Peer Review my QT Tank / Ich Removal Plans - Please and Thank You!

[Dukie585]

I'm looking for some guidance on setting up my first QT tank. It's a bit different of a situation because I will simultaneously be setting up a new tank and making my current tank a QT tank.

First, let me explain my situation.

At the moment, I'm rocking a 46 bow front with a Eshopp 15gal nano sump/fuge. I added a yellow tang to my tank ~2 months ago. He was happy and healthy after a few days and seemed to get along well with all the other tank inhabitants.

I left for a 4 day vacation last weekend and when I came back he was very skinny, and the other day I noticed he had white dots all over him. After some research and making sure it wasn't just sand... I've determined that it is Ich. I've started soaking food in garlic to get him to eat more and naturally boost his immune system so he'll survive until my new tank is set up and established.

My plan is to set up and establish my new reef tank, move all my LR that has coral (~40% of the LR) and inverts over to the new tank, and then remove my sand bed from my current tank. After that, I'm going to treat all the fish with a high salinity and ich medication combo for a month or 2 before I move them over to the new tank. Once everyone is moved into the new tank, I'm going to move my 46 bow front upstairs to my water room as a quarantine tank. I'm not sure yet if I'll keep it up full time, or just when it's needed for sick/new fish.

Any advice or guidance is greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

[Taahirs]

Ich is treated with hyposalinity not high salinity. Hyposalinity is extremely low salinity of 1.009. You need to make sure you keep it here at all times.

An easier way would be to use the tank transfer method, can even just use Buckets.


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[dweber618]

After moving the old rock and sand into the new tank, it should remain fishless for a minimum of 72 days, before you add the fish back into the new set up.

Its generally accepted that 72 is the safe time frame for any remaining ich cysts that may be on the rock/sand will hatch and die after not finding a host (fish) to complete the life cycle.

Also - not sure what "ich medication" you will be using - but most of them are all bogus. As Taahirs stated - tank transfer method is a really good method to have your best chance at success.

[Dukie585]

Thanks for the correction I meant hypo salinity, not high.

Can you explain in more detail what you're talking about with the tank transfer method or bucket?

[Dukie585]

I'm not transferring my sand bed to the new tank. It's a fine grain sand that kicks up too easily so I'm going to a larger grain size sand. I'm going to set up my new tank and start the fishless cycle which I was expecting to take ~2 months anyway. After the cycle is complete, only then am I going to move over corals and inverts.

My current tank, the 46 bow front, will be the bare bottom QT that the fish will stay in with hypo-salinity for 2 months. If that alone is enough to kill the ich, then I will probably just do that and avoid the ich medication all together. 1 less thing to stress the fish in my mind. Most ich medications require the protein skimmer to be turned off, which isn't something I was a big fan of to begin with.

I've seen that copper based medications seem to be the way people go for treating ich in a tank without invert/corals.

[dweber618]

From my experience, I've tried hypo and it didn't work. If you are going to go that route - make sure you have a calibrated refractometer to make sure your salinity reading is accurate.

Some people use copper, I avoid it as, even in small amounts, it is harmful to fish.

Tank Transfer Method (TTM) works by interrupting the life cycle of ich. You need two of every piece of equipment (tank, heather, powerhead/airstone, PVC pipe). That sounds daunting, but I got two 10 gallon tanks at Petco's $1/gallon sale, a couple small heaters, and cheap powerheads, and that is all you need. Prime is good to have on hand in case of ammonia spikes.

Every 3 days you transfer your fish to a brand new tank for a total of 12 days.

Here is a really good article that breaks down the method and answers some common questions.

http://www.tanktransfermethod.com/node/1

[Mishri]

yeah you can't do hypo and copper.. you'll kill your fish. so just hypo will be fine.

TTM you move the fish to new/clean tanks or buckets every few days, interrupting ich's life cycle.

if you want to do the fishless cycle then go for it.. but inverts/corals don't produce much ammonia at all.. you'll build up a fat collection of bacteria that will starve with not enough ammonia. I would move inverts/corals to a completely uncycled tank as long as I then added new fish very slowly to the system(depending on water volume and amount of sand/rock)

Even if you do a fishless cycle, then move corals/inverts over and aren't adding ammonia, soon you'll lose the bacteria to the point where you still need to add fish very slowly. (It actually doesn't take long for bacteria to build up if you have a lot of live rock.. so I say slowly meaning a 1-3 fish(depending on tank size and type of fish) every couple of weeks.. just watch ammonia/nitrite/nitrate, ammonia for the entire tank's sake, and nitrite/nitrate for corals)

and since your corals are on rocks that are already housing most of your beneficial bacteria, there really isn't a good reason to do a fishless cycle to the tank that I can think of.

[Mishri]

with ttm I've heard of multiple people with problems.. I'm not sure if it's because they were able to scrape up one in the egg stage and transfer it with the fish to the new tank, or a strain that was able to hatch in less than 72 hours. maybe a strain that can encyst for longer on a fish.... survive longer as a free swimmer... There are quite a few studies on it but none done in awhile... Most people refer to a 1997 study. I'm not sure if life cycles can change that easily with parasites like this... or if we are encountering a new strain from the wild that wasn't in that study. But it seems like I hear of more people with problems lately with it. When it should be bullet proof(as long as everything is completely dry in the new tank).. they shouldn't be able to have a free swimmer after the 1st move, so you shouldn't be able to cross contaminate. I've heard the people who have failed with it swear they either had equipment completely dry for a full day or had all new equipment for each move.

[Dukie585]

Thanks for all the info. Based on what I've heard here and what I've continued to find online I think I'm going to stick with hypo only once I convert my current DT to a QT.

Also, as far as ammonia in the new tank goes... I've got a few pieces of dead rock that I'm not curing. They've been completely dry for over 8 months, and I've left them in the sun for a few weeks as well. There is plenty of dead matter on those rocks to supply the tank with ammonia. I'm also seeding with some live rock from my current tank and I will be ghost feeding the tank as well. Plenty of ammonia to get things rolling.

I'm increasing my total water volume by about 3.5 times moving to my new tank.

Once I get my sand bed and coral/inverts out of my current tank and drop the salinity to 1.009, should I keep a good amount of live rock in the tank? I was thinking about only taking the ones with corals out to protect the corals, but also to keep hiding places for the fish so they don't get stressed as well as still house the beneficial bacteria I'll need for my tank to thrive. I'm worried if I take out 90% of my live rock I'll effectively be removing most of the beneficial bacteria. Will my live rock be effected at all by the hypo-salinity?

[Mishri]

hypo will kill everything living on the rocks, the beneficial bacteria should live through hypo though. so i'd only leave it in there if there aren't any worms/pods/algae or anything else living in it. You could run into an ammonia spike.

[alprazo]

If the only thing you worry about is Ich than tank transfer is fine. It treats nothing else. Hypo has its failures with ich and is a poor treatment option for worms, pods, flukes, velvet etc.

[ReefTeacher]

I have had good luck with TTM on small fish, but on larger fish I have had less success, and have lost more than I like in the process.

Right now, I use CP on larger fish, especially tangs, if they show crypt. It also treats other things as well. I am not sure, but I suspect it might be their high oxygen demands that create problems with TTM.

[Dukie585]

Thanks everyone who gave me advise earlier. I'm back with a revised plan...

For TTM, could/should I use a bacteria kick-starter to make the water column more stable and help avoid amonia spikes in the QT tanks?

I'm pretty sure I've ruled out the TTM for the sole reason that I have too much livestock for this method (in my opinion). 2 clowns, wrasse, 2 basslets, yellow tang, and a chromis. The Wrasse and tang won't do well in small / overcrowded tanks I'd get for the TTM. I'm worried the overcrowding will stress them out too much on top of the constant moving between tanks.

So, I'm left with hypo or copper. From everything I've seen online I'm very torn between which of these methods I want to do. From what I've read, copper seems to be more effective but harder on the fish.... I'm leaning towards copper but I've heard that you can't use the tank for anything other than a QT after using copper once. Is this true, even though I'm removing my sand bed, rock, inverts, and carbon before starting this treatment? I'm using SeaChem's Cupramine with is removable via carbon once the treatment is complete, which I will use along with water changed to remove all the left over copper.

Regardless of which, the plan is relatively the same. I'm going to remove all the sand, rock, and inverts from my current DT (46gal) and move them to my cycling new DT (150gal) that I will be setting up in a few days. I'm going to let it cycle for a few days using a bacteria kick-started, seeded rock from my current tank, and ghost feeding since all my fish have Ich. I know the Ich is going to move over to the new DT with the rock, but I'm going to leave it fish-less for 2 months so it should all die off without any host.

So, hit me with your criticisms. I've still got a few days before I get the ball rolling on this and I want to make sure my plan is vetted before moving forward. Any feedback is greatly appreciated!