please help with ATO

[JMorris271]

Hi RC
I am getting distressed about my ATO situation. We put up a post about this before and thought we would have the problem worked out. Thats not the case.
A few months ago I put a Smart ATO on my tank. It always overfilled the sump which skewed my salinity. Thinking it was a faulty ato pump, i purchased a Tunz that it is doing the same thing so I know its not the pump over pumping or the sensor. I am using a Sincra 5 on a dual corner overflow herbie.. Suggestions please? Below are some shots of my setup

My tubing placement.
359818

My sensor placement
359821

my plumbing
359822

[JMorris271]

The sump level stays the same but the tank level rises and salinity drops from 2.06 to 2.01
My level on the overflow is usually at mid teeth.
Could it be my plumbing?


359823

[mcgyvr]

Some conflicting information there that needs clarification..
Sump level overflows then you said sump level stays the same?
Did you just purchase a pump from tunze or their complete ato system? optical sensors or floats? (I think its optical and float backup right?)
Sliding the sensor up the glass the pump should start.. Once it gets to the right level the pump should stop..

salinity 2.06? 2.01? Should be 1.026

The only section that should be changing the water height due to evap is the section that the return pump is in.. Nothing else should fluctuate.

Is that an emergency return into the return pump section? Does it ever take on water?

[vhuang168]

As I said the 1st time you asked. It CANNOT be your ato affecting the water level in your tank.

You have to tune the drain and return flows or 1 will overpower the other and can cause the issues you have.

Link to old thread.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2592898



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[creep]

As others have said in this post and your previous post, the issue is with your drain line. Your return pump is pumping more water into your display tank than the drains can handle. This is causing the water level in your display tank to rise. It is impossible for an ATO or even a garden hose dumping water into the sump to cause the level in the display tank to rise.

The only way for water to get into your display tank from the sump is through that return pump. If it's pumping water into the display tank faster than the overflow can drain it, your water level in the tank will rise.

Dial back your return pump and your issue will be fixed. For example, my return pump is too powerful for my overflow to handle at full power. So I tee'd off the return line and put a valve that directs some water back to my sump. I adjusted this valve until the water level in my display tank stayed level. From my return pump, some water gets pumped into the display tank, some gets pumped into the middle section of my sump.

[JMorris271]

Some conflicting information there that needs clarification..
Sump level overflows then you said sump level stays the same?
Did you just purchase a pump from tunze or their complete ato system? optical sensors or floats? (I think its optical and float backup right?)
Sliding the sensor up the glass the pump should start.. Once it gets to the right level the pump should stop..

salinity 2.06? 2.01? Should be 1.026

The only section that should be changing the water height due to evap is the section that the return pump is in.. Nothing else should fluctuate.

Is that an emergency return into the return pump section? Does it ever take on water?

For some reason, the optical sensor is reading a signal to call for more top off. That topoff is raising the DT tank level. So the DT level does change. and I don't know why

The sump does not overflow and stays the same. the only change is the water level up in the DT where it rises,See pix of overflow teeth

The Tunz is the kit. Pump and optical sensor with the backup.

Return pump area stays the same.

Yes. that is an emergency return but nothing ever flows through there. Ii is strictly for emergency. Bone dry on the inside.

[Cymonous]

Can we get either pics of your plumbing inside the dual overflows or a descriptive drawing? I see a strainer on one of your overflows from the original thread. Pretty sure that part should be under the water level in your overflow of your tank. Do you have an emergency drain on each corner overflow as well?

[Potatohead]

The sump does not overflow and stays the same. the only change is the water level in the DT rises,See pix of overflow teeth

The Tunz is the kit. Pump and optical sensor with the backup.

Return pump area stays the same.

Yes. that is an emergency return but nothing ever flows through there. Ii is strictly for emergency. Bone dry on the inside.

This is impossible unless you are adding more water to the system which it sounds like is your problem. The ATO should be replacing evaporated water, not adding water volume to the system. The DT level should never rise, as has been stated, your drain is not draining as fast as the return pump is returning. It has nothing to do with your ATO.

[JMorris271]

As I said the 1st time you asked. It CANNOT be your ato affecting the water level in your tank.

You have to tune the drain and return flows or 1 will overpower the other and can cause the issues you have.

Link to old thread.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2592898



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The problem is something is causing the water added from the ato to raise that DT level.I have posted a photo to show the difference between night and morning. In the night, my reservoir is half full. I the morning it is 1 inch from the bottom. The only change I see in the morning is a much lower water level in that reservoir and a raised level in the DT,.

[vashawn]

This is impossible unless you are adding more water to the system which it sounds like is your problem. The ATO should be replacing evaporated water, not adding water volume to the system. The DT level should never rise, as has been stated, your drain is not draining as fast as the return pump is returning. It has nothing to do with your ATO.

u nailed it!
this happened to me on my new setup. The return flow is more than whats going back into your sump so basically you need to have a valve on the return line and dial it down a few.

[JMorris271]

Can we get either pics of your plumbing inside the dual overflows or a descriptive drawing? I see a strainer on one of your overflows from the original thread. Pretty sure that part should be under the water level in your overflow of your tank. Do you have an emergency drain on each corner overflow as well?
I can get a pix but in both overflows, the returns and emergency are 1 inch below the skimmer chamber water level

[Esage]

For some reason, the optical sensor is reading a signal to call for more top off. That topoff is raising the DT tank level. So the DT level does change. and I don't know why

The sump does not overflow and stays the same. the only change is the water level up in the DT where it rises,See pix of overflow teeth

The Tunz is the kit. Pump and optical sensor with the backup.

Return pump area stays the same.

Yes. that is an emergency return but nothing ever flows through there. Ii is strictly for emergency. Bone dry on the inside.

The ATO is getting a signal to fill because your return pump is over powering your overflow, that is causing the water level in the sump to lower.

[JMorris271]

As I said the 1st time you asked. It CANNOT be your ato affecting the water level in your tank.

You have to tune the drain and return flows or 1 will overpower the other and can cause the issues you have.

Link to old thread.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2592898



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I do remember you saying that and you were and are correct. Both of the drains and the pump are maxed open. If the drains are closed any more the overflow will really hit the emergency. I'll cut the pump back . I was in error thinking that cutting the pump back would cause the middle chamber to over run the baffle just before the return chamber?.

[JMorris271]

As others have said in this post and your previous post, the issue is with your drain line. Your return pump is pumping more water into your display tank than the drains can handle. This is causing the water level in your display tank to rise. It is impossible for an ATO or even a garden hose dumping water into the sump to cause the level in the display tank to rise.

The only way for water to get into your display tank from the sump is through that return pump. If it's pumping water into the display tank faster than the overflow can drain it, your water level in the tank will rise.

Dial back your return pump and your issue will be fixed. For example, my return pump is too powerful for my overflow to handle at full power. So I tee'd off the return line and put a valve that directs some water back to my sump. I adjusted this valve until the water level in my display tank stayed level. From my return pump, some water gets pumped into the display tank, some gets pumped into the middle section of my sump.
OK. I'll try that again. I must be cutting back too much when I did that before.

[JMorris271]

The ATO is getting a signal to fill because your return pump is over powering your overflow, that is causing the water level in the sump to lower.
Iwill reduce flow from the pump.

[JMorris271]

u nailed it!
this happened to me on my new setup. The return flow is more than whats going back into your sump so basically you need to have a valve on the return line and dial it down a few.
Will do.

[Potatohead]

I do remember you saying that and you were and are correct. Both of the drains and the pump are maxed open. If the drains are closed any more the overflow will really hit the emergency. I'll cut the pump back . Thanks.

Place a valve and dial back the return pump a bit and I bet your problem subsides.

[JMorris271]

Place a valve and dial back the return pump a bit and I bet your problem subsides.
Thanks PotaH

[vhuang168]

I do remember you saying that and you were and are correct. Both of the drains and the pump are maxed open. If the drains are closed any more the overflow will really hit the emergency. I'll cut the pump back . I was in error thinking that cutting the pump back would cause the middle chamber to over run the baffle just before the return chamber?.



You may need to remove some water from the sump when you dial bk the return.


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[Cymonous]

If this is your pump, it has a dial built-in. Use the dial or a valve on the return if you already have one.

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/sicce-syncra-silent-5-0-pump-1321-gph.html

[Cymonous]

I can get a pix but in both overflows, the returns and emergency are 1 inch below the skimmer chamber water level

Wait, both the regular drain and emergency drains are 1-inch below the teeth of your overflow? From what I am understanding, your regular drain pvc is 1-inch below the teeth, but the strainer is above? That can't be right.

For reference, your Herbie should look like this

http://gmacreef.com/herbie-overflow-reef-tank-plumbing-method-basics/

[Silly clownfish]

One thing to check - does your top off tank sit higher than the sump it is being oumped into? If it does, the ATO can turn off the pump, but you could still have more water siphon into the sump until the levels equalize. If the height difference is small, you might not notice what is going on right away.

I had this happen when I switched to a larger container for a vacation and the container had to sit outside of the cabinet and I made the mistake if setting it on a stool rather than directly on the hardwood floor. This meant that when the container was full, the first tie the ATO kicked on, it filled, the pump turned off, then it continued to siphon a few more quarts. So it didn't make a big problem, but was enough to trigger the high water alarm on my ATO.

[JMorris271]

Thanks for that Silly can. I don't have minexpensive set lower than the tank. I am glad that wasn't a big disaster for you.

[blackway1688]

I guess your return pump is not at stable flow rate. If the flow rate is getting higher, the sump level will drop and trigger ATO to top off.