira.

I finally decided to just set up a secondary tank to at least save my fish. Set up a 20g long with 2 hydor 425 pumps, a spare heater, 60 gallon air pump and stone, 2 pieces of rock from the main tank, and 20lbs of live sand.

I figured even starting over with a really heavy bioload, my ammonia levels should be much easier to keep in check with water changes in a 20 gallon.

Initial: added prime
Hour 6: ammonia at .5, added Stability.
Hour 12: ammonia at 1, 25% wc, ammonia at .75, added prime
Hour 18: ammonia back up to 1, nitrites at 0, added biospira
Hour 24: ammonia still at 1, nitrites at 0.25, nitrates at 5
Hour 36: ammonia still at 1, nitrites at 0.5, added stability
Hour 48: ammonia at 0.5, nitrites at 0.25, nitrates at 10.

Main tank got a smaller dose of biospira gallon for gallon, but I've gotten everything i could save out and put it in the secondary tank. Ammonia levels are still off the chart.. like, tested water is almost black, not dark green, so im sure its around 12.

A very expensive lesson.

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[cvore2004]

Hmm, this is interesting, just about 2 months ago now I moved about 4 hours away and had to move my 55g freshwater planted, my 20g freshwater planted, and my 75g reef tank. I used a 55g food grade barrel to transport 55g of old saltwater and I made a mini aquarium with half of my sand and live rock and all my fish in a igloo 55qt cooler. Suffered zero casualties even though I stirred up the sand like crazy. But literally all my old sand and rock was used in the new aquarium. Did I just get lucky or what? Should you normally replace substrate when you move?
Guy at my lfs tells me its probably because i was relying too much on my diamond goby and nassareus snails, and not vacuuming my gravel enough.

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[ThRoewer]

Guy at my lfs tells me its probably because i was relying too much on my diamond goby and nassareus snails, and not vacuuming my gravel enough.

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Tell that guy to cut back the pot smoking...

[phc567]

^ hahahahaha. Puff puff pass