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View Full Version : Palythoas and Zoanthid on same rock?


Grimreaperz
09/26/2016, 10:51 PM
Okay so I have the flowing I purchased and am getting ready to transfer them from the plug to the rock.

Space Monsters palythoas
Utter Chaos palythoas
Rastas
Green Bay Packers
and these 2 I don't know the ID of the guy said Ring Of Fire and Flaming Sun. But not sure for they are palythoas or zoanthids

My question is does it really matter can I place them on the same rock and not have to worry about them killing each other off because they are similar enough?

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160927/004e8c01f6672d004771dee1793b62d0.jpg

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Pandagobyguy
09/26/2016, 11:08 PM
From what i have been told when you have zoas on a frag with others zoas eventually one will eliminate the other.

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Grimreaperz
09/26/2016, 11:54 PM
Awe really? So separate rock per type?

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A. Grandis
09/27/2016, 01:41 AM
Okay so I have the flowing I purchased and am getting ready to transfer them from the plug to the rock.

Space Monsters palythoas
Utter Chaos palythoas
Rastas
Green Bay Packers
and these 2 I don't know the ID of the guy said Ring Of Fire and Flaming Sun. But not sure for they are palythoas or zoanthids

My question is does it really matter can I place them on the same rock and not have to worry about them killing each other off because they are similar enough?

...

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Hit and miss.
If you want to put them on the same rock leave some space between them.
I don't see any problem.

Of course you need to know what species you're dealing with.
i don't care about cartoon names.

Grandis.

A. Grandis
09/27/2016, 01:42 AM
From what i have been told when you have zoas on a frag with others zoas eventually one will eliminate the other.

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Not necessarily true!

Grandis.

Grimreaperz
09/27/2016, 03:00 AM
Hit and miss.
If you want to put them on the same rock leave some space between them.
I don't see any problem.

Of course you need to know what species you're dealing with.
i don't care about cartoon names.

Grandis.
Here is a pic of everything.
I know Space Monsters and Utter Chaos are palythoas. Rastas are zoas and same with fruit loops. Any help for certain ID would be greatly appreciated as I'm not 100% on a couple. I wanted to put zoas all on one rock and Palys on another. I was going to glue one to one side of the rock and the other to the other side and hopefully they would meet in the middle somewhere and not kill eachother

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160927/1215320a8e0cf0e90c3019c7779f8718.jpg

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sde1500
09/27/2016, 07:40 AM
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160927/004e8c01f6672d004771dee1793b62d0.jpg


Top one looks like Blue Hornets

You can put a few types on the same rock, but I have heard as well some will be overgrown. I guess through some careful fragging you can keep that in check. I currently have 3 types on one rock in the front of my tank, utter chaos, rastas and a no namer. The no namer is growing off the original plug onto the rock much faster than the other two. I'll just pull the rock and trim it back eventually to keep it from overgrowing the other ones.

Grimreaperz
09/27/2016, 02:24 PM
Top one looks like Blue Hornets

You can put a few types on the same rock, but I have heard as well some will be overgrown. I guess through some careful fragging you can keep that in check. I currently have 3 types on one rock in the front of my tank, utter chaos, rastas and a no namer. The no namer is growing off the original plug onto the rock much faster than the other two. I'll just pull the rock and trim it back eventually to keep it from overgrowing the other ones.
Yeah that's what I was hoping to hear. But there not like other corals and will devastate something over night it would be a slower progress I could control with fragging? Which I will need to do anyways in a 36g

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spjames
09/27/2016, 09:10 PM
I have made zoa islands in the past from small pieces of rock and great stuff foam...

359024

Some zoas work well together and others don't. I have one rock which was beautiful until an ugly brown paly overgrew the entire rock :sad1:

You will have to test for yourself. But be sure to keep a mother colony of all of your zoas and then graft a polyp or two onto the rockwork to experiment.

A. Grandis
09/28/2016, 02:10 AM
Here is a pic of everything.
I know Space Monsters and Utter Chaos are palythoas. Rastas are zoas and same with fruit loops. Any help for certain ID would be greatly appreciated as I'm not 100% on a couple. I wanted to put zoas all on one rock and Palys on another. I was going to glue one to one side of the rock and the other to the other side and hopefully they would meet in the middle somewhere and not kill eachother

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160927/1215320a8e0cf0e90c3019c7779f8718.jpg

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It's so hard to see those blue pictures! :hmm4:

What I can see is that all zoanthids in that picture are Zoanthus. The only one that I'm not sure, because the picture is so blue, is the bottom far left. That could be a Palythoa, but I think it's a Zoanthus.

You can mix any of the Zoanthus without any problems. Just leave space so they can actually grow into colonies. Just choose the colors you like to grow together and go for it.

Grandis..

A. Grandis
09/28/2016, 02:16 AM
Yeah that's what I was hoping to hear. But there not like other corals and will devastate something over night it would be a slower progress I could control with fragging? Which I will need to do anyways in a 36g

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No, you don't "NEED" to do any fragging in any size system.
You do if you want to.
But yes, you could control a colony that way, if you wish.

There is absolutely no formula to be sure that such species WILL actually grow faster in any different type of system. The conditions are normally different from system to system and therefore we only have an idea of what zoas would have the POSSIBILITY to grow faster than others.

That's not something to go crazy about it.
As I've said, you can just frag them, if needed.
Just have fun!!:thumbsup:

Grandis.

A. Grandis
09/28/2016, 02:21 AM
I have made zoa islands in the past from small pieces of rock and great stuff foam...

359024

Some zoas work well together and others don't. I have one rock which was beautiful until an ugly brown paly overgrew the entire rock :sad1:

You will have to test for yourself. But be sure to keep a mother colony of all of your zoas and then graft a polyp or two onto the rockwork to experiment.

That is true only with the Zoanthus X Palythoa.
That COULD happen between Zoanthus X Zoanthus too, like for example some of the pink species... they indeed tend to overgrow other Zoanthus. Again, some have reported pink species that have slow growth. I actually have one particular pink Zoanthus that grows really slow and they are very similar to the other ones...

Good luck!

Grandis.

Grimreaperz
09/29/2016, 02:09 PM
foam....

But be sure to keep a mother colony of all of your zoas and then graft a polyp or two onto the rockwork to experiment.

Yeah that's what I was thinking! Just use a couple polyps and keep a mother colony.

Could I inquire as to exactly what foam you use. You saying you made an Island out of Foam has me very interested.


It's so hard to see those blue pictures! :hmm4:

What I can see is that all zoanthids in that picture are Zoanthus. The only one that I'm not sure, because the picture is so blue, is the bottom far left. That could be a Palythoa, but I think it's a Zoanthus.

You can mix any of the Zoanthus without any problems. Just leave space so they can actually grow into colonies. Just choose the colors you like to grow together and go for it.


Grandis..

Here is a white pic. On Fragbox.ca Utter Chaos and Space Monsters are listed as Palythoa. Which is what both of these are

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160929/d5cbdeab880ea35b8d180d6709b557d2.jpg

Here is a pic of them all under white

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160929/0fede485c03431bcf82f30eb9f50f57d.jpg
I have made zoa islands in the past from small pieces of rock and great stuff foam...

359024

Some zoas work well together and others don't. I have one rock which was beautiful until an ugly brown paly overgrew the entire rock :sad1:

You will have to test for yourself. But be sure to keep a mother colony of all of your zoas and then graft a polyp or two onto the rockwork to experiment.

It's so hard to see those blue pictures! :hmm4:

What I can see is that all zoanthids in that picture are Zoanthus. The only one that I'm not sure, because the picture is so blue, is the bottom far left. That could be a Palythoa, but I think it's a Zoanthus.

You can mix any of the Zoanthus without any problems. Just leave space so they can actually grow into colonies. Just choose the colors you like to grow together and go for it.

Grandis..


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A. Grandis
09/29/2016, 05:32 PM
Now I can see better... All ok to mix.
No Palythoas there!
Don't even think about fragging those polyps now. Let them grow into a colony...
Don't worry, just leave a space around and go for it.

Grandis.

spjames
09/30/2016, 08:05 AM
Yeah that's what I was thinking! Just use a couple polyps and keep a mother colony.

Could I inquire as to exactly what foam you use. You saying you made an Island out of Foam has me very interested.

Sorry, let me clarify...I use small pieces of rock and "Great Stuff - Gaps & Cracks" foam (made by Dow) to connect them together and fill in the gaps. You need a few rocks in the structure to weigh the foam down or it will float away ! But you can sculpt the foam with a knife into whatever shapes you want once it has cured.

Here's another example just after gluing the polpys down...
359108
This island has quite a bit of foam in it.

FYI, I don't think it would be a problem to carefully cut a couple of polyps off your bigger colonies (the 10+ polyp ones) with a scalpel. Just be sure to follow all the safety protocols, ie. gloves, glasses etc.

Grimreaperz
09/30/2016, 02:15 PM
Sorry, let me clarify...I use small pieces of rock and "Great Stuff - Gaps & Cracks" foam (made by Dow) to connect them together and fill in the gaps. You need a few rocks in the structure to weigh the foam down or it will float away ! But you can sculpt the foam with a knife into whatever shapes you want once it has cured.

Here's another example just after gluing the polpys down...
359108
This island has quite a bit of foam in it.

FYI, I don't think it would be a problem to carefully cut a couple of polyps off your bigger colonies (the 10+ polyp ones) with a scalpel. Just be sure to follow all the safety protocols, ie. gloves, glasses etc.
Awesome yeah I got a bunch of rubble in a bucket. And will be taking some of the uglier rock I have and putting it in my Fuge so I would love to make an Island!

Yeah that's what I was thinking the Rastas and Blue hornets seem ready to frag a couple and the Green Bay Packers. As far as space Monsters Utter Chaos and fruit loops I will be waiting until they pop more polyps.


Now I can see better... All ok to mix.
No Palythoas there!
Don't even think about fragging those polyps now. Let them grow into a colony...
Don't worry, just leave a space around and go for it.

Grandis.
Awesome thank you so much. It's weird that the place selling them has them mislabeled but I guess that's how it goes in this hobby

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reef thief
09/30/2016, 02:41 PM
Youre good. When they meet they will stop advancing and possibly mix

A. Grandis
09/30/2016, 06:38 PM
...

Awesome thank you so much. It's weird that the place selling them has them mislabeled but I guess that's how it goes in this hobby

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You're welcome!
Well, anyone can call the zoas whatever they want nowadays. It's a mess...
Besides, that's the normal names they give to some of the Zoanthus. That is actually what they truly believe they are and "everybody" believes that too... They can't help it anymore. The cartoon names went way too far.
:wildone:

Grandis.

Grimreaperz
09/30/2016, 08:04 PM
You're welcome!
Well, anyone can call the zoas whatever they want nowadays. It's a mess...
Besides, that's the normal names they give to some of the Zoanthus. That is actually what they truly believe they are and "everybody" believes that too... They can't help it anymore. The cartoon names went way too far.
:wildone:

Grandis.
Yeah it's confusing as heck for a beginner!

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spjames
09/30/2016, 08:25 PM
I agree, the naming is a complete mess but you can understand it considering that it is driven by profit motives...sadly, "firey inferno from Hell" sounds much more marketable than "red-yellow zoa". The other inconvenient issue is these things can morph so the lines between named zoas/palys can blur real fast.

A. Grandis
09/30/2016, 09:23 PM
Yeah it's confusing as heck for a beginner!

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Oh well, It's not only for beginners!!!
The mess is because they aren't actually related at all to their scientific names.
They are only market nick names, as I call "cartoon names".

There is no remedies to all that and it's a snow ball.
It gets worse when many think they really know about zoanthids and brag on those stupid names. I feel sorry for those.
Cartoon names are only a market strategy and will survive because people sustain the practice.

Grandis.

A. Grandis
09/30/2016, 09:25 PM
I agree, the naming is a complete mess but you can understand it considering that it is driven by profit motives...sadly, "firey inferno from Hell" sounds much more marketable than "red-yellow zoa". The other inconvenient issue is these things can morph so the lines between named zoas/palys can blur real fast.

Actually they love to use the "morph" to invent more fake "rare" species.
Yep, it's all about money!!!

Grandis.

Grimreaperz
09/30/2016, 09:28 PM
Oh well, It's not only for beginners!!!
The mess is because they aren't actually related at all to their scientific names.
They are only market nick names, as I call "cartoon names".

There is no remedies to all that and it's a snow ball.
It gets worse when many think they really know about zoanthids and brag on those stupid names. I feel sorry for those.
Carton names are only a market strategy and will survive because people sustain the practice.

Grandis.
I understand the need for cartoon names. As Blue hornets look nothing like Utter Chaos and just calling both zoathnthids is pretty lame to the person who bred them. But I think they should all still have the correct scientific name as well.

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A. Grandis
09/30/2016, 09:44 PM
I understand the need for cartoon names. As Blue hornets look nothing like Utter Chaos and just calling both zoathnthids is pretty lame to the person who bred them. But I think they should all still have the correct scientific name as well.

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Yeah, I get that.
One of the HUGE problems is that we actually don't know their scientific names.
:eek1:

That's why the cartoon names were invented in the first place.
The vendors wanted to make more money and decided to start the strategy.
Looong ago they used to sell rocks of zoas. With the advance of the hobby, through the years, the need of labeling the zoas for easier faster profit came. I understand that it was probably inevitable and had to happen. I get all that.
But the truth is that it is all about money nowadays.

1 to 3 polyp heads on a white plug. Are you kidding me?

If one day I decide to get into selling Hawaiian zoanthids I would use pictures only and do a WYSIWYG on a web site, I guess.
I don't know anymore if I could use rocks to sell them 'cause people are so used to by those tiny plugs. LOL!!!

This is not to fire the market, but this is just the truth spoken.

Grandis. :thumbsup:

Grimreaperz
10/04/2016, 03:43 AM
Yeah, I get that.
One of the HUGE problems is that we actually don't know their scientific names.
:eek1:

That's why the cartoon names were invented in the first place.
The vendors wanted to make more money and decided to start the strategy.
Looong ago they used to sell rocks of zoas. With the advance of the hobby, through the years, the need of labeling the zoas for easier faster profit came. I understand that it was probably inevitable and had to happen. I get all that.
But the truth is that it is all about money nowadays.

1 to 3 polyp heads on a white plug. Are you kidding me?

If one day I decide to get into selling Hawaiian zoanthids I would use pictures only and do a WYSIWYG on a web site, I guess.
I don't know anymore if I could use rocks to sell them 'cause people are so used to by those tiny plugs. LOL!!!

This is not to fire the market, but this is just the truth spoken.

Grandis. [emoji106]
Yeah I really do wish I could see the market say 20 years ago and just the differences in opinions than we have now. Me being a newbie. This is the norm. Wouldn't know better unless told otherwise. That being said. I have sourced all mine locally and didn't pay over 25$ per plug. Most of which came with 5+ polyps. Few rarer coming with 2-3. Cartoon market good price.


Old school price I wouldn't have a clue...

I am glad I am getting in now with all the advancements in the tech side of the hobby though minus the cost side of course lol [emoji12]

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A. Grandis
10/04/2016, 04:02 AM
Yeah I really do wish I could see the market say 20 years ago and just the differences in opinions than we have now. Me being a newbie. This is the norm. Wouldn't know better unless told otherwise. That being said. I have sourced all mine locally and didn't pay over 25$ per plug. Most of which came with 5+ polyps. Few rarer coming with 2-3. Cartoon market good price.


Old school price I wouldn't have a clue...

I am glad I am getting in now with all the advancements in the tech side of the hobby though minus the cost side of course lol [emoji12]

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I believe another way you could try is to exchange zoas with the members of our local reef club.

Aloha,
Grandis.

Grimreaperz
10/04/2016, 04:56 AM
I believe another way you could try is to exchange zoas with the members of our local reef club.

Aloha,
Grandis.
Yeah I live in canada. Near Vancouver. The exchange rate is horrible and not worth the hassle shipping when I can buy a few frags to get started from locals and then begin trading. Once I have the ability to frag what I have. Not to mention the reef scene where I live is me and maybe 1 other guy....need to drive to 1+hrs (Vancouver) just for a decent fish/supplies store. It also where I obtain most of my corals from ppl in that area. So me paying 25 for a 3 polyp from a guy in van is a lot better then paying 25/polyp plus 40+$ shipping on top of that.

Everyone needs to start somewhere....can't trade when you have nothing lol.

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A. Grandis
10/04/2016, 01:33 PM
Yeah I live in canada. Near Vancouver. The exchange rate is horrible and not worth the hassle shipping when I can buy a few frags to get started from locals and then begin trading. Once I have the ability to frag what I have. Not to mention the reef scene where I live is me and maybe 1 other guy....need to drive to 1+hrs (Vancouver) just for a decent fish/supplies store. It also where I obtain most of my corals from ppl in that area. So me paying 25 for a 3 polyp from a guy in van is a lot better then paying 25/polyp plus 40+$ shipping on top of that.

Everyone needs to start somewhere....can't trade when you have nothing lol.

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:thumbsup: