The next level! 65g SPS

[Greentree]

Greetings Reef Central!

I started my tank July 2015, FOWLR. Once that was stable and I was confident I could try something new, I bought a set of radions and picked up a few zoas and hammer coral. A few months later, a Hollywood stunner, acans, and a favia.

Things went so-so, it took me a bit to get my nitrates under control (Marine pure ceramic biomedia plate in the sump did the trick) and I picked up a birdsnest. It died, so I made some adjustments - another powerhead, more water changes. Picked up a more advanced test kit. Params all seemed ok, however I was growing hair algae like it was my job. Corals were stable but not growing. Picked up another birdsnest and an a mille. Both slowly died, and I was super confused.

Had my water tested at the LFS and learned that my phosphates were at .6! Eek! The only thing I didn't have a test for at home. Added a phosban reactor with GFO. Slowly brought phosphates down, they hover between .03 and .09. I feed frozen often for my anthias and I believe this is the cause, but I haven't cut it down because everything seems to be ok and hair algae slowly went away.

I've since picked up a few more birdsnests and a few tiny acro frags, they were doing well to I kept adding more SPS. Started dosing Alk (1 oz/day) since that was the only thing that was being consumed at a noticeable level. Finally things took off :) I had to get rid of my Hollywood stunner because it took over. Birdsnests are growing like weeds. Acros are encrusting their bases nicely and all polyps are open and fluffy.

I think it's time to take things to the next level! What would your next move be? I'm serious about my tank and I really want to start aiming higher - more colors, growth, overall health, stability, redundancies, etc.

Here are my stats:

[Greentree]

65g reef tank - 38 x 18 x 24

20g sump
Marine pure ceramic biomedia plate (8x8x4)
PhosBan Reactor150
Skimmer: Bubble Magus NAC7
Powerheads: Jabao pp-8
Pump: Mag 10
Lighting: Radion XR15Pro x 2

Lubbocks Wrasse
Canary Wrasse
Lawnmower blenny
Red belt anthias
Lyretail anthias x 2
Ignitus anthias
Purple queen anthias
Blue/green chromis x 3
Mandarin Dragonet

Params:
Ca 420 ppm (no dosing yet)
Alk 10.5 dKH (1oz two part Alk -soda ash daily, manually)
sg = 1.026
Temperature 82° F
pH 8.0
Mg 1400 ppm
PO4 0.09 ppm
NH3 0 ppm
NO2 0 ppm
NO3 0 ppm

[Greentree]

I need to take some decent pics.

[Greentree]

One more cell phone pic

[Greentree]

Any advice is much appreciated. I did notice that a frag I put in a few days ago seems to be losing flesh at the base pretty quickly. It's definitely in a lesser flow area. Any thoughts? I have a Hawkins echinata near it - should they have more flow?

[Greentree]

Hi guys - Over the last few days I've been noticing less polyp extension than usual. Checked the params, everything remains unchanged. This morning I woke up to my raspberry tabling acro sliming in one area that and the flesh looks whitish and puffy. Any thoughts? Please help!

[Greentree]

One more pic... Sorry for the quality.

[Y-Diver]

Your alk looks a little high to me... Typical is around 8.5-9.0

Make sure there is plenty of random flow.

What is your light cycle?

[Greentree]

Thank you so much for the input.

I do think it's time to add another powerhead- I'll pick one up and set 2of the 3 on alternating timers.

I've read that pushing the Alk to the higher end can improve growth, but I don't really see that many successful SPS keepers do so. Is this the reason? I did a water change after taking these pics. I'll wait until it drops to 9 and then start dosing again at an adjusted rate.

See attached for my lighting specs. Any feedback is much appreciated, it's an area that I feel especially uneducated.

[Greentree]

Update - The coral has settled down a bit.

[Mr.Fishtank]

You got a nice setup there.

How high off the water are you radions? Running them at 80% is really high. Especially if the corals were not acclimated very slowly to that intensity. When I ran radions over my 90 gallon i had them 9 inches above the water and the max intensity after using the acclimation mode was only 55%. I used the radiant color preset and really loved the colors that I was getting out of my corals. Growth was slow but I could have increase the intensity of the lights by 5-10% more to get a little better growth. Ecotech also has a newer schedule called AB+ and alot of people are using that with great results. But what ever you do I would turn them down some. JMO

[Flanders]

I've read that pushing the Alk to the higher end can improve growth, but I don't really see that many successful SPS keepers do so.

Higher alk doesn't seem to play well with with ULNS systems and carbon dosing. But other than that, reefkeepers have been running high alk for many years for the reason you stated successfully. If you are at 10.5 dkh with good results, I wouldn't worry about it. If you continue to have issues, you might try gradually lowering it.

[Greentree]

You got a nice setup there.

How high off the water are you radions?

Thanks Mr.Fish! My radions are pretty close - 5 inches. I took time to ramp up when I first got them, but I can't say I take much care to acclimate new corals to the intensity.

That actually brings me to a new question. I have a tabling acre for which I do not have an ID. It's low/middlish in the tank but centered. I added it about 3 weeks aco and I've finally noticed that it appears to be slightly bleaching where it's getting most light. How long does bleaching take? Should I move this guy down and over?

[Greentree]

Higher alk doesn't seem to play well with with ULNS systems and carbon dosing. But other than that, reefkeepers have been running high alk for many years for the reason you stated successfully. If you are at 10.5 dkh with good results, I wouldn't worry about it. If you continue to have issues, you might try gradually lowering it.

Ah, thank you for that reply. I did let it fall a bit, more than I meant to in fact - in about a week it dropped to 8.5. I'm bringing it up slowly. Calcium is down to 375 finally (glad to see its being used!) so I'll mix up the solution and start dosing that tomorrow.

Do you think this drop in Kh could have caused the issue with the coral mentioned above?

[milsaltnewbie07]

Hello and welcome to the sps addiction.. That is a sweet little set up. As far as changea, you have to ask yourself what do you want most growth/ok color or... Color/ok growth. If you want faster growth, then yes you would run high alk/high nutrients/hight lights. For the most part these systems have amazing growth and ok colors. Now the next system is a low alk, typically in the 6.7-8. If you choose to run thia low, then you should stride for undetectable nutrients to very low. Most of these System are Zeo, aquaforest , prodibio etc. I my self as well as most people here run this type of system or ULNS. Reefers like Perry, Biggles, Mark, and Matt all have very very low nutrients and keep alk arround 6.7 - mid 7s. From what i can see from your parameters, your alk is kinda high since u have 0 nitrates. If you choose to stay this high, then raising your nitrates is a must. Try to always aim form higher nitrates than phosphates. Good luck
Jorge

[Greentree]

Oh wow, that is a extremely helpful, thank you! That's a tough decision. I feel like since everything is so small and I'd like to grow out the colonies I have, I'd lean towards growth. Once things are grown out a bit, could I then shift to an ULNS? What are your thoughts on that?

Also, how does one raise nitrates without messing up phosphates? I've always struggled with phosphates but have never had detectable levels of nitrates.

Should I be feeding corals or using other additives for the coral's benefit?

I have so many questions! I feel like I've read everything on this forum and it just makes me want to ask even more :) Thank you all for your input, it is greatly appreciated.

[milsaltnewbie07]

Oh wow, that is a extremely helpful, thank you! That's a tough decision. I feel like since everything is so small and I'd like to grow out the colonies I have, I'd lean towards growth. Once things are grown out a bit, could I then shift to an ULNS? What are your thoughts on that?

Also, how does one raise nitrates without messing up phosphates? I've always struggled with phosphates but have never had detectable levels of nitrates.

Should I be feeding corals or using other additives for the coral's benefit?

I have so many questions! I feel like I've read everything on this forum and it just makes me want to ask even more :) Thank you all for your input, it is greatly appreciated.
You can raise nitrates in several ways. Feeding more is one, but you risk raising phosphates. I think the easiest way is to dose some sort of nitrate additive. I have used
Spectrazide tree stomp remover. This works wonders and is super cheap. There is a write up out there on how to use it safely. As far asyour question on how to run your tank, idk. I have never had any luck with high alk, so i stay away from it. But if it works for you then go for it.

[milsaltnewbie07]

http://www.*********.com/threads/new-experiment-nitrate-dosing-with-spectracide-stump-remover.218866/

Change the xxxxxxxx for r e e f 2 r e e f . Since i can post the link here

[Greentree]

Very cool! Looks like it's a version of this? http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=9904&cmpid=03cseYY&gclid=CLfn3anu-88CFQeQaQodP5sMHQ

[Piper27]

I would love to see a front tank shot if you can post one. The white strands are filaments, could be from a feeding response. I get them everytime I feed on certain acropora. Some say they see them when the acros are irritated, not sure what would irritate acros to make filaments come out though.

[Greentree]

I don't have a recent full tank shot and the lights are out, but here's a few others. I feel like it looks like a frag tank :( things are just small and scattered. I'm going to bring the giant wellso and two big hammer corals in soon to get rid of more LPS.

[Greentree]

Pic

[Greentree]

Pic 2

[supscribe]

5" off the water seems awefully close but I suppose if your not running them at 100% should be ok

[Greentree]

5" off the water seems awefully close but I suppose if your not running them at 100% should be ok

Yeah, I think I need to rethink my lighting situation. I'm going to do more research on schedules/intensity/etc that people are having success with and make adjustments.

[Greentree]

I finally found something better than a phone to take pics with. I stirred up my sandbed before these so excuse the cloudiness.

[Greentree]

More

[Greentree]

Pics

[Greentree]

Red dragon that I seem to bump into and 'frag' every day. Luckily it grows like a weed.

[ClownReef®]

Green,

For pictures you can use a yellow filter. It will tone down the blue a lot.

Also sign up for a photobucket account :) It will make posting pictures a bit easier..

Hope this helps!

[Flanders]

Ah, thank you for that reply. I did let it fall a bit, more than I meant to in fact - in about a week it dropped to 8.5. I'm bringing it up slowly. Calcium is down to 375 finally (glad to see its being used!) so I'll mix up the solution and start dosing that tomorrow.

Do you think this drop in Kh could have caused the issue with the coral mentioned above?

Yes.

[Greentree]

Thanks Flanders! I think my manual dosing just isn't cutting it, I'm going to pick up an auto doser to keep things stable. Jebao perhaps.

Clown - thank you so much for that tip. I read up on how to adjust the white balance too - helped a lot!

I turned the intensity down to 70% and switched to the Coral Radiance preset schedule. Oh, and signed up for photobucket ;)

<a href="http://s48.photobucket.com/user/antatreau/media/image_zpsbiohvwko.jpeg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f207/antatreau/image_zpsbiohvwko.jpeg" border="0" alt=" photo image_zpsbiohvwko.jpeg"/></a>

[ClownReef®]

Do you like your Radion? Im running a Mitras on my 60 gal cube and it's a pretty high tech fixture and not very user friendly (the interface kinda sucks and it's PC only).

[NeilFox]

Very nice Greentree, I really like the Red Planet

[Greentree]

Do you like your Radion? Im running a Mitras on my 60 gal cube and it's a pretty high tech fixture and not very user friendly (the interface kinda sucks and it's PC only).

I like it so much! It's really easy to understand and I appreciate that there are quite a few preset schedules to choose from or it would be tricky to know where to start if you're pretty new (like me). I like that I can toggle through each setting and see what they'll look like at different times of the day.

I also like the easy acclimation feature and how easy it is to tweak the photoperiod, etc. I'd definitely give it an A+.

Very nice Greentree, I really like the Red Planet

Thank you Neil!

[ClownReef®]

You corals do look beautiful..

[Greentree]

Thanks Clown - hoping to pick up a nice piece of strawberry shortcake this weekend. Fingers crossed!

[Greentree]

I have another question. I did the calculation for the amount of 2 part calcium solution to add and it seems like a lot. 6.7 oz to raise 65 gallons from 370ppm to 400ppm? Raising the Kh from 8 to 9 required 1.5 oz. I know these are completely different solutions, but I just want to make sure before I mess something up :)

I'm going to manually add 1 oz per day until I reach 400ppm, and then watch to see how much the system is utilizing daily. Any and all feedback is much appreciated - thanks again everyone!

[ClownReef®]

I have another question. I did the calculation for the amount of 2 part calcium solution to add and it seems like a lot. 6.7 oz to raise 65 gallons from 370ppm to 400ppm? Raising the Kh from 8 to 9 required 1.5 oz. I know these are completely different solutions, but I just want to make sure before I mess something up :)

I'm going to manually add 1 oz per day until I reach 400ppm, and then watch to see how much the system is utilizing daily. Any and all feedback is much appreciated - thanks again everyone!

Green,

Take it super super slow. I increased alkalinity quick and my pink birds nest started to STN. I would increase by a few ml. every other day until you reach your target.

I dose B-Ionic and went from the recommended 15 ml. each a day to 20 of alk and 30 of calcium. Just test and find that sweet spot.

A lot of coral don't like the drastic swing of alkalinity and PH.

Just be a bit careful :)

[Greentree]

Thanks for the tip! Ive been increasing my dosing very gradually.

I just got home from being out of town for the weekend. I'm seeing that it's losing flesh in odd areas - between the branches. Is this a flow issue? Is it too late to save it? Please help!

Excuse the iPhone pic, I wanted to show the tissue loss.

[ClownReef®]

I really think it's an alk issue. Im going through the same. Alkalinity is a killer if it swings too much. Im thinking about adding a calcium reactor to get rid of the dosing/dialing issue.

All other parameters check out? Keep a log of your dosing/tests..

[Greentree]

Other params are all stable. So frustrating! I did pick up and install a doser, hopefully things will stay in check. The acro looks worse, but everything else seems happy.

[Greentree]

Things are still looking good with the exception of that one coral. I picked up that piece of strawberry shortcake - it's beautiful!

[milsaltnewbie07]

Tank is looking pretty good. Any reason you turned down the light? I mean did you see any bleaching or burnt corals. Back when I ran LEDS in a similar size tank I could never get the lights above 60% on blue channels and 35% on whites. If I did , I would see my sps getting really light and bleach. So I learned really quick that lowers, was always better for me. Even when it looked like tank as dim to the eye, tank was getting plenty of light.
For your pics, get and app called photodirector. It makes editing so easy. It has Auto WB, so you phone pics come out way better. :) good luck

[Greentree]

I did bleach one acro. I moved it to lower light, and it still started STN'ing on the areas with the most bleaching. I had a bit of a alk swing too and it seems like the combination of the two things was just too much. :'(

I still might turn them down even more - it seems that most reefers don't see a benefit to that intensity with radions, but there are many instances where it causes damage.

[Greentree]

I'm also struggling to bring up nitrates and phosphates. I see a bit of tip damage and I worry that I'm running my alk too high with the low nutrients. I think I've been feeding too little because I used to have a high phosphate issue, so I'm going to feed a lot more, and if that doesn't do it I'll supplement them.

[Greentree]

Oh, and MEET EVE ❤️❤️❤️
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f207/antatreau/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_0108_zpsgqt5yiwf.png (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/antatreau/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_0108_zpsgqt5yiwf.png.html)

[milsaltnewbie07]

I'm also struggling to bring up nitrates and phosphates. I see a bit of tip damage and I worry that I'm running my alk too high with the low nutrients. I think I've been feeding too little because I used to have a high phosphate issue, so I'm going to feed a lot more, and if that doesn't do it I'll supplement them.

What is your alk and calc now? Did you start dosing nitrates already?

[Greentree]

I was keeping it at 10 and decided do slowly drop it to 9.5, however it dropped faster than I expected and within about a week went from 10 to 8.9ish. I brought it back up to 9.5 over another week and it's been fluctuating between 9.5 and 10 as I try to get the hang of my new dosing system. Ca fluctuates between 400 and 420 as well, really trying to get things completely stable is my highest priority at the moment.

I might decide to slowly lower it to 8.5 or 9 again until I can get some nitrates and phosphates on the chart. I have not started dosing nitrates, I'm going to start feeding more to see if that'll do it (because I should be feeding more anyway), then dose if it still seems necessary.

[reefmutt]

Hey greentree,welcome to the sps roller coaster.
Eve and the coral she resides in are beautiful.
You have a really nice set up and some good looking corals.
I wonder why you are trying to push parameters. Why not aim for natural seawater parameters?
You can't go wrong with what Mother Nature intended,imo.
I think if you raised your lights a bit, you'd get better spread and less bleaching..
If I were you, I'd add another small fish or two to raise nutrients a bit. And some more snails. As nutrients go up a bit, so will algea growth. It would be good to have the snails in there and on the ready.
More fish, more algea and more snails will translate into some good nutrients for the corals.
And that foster you mentioned makes good sense. Easier to maintain stable levels and keeps you from getting so crazy about testing and dosing manually. Once you have your doser dialed in relatively well, you can rest less frequently and make small adjustments to dosing.
Looking forward to your progress!

[Greentree]

Hi Matt, thank you for the kind words. I absolutely adore Eve, what a special surprise. I'm going to try to target feed her some little treats.

You're probably right, I'm not sure why I'm trying to push things - I was reading some articles with experiments and I thought that it was probably the best thing to do. I've changed my mind. I do think I'll raise my lights tonight, that's a good idea.

I've been looking for an excuse to pick up another fish or two. I was trying an experiment where I added 5 anthias, each one a different variety, to see if it would confuse them enough to reduce aggression. It has been a huge success so far! I might choose another two.

[milsaltnewbie07]

Hey greentree,welcome to the sps roller coaster.
Eve and the coral she resides in are beautiful.
You have a really nice set up and some good looking corals.
I wonder why you are trying to push parameters. Why not aim for natural seawater parameters?
You can't go wrong with what Mother Nature intended,imo.
I think if you raised your lights a bit, you'd get better spread and less bleaching..
If I were you, I'd add another small fish or two to raise nutrients a bit. And some more snails. As nutrients go up a bit, so will algea growth. It would be good to have the snails in there and on the ready.
More fish, more algea and more snails will translate into some good nutrients for the corals.
And that foster you mentioned makes good sense. Easier to maintain stable levels and keeps you from getting so crazy about testing and dosing manually. Once you have your doser dialed in relatively well, you can rest less frequently and make small adjustments to dosing.
Looking forward to your progress!

I second Matts opinion. Listen to him, he has tons of experience and a gorgeous tank. Im so afraid of those high alk numbers, i just have no luck with them. I would slowly bring everything down to natural salt levels alk 7-8 calcium 390-420 mag 1280-1300s. I promise you your tank will look way better. Also add another fish , just as Matt said. Good luck
Jorge

[Greentree]

Thank you so much, I really appreciate the advice. I raised my lights 4 more inches. Would you do more?
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f207/antatreau/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-11/9F57731C-A040-479C-B079-6E4811942387_zps8qrkr43m.jpg (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/antatreau/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-11/9F57731C-A040-479C-B079-6E4811942387_zps8qrkr43m.jpg.html)

[Greentree]

I also noticed that the base of my red dragon is quite pale. I really hope it's not going to STN :( :( The only corals I've lost within the last few months were on that side of the tank. The only thing that could be different in that area is poor flow, so I also added another small power head.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f207/antatreau/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-11/7F08684D-A7E3-4E77-A27F-0673DCF1D90B_zps3dseggv1.jpg (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/antatreau/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-11/7F08684D-A7E3-4E77-A27F-0673DCF1D90B_zps3dseggv1.jpg.html)

[Greentree]

All righty - I picked up two new friends to help with my nutrients.

Naoko wrasse - I've always loved this fish!
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f207/antatreau/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-11/A10DC92C-0FAC-4148-AFE4-771E2D0CF7CF_zpsbrizffkn.png (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/antatreau/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-11/A10DC92C-0FAC-4148-AFE4-771E2D0CF7CF_zpsbrizffkn.png.html)

Red saddled anthias (this is not my pic, but you get the idea ;) ) I'll take some more pics when the lights are on tomorrow!
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f207/antatreau/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-11/263F205C-074C-4C83-990C-D971DB3911C3_zps7ae6uat3.png (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/antatreau/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-11/263F205C-074C-4C83-990C-D971DB3911C3_zps7ae6uat3.png.html)

[Greentree]

Red dragon looks no worse or better, fingers still crossed!

[Flexin5]

that's a really nice looking anthias. if the red dragon starts to STN up you can cut off the branches or dead part and hopefully save the frag.

[Greentree]

that's a really nice looking anthias. if the red dragon starts to STN up you can cut off the branches or dead part and hopefully save the frag.

Thanks Flexin, I might have to do that :/ ugh!

[bashment]

I also noticed that the base of my red dragon is quite pale. I really hope it's not going to STN :( :( The only corals I've lost within the last few months were on that side of the tank. The only thing that could be different in that area is poor flow, so I also added another small power head.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f207/antatreau/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-11/7F08684D-A7E3-4E77-A27F-0673DCF1D90B_zps3dseggv1.jpg (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/antatreau/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-11/7F08684D-A7E3-4E77-A27F-0673DCF1D90B_zps3dseggv1.jpg.html)



Is it the same rock that caused the prior STN of other sps? If so, how old is that rock? I've had a similar issue one time where I dropped in a fairly new dead rock in my established tank that was apparently leeching phosphorus onto the frags I was attaching to it. It caused base up stn/rtn.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[h3dgehog]

It could be from a pest snail or crab that inhabits that particular rock?

[Greentree]

Is it the same rock that caused the prior STN of other sps? If so, how old is that rock? I've had a similar issue one time where I dropped in a fairly new dead rock in my established tank that was apparently leeching phosphorus onto the frags I was attaching to it. It caused base up stn/rtn.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oh wow - that's crazy! It's insane how many things can cause issues in this hobby! It's an old rock, and there is a perfectly happy Hawkins echinata on it as well :/

[Greentree]

It could be from a pest snail or crab that inhabits that particular rock?

Could the asterina stars be bothering it? Otherwise I don't think so.

On the upside, I think that flesh is coloring up a little! I'll have a better idea when the lights come on.

[Greentree]

Here she is! She hid from the camera -
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f207/antatreau/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-11/85BDBD05-2FDA-4F01-8E0E-33C471FA3FBE_zpsyozza1va.png (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/antatreau/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-11/85BDBD05-2FDA-4F01-8E0E-33C471FA3FBE_zpsyozza1va.png.html)

[reefmutt]

Nice new fish! That anthias looks a bit hungry. I hope it eats for you. They can be finicky. Try lots of different small foods to get it eating.
I think that if those lights were mine, I'd raise them a couple more inches but also spread them apart some more.. do they deliver light to the outside edges or your tank?
I find red dragons very often get spots of stn on them and often it doesn't progress.
I'd leave it alone until you see some growth, then you could consider clipping off the base and reglueing it..
How about a fts?

[reefervanwinkle]

Cyclopeeze worked great getting my dispar anthias eating, now they eat nls pellets (0.5mm), mysis, and lrs reef/frenzy no problems at all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Greentree]

She looks super hungry - I'll definitely try all of those suggestions. I'm going to work hard on her.

[Greentree]

I've been hesitant to post a full tank shot because it's still a pretty new tan (I only started adding coral about 10 months ago) and all of your tanks are so beautiful! I really hope to have a world-class SPS tank someday. Anyway - here it is, work in progress.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f207/antatreau/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-11/3B745CC6-9935-48C1-A87B-1F8799856FF6_zpsmvzqbrui.png (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/antatreau/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-11/3B745CC6-9935-48C1-A87B-1F8799856FF6_zpsmvzqbrui.png.html)

[Greentree]

I'm thinking about pulling out this big rock in the center (along with the giant rbta) to open things up.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f207/antatreau/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-11/BF04E237-3B32-4589-B710-BA935D9660AB_zpskpjqslg9.png (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/antatreau/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-11/BF04E237-3B32-4589-B710-BA935D9660AB_zpskpjqslg9.png.html)

[Flexin5]

give it a try, you can always put it back lol

[Greentree]

give it a try, you can always put it back lol

Very true!

I have another question. I'm not having any luck bringing my Alk down because the corals are suffering and therefore not growing. Consumption is almost nothing. Any ideas? I'm still at 9.8 and it's not budging.

I've done water changes but that hardly makes a dent (as I would expect, I'd have to do several massive water changes even to bring it down to 9) but I don't know what else to do. Hmm...

[reefmutt]

You'd have to find a salt with a low kh like Red Sea blue bucket or aquaforest, but your right, it'd mean several water changes.
9.8 isn't the end of the world and it will eventually fall.. just let it drop naturally, even if it takes some time. More stressful for you because we always want things to happen now but less stressful for the reef if it goes down slowly.

By the way, I like the idea of removing that rock. It'll make for a nice dramatic look to the tank.

[Flexin5]

Very true!

I have another question. I'm not having any luck bringing my Alk down because the corals are suffering and therefore not growing. Consumption is almost nothing. Any ideas? I'm still at 9.8 and it's not budging.

I've done water changes but that hardly makes a dent (as I would expect, I'd have to do several massive water changes even to bring it down to 9) but I don't know what else to do. Hmm...

what's your calcium at? i find that when i have lower calcium and i bring it up that my alk drops.

[Greentree]

what's your calcium at? i find that when i have lower calcium and i bring it up that my alk drops.

Interesting! Calcium is stuck at exactly 400.

[Greentree]

You'd have to find a salt with a low kh like Red Sea blue bucket or aquaforest, but your right, it'd mean several water changes.
9.8 isn't the end of the world and it will eventually fall.. just let it drop naturally, even if it takes some time. More stressful for you because we always want things to happen now but less stressful for the reef if it goes down slowly.


Ah, that wouldn't hurt! I think I will do that. You're totally right, it's so hard to be patient! Especially when things seem to look a little worse every day :( the support from you guys really helps, thanks again so much.


By the way, I like the idea of removing that rock. It'll make for a nice dramatic look to the tank.

Yeah I'll pull it out this weekend :) I think it'll be good too.

[Greentree]

I'm in rough shape :( things continue to slowly look worse. I tried to save some of the red dragon but it all RTN'd. Alk is down to 9.2, I'm aiming for 8 until I can get some nutrients on the chart. Any thoughts on that? I'm so miserable!

On the upside, the new little anthias and wrasse are eating really well! I also had the opportunity to pick up a chubby leopard wrasse that eats EVERYHING, she's an absolute beast and a treat to feed. Hopefully that'll help my situation.

[milsaltnewbie07]

I'm in rough shape :( things continue to slowly look worse. I tried to save some of the red dragon but it all RTN'd. Alk is down to 9.2, I'm aiming for 8 until I can get some nutrients on the chart. Any thoughts on that? I'm so miserable!

On the upside, the new little anthias and wrasse are eating really well! I also had the opportunity to pick up a chubby leopard wrasse that eats EVERYHING, she's an absolute beast and a treat to feed. Hopefully that'll help my situation.

Sucks big time. Trust me is what every acro lover hates to hear or see. I can seriously say we have all been there at one point of our hobby . Some things you can do is skimm part time so half day on half of. Downside to this is that ph might be affected. However what yoy can do is leave it running and remove the collection cup. This way, your ph shouldn't fluctuate. I have done this , and has worked for me. You can also dump some skimmate back to the tank. Kinda feed your corals. Also make sure you stop all dosing of alk, if you want to lower it. I have always hated high alk, seems there are to many cons to it, so i stay at 8 or below. Good luck

[nyfishkid87]

Wow

[nyfishkid87]

Beautiful

[Greentree]

Sucks big time. Trust me is what every acro lover hates to hear or see. I can seriously say we have all been there at one point of our hobby . Some things you can do is skimm part time so half day on half of. Downside to this is that ph might be affected. However what yoy can do is leave it running and remove the collection cup. This way, your ph shouldn't fluctuate. I have done this , and has worked for me. You can also dump some skimmate back to the tank. Kinda feed your corals. Also make sure you stop all dosing of alk, if you want to lower it. I have always hated high alk, seems there are to many cons to it, so i stay at 8 or below. Good luck

Thank you for the encouragement, that's a great tip about the skimmer! I'm going to try that today!

[Greentree]

Adding this update here too - When I tested this morning I had 5ppm nitrates, .16 phosphates! It's a Christmas miracle! I was considering pulling the remaining corals and putting them in a frag tank with good seeded water, or doing a huge water change, but I think I just need to accept that the damage is done - whatever lives is what I haven't doomed already. Alk is at 9, still dropping slowly.

[Flexin5]

ah that sucks. red dragon can be sometimes difficult to keep, for some reason they never do well in my tank but other sps do great. eventually you'll find the right balance between nutrients and alk and the tank will do great. i find that sps do better in dirty water lol

[ClownReef®]

Do you QT your fish?

[Greentree]

I do, but not anthias or leopard wrasses since they tend not to handle it well. I also would have QT'd the naoko wrasse but he had been housed with them so it likely wouldn't have prevented anything... and maybe I was a bit lazy this time. Not good practice, I know...

[Greentree]

Things are still going downhill. Still slowly losing everything except birdsnests and LPS, and big blue fuzzy SPS that I forget the name of.

Alk is dropping slowly, I'm at about 8. I ordered a triton kit to send a water sample in.

Also, I've been reading up on Aquaforest and I like what I see. I'm thinking that when this levels out (if it ever does), before I add anything more, I will convert fully to Aquaforest. This way if I happen to have any swings during the transition, I won't have any new coral to lose and risk is minimal. Thoughts?

[Nanighan]

If hope is almost lost for the sps, try this. Take a 10g tank and put about 80% new saltwater and 10-20% old tank water. Put all dying sps in there with indirect flow. Add light but lower in strength than the main tank light. Also add some rock from the main tank. This is effectively a massive water change. Do not dose at all just evap top off. I have done this, and woks pretty well, but the sps was not really on its last legs though.

Not sure if you do this or not, but make sure you roll around the bucket or bag your salt comes in as to get a even mixture all the time. Good Luck!

[Greentree]

If hope is almost lost for the sps, try this. Take a 10g tank and put about 80% new saltwater and 10-20% old tank water. Put all dying sps in there with indirect flow. Add light but lower in strength than the main tank light. Also add some rock from the main tank. This is effectively a massive water change. Do not dose at all just evap top off. I have done this, and woks pretty well, but the sps was not really on its last legs though.

Not sure if you do this or not, but make sure you roll around the bucket or bag your salt comes in as to get a even mixture all the time. Good Luck!

Thank you for that tip! I was considering something like this, but wanted feedback from someone who had tried it. I might go ahead with it... Hmm...

[reefmutt]

Man o man, your tank is sooo unstable right now, it is not a surprise that you are having troubles.
Last month, you had no nutrients and a kh of 10, now you have nutrients- even slightly elevated p and a lower kh.
You've changed lighting as well...
I don't believe there is anything wrong with your water..
You are playing the reaction game. Whatever happens in the tank gets an adjustment.. this keeps you one step behind the tank and lets the problems dictate your actions... it's a tough position to be in.
I suggest stop worrying and fussing about the sick corals.. they are sick because of instability.
Sps can react immediately to stress and they can react very slowly to stress. You can never tell for sure if an sps is sick because of a stress that happened yesterday or last month and for you, you've had stressors recently and also not so recently.
I have done exactly what you are doing and completely wiped out a full sps system.
I sincerely feel that you need to step back and take a figurative deep breath and begin to concentrate on the basics. Stop worrying about the state of the corals. It is what it is right now. Concentrate on stability in the tank. Your kh is now in a good range, keep it there. Keep calcium stable and don't manipulate your nutrients anymore. Let them stay where they are.
Now, don't change the lights or anything for 2 months. You may still lose some corals but it won't be because of your current situation, it'll be from what has already happened..
Keep doing a 10 or 20% waterchange with a good salt and wait it out..
It is said over and over that bad things in a reef happen overnight and the good things take months. Truer words were never spoken.
You are in it for the long haul so take it a bit more slowly...
Hang in there and be patient.. :)

[Greentree]

Man o man, your tank is sooo unstable right now, it is not a surprise that you are having troubles.
Last month, you had no nutrients and a kh of 10, now you have nutrients- even slightly elevated p and a lower kh.
You've changed lighting as well...
I don't believe there is anything wrong with your water..
You are playing the reaction game. Whatever happens in the tank gets an adjustment.. this keeps you one step behind the tank and lets the problems dictate your actions... it's a tough position to be in.
I suggest stop worrying and fussing about the sick corals.. they are sick because of instability.
Sps can react immediately to stress and they can react very slowly to stress. You can never tell for sure if an sps is sick because of a stress that happened yesterday or last month and for you, you've had stressors recently and also not so recently.
I have done exactly what you are doing and completely wiped out a full sps system.
I sincerely feel that you need to step back and take a figurative deep breath and begin to concentrate on the basics. Stop worrying about the state of the corals. It is what it is right now. Concentrate on stability in the tank. Your kh is now in a good range, keep it there. Keep calcium stable and don't manipulate your nutrients anymore. Let them stay where they are.
Now, don't change the lights or anything for 2 months. You may still lose some corals but it won't be because of your current situation, it'll be from what has already happened..
Keep doing a 10 or 20% waterchange with a good salt and wait it out..
It is said over and over that bad things in a reef happen overnight and the good things take months. Truer words were never spoken.
You are in it for the long haul so take it a bit more slowly...
Hang in there and be patient.. :)

Aaaargh! I know you're right! I keep telling myself that this is what I'm going to do, and then I'm like... but maybe if I do this ONE more thing...

I'm going to let it be. I won't take the corals out. Thank you for the pep talk, I needed this. It's so hard!

[Dans85]

Any updates on this tank? I'm putting a very similar system in the very near future.

[Greentree]

Any updates on this tank? I'm putting a very similar system in the very near future.



Hi! I'm still plugging along, not changing much, struggling with high phosphates and a new issue - algae (hair and slime). Corals are still not consuming alk so it's steady at 7. I'm going to start running GFO again.

Last time I ran GFO my tank really took off and looked great for quite awhile - long enough to see a lot of great growth, but I went too far with it and depleted too much of the nutrients. Coral stopped using alk, huge alk swing, and subsequent rtn'ing of all of my large colonies.

I bought the complete aquaforest line and I plan to keep up with the coral's needs through the addition of their three part method, along with the trace nutrients. Hopefully I've learned enough to have more success this time around [emoji4]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HuskerBioProf]

I had a lot of these same troubles when I first started my first SPS tank (which is less than a year old, now). Alk was fluctuating all over trying to find a "sweet spot" that worked with my low nutrients and I was constantly fiddling with my LED lights to try to get enough but not too much light for the low nutrients. I couldn't ever detect any nitrate or phosphate, but still had algae popping up and my corals were paling out, if not completely bleaching.

Eventually, I swapped to ATI T5 lights and got Alk stable at ~7.5dKH by slowly adjusting the amount of Kalk in the ATO (which worked well for the undetectable nitrates). I tested for a few weeks at a rate of 3 times per week and it stayed steady at 7.4-7.6dKH. Now, I only test alkalinity every few weeks (horrible, I Know), but it is right at 7.5 when I check. I do water changes only every couple of weeks or so, and I never test for nitrate/phosphate/etc. Everything is really coloring up and growing well. Just some thoughts from my experiences.

[HuskerBioProf]

(I also took out my GFO reactor, added a kole tang to munch algae, and added a small clump of cheato to a chamber of my sump. I realized I like keeping things as simple as possible with fewer things to screw up- chaeto seems to take care of everything on its own without the spike/depletion cycles I had with GFO).