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View Full Version : Batch of bad salt, foreign objects in salt -- 1.026 = 5.8 dKH


Rakie
10/19/2016, 11:44 PM
So got a batch of salt, everything about it seemed wonderful including the reaction my corals gave me -- at first. Then I noticed I was having trouble keeping my dKH up, and 2 days later my corals began getting a little pale.. in a nano things move quick.. So as I was setting up for a water change I decided to check out the Alk in fresh mix... THis is something I do every time I get a bucket of salt.. But not this time.

The one freaking time I didn't test first, of course :facepalm: And before you ask -- I thoroughly mixed the salt, before mixing the salt.

Additionally... I found what looks like used sandpaper in my mix, and it looks almost like it was used on some type of metal... As it glistens in light, and leaves a residue if you touch it.


Dry glisteny sand paper

http://i.imgur.com/yKBXQYS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/QpoY6AN.jpg


Batch Information

http://i.imgur.com/aYzy5TY.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/PFTdasd.jpg

Rakie
10/20/2016, 02:18 PM
Update: AquaForest reached out immediately and offered to send me a replacement for my Reef Salt.

They could have posted here which would have looked good to customers, but they decided to directly message me to solve my problem.

Very prompt customer service!

Mr.Fishtank
10/20/2016, 07:53 PM
My last two buckets have been crap. (regular reef salt)
Both buckets were bought at the same time and both had the same parameters per paper in bucket. I mix the dry salt very well before every wc and never get the numbers they say that it is supposed to have.

AF cal 440
My testing 470-500+ on first bucket 380-410 on the bucket i'm using now

AF mg 1410
My testing 1500+ on first bucket 1480 on the current bucket

AF ALK 7.7
My testing 7.9-8.2 on first bucket 7.0-7.2 on the current bucket

I really don't care if the alk is low. I can buffer that to the level I want. But for **** sake why the **** is the mag over 1500 when your paper said it would be 1410 which is still higher then some of us run it. I have had nothing but bad experiences with most of the AF products. From comp 1 not fully dissolving to broken bottle cap on my supplements and two buckets of salt with wacked parameters. Now i'm dealing with trying to get my mag down to a better level. Lost so much color and corals turning colors that they shouldn't. Very disappointing.

BB215
10/23/2016, 03:22 AM
I have the same test results Mg 1500+, Kh 7.9 and Ca 425.
Even went and purchased other test kits to confirm
I think I will go down the beach and use NSW from now on

Aquaforest
10/24/2016, 06:04 AM
Hello,
As author of this Thread wrote: we will replace new bucket of salt.
Dear customers - If you will have any problems with your salts. Please contact with us at: [email protected]

Best regards,
Aquaforest

GoVols
10/25/2016, 03:28 PM
I posted this on Dr Foster's back in June 2016.

Contacted "Deep Water" about these #'s. Said AF must have put sea salt in reef salt buckets (on two different batch #'s). Never asked me for a sample or bucket replacement.

I've been using AF Reef Salt since it came available in the US.
After apox. 9 months of use I'm saddened. I've received two buckets of Reef Salt that came in close to their Sea Salt params. I always thoroughly roll the salt in the bags before use. I mix to 1.025 SG. Both batches came in about the same calcium / alk levels.
Calium came to apox. 350. Alk came in at aprox. 6-dkh. I use 3 different test kit brands to triple check if something seems off. (AP / Red Sea and Elos). The other batches I received were spot on!
The 3 kits came to the same #'s on both batches. I had hoped I could get I could get Tropic Marin / Brightwell consistency at Aquaforest pricing. I noticed another reporting the same #'s to AF online and AF says their certificate #'s are correct. Well after running against 3 different test kits and seeing someone post my exact numbers, well I'll let you be the judge.
This will be the first and last time that I'll step in and be a guinea pig for a new brand in the US over my reef.

Yonp11
10/26/2016, 10:11 AM
I posted here a few months ago about my batch of probiotic salt not mixing to the QC certificate parameters, not even close. I rolled the buckets, RODI, uses 2 refractometers with 2 different refractometer calibration fluids. I used 2 different brands of test kits bought at 2 different times.

I was told here that I must have been mixing the salt to the wrong SG. Glad to see it wasn't just me.

kainic
10/26/2016, 10:20 AM
Replacement is like "shhh you've not seen this"
I think it would be better an explanation on why we can't trust your parameter sheet or a better consistency on salt parameters.

Rakie
10/26/2016, 11:08 AM
Replacement is like "shhh you've not seen this"
I think it would be better an explanation on why we can't trust your parameter sheet or a better consistency on salt parameters.

The retailer who sold to me had told me a few of the boxes of Reef Salt appeared to have been accidentally filled with "Sea Salt" which is their FOWLR formula.

That retailer was really cool, he said when he heard this he confirmed it himself by checking their salts against each other, and asking customers with a bad batch to double check all the params on freshly mixed salt and send him the results for science. He also specifically asked for these exact photos from me so he could trace the batch and alert the company.. I don't wanna potentially make AF upset by this retailer being knowledgable and doing a kick *** job, so I wont name him in the thread.

I got this off Amazon 'cause everyone was out when I wanted to order it -- I was extremely surprised by this retailer being knowledgable, understanding, and thorough.

I think the biggest thing being swept under the rug is the foreign object. What the heck is that thing? It looks like used sandpaper that was used on some type of metal.

GoVols
10/26/2016, 11:35 AM
AF's certificate #'s are my problem.

I used Seachem's "Salinity Salt" for about a year. Their certificate #'s always came in very close to my mixed #'s. I changed because "Salinity" had PH drop issues, which has been highly reported by others including the Atlanta reef forum.

I wasn't paying AF to dose up while mixing. If I wanted to do that I would have kept using regular "Instant Ocean".

Wen't back to go ole Reef Crystal and very happy.

I was happy with Component 1+ 2+ 3+ (Very Stable) but will only work with AF or Tropic Marin salts to stabilize ions.

Not here to totally dog out AF but if the certificate #'s are off what's the use in "promoting" as a guarantied analysis like "Salinity Salt" mix?

AF can throw this problem under the rug or "Grow as a company" and fix the issue.

Rakie
10/26/2016, 11:57 AM
It's a shame it happens, but getting a new salt so I'll test that out and see what happens. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. I like AF products, but it seems their salts leave something to be desired.

My other Go To used to be Tropic Marin, but many people too claimed the QC wasn't up to par, and that Alk was often misrepresented. If either of these fail to pan out I'll probably go to IO purple or Red Sea blue.

kainic
10/26/2016, 02:55 PM
I was happy with Component 1+ 2+ 3+ (Very Stable) but will only work with AF or Tropic Marin salts to stabilize ions.


I'm interested in an extended version of this statement. I'm dosing Component 1+ 2+ 3+ and I'm wondering changing to blue bucket Red Sea salt.

GoVols
10/26/2016, 04:07 PM
Sure,

AF and Tropic Marin are the only (NaCl free salt) sold here in the USA. (As far as I know)

If the salt is not (NaCl free salt) then your ions wont balance out and you will start chasing Component 1+ 2+ 3+.

Component 1-3 is made to work with (NaCl free salt) to stabilize and even out for the same dose per each of the 3 part.

This is my understanding.

If AF debunks me on this then they need to educate Deep Water Aquatics, which is the US distrib. who explained to me how all AF products worked when AF first hit the US market. They are the ones who said it had to be (NaCl free salt) to make Component 1-3 ions stabilize.

Back then I could only get AF from Salty Supply and Amazon. I was told by Deep Water that there would be no price hikes coming too. Well, since those early days Amazon went up $20.00 a bucket and everyone else has gone up $10.00 a bucket.

kainic
10/26/2016, 04:19 PM
Sure,

AF and Tropic Marin are the only (NaCl free salt) sold here in the USA. (As far as I know)

If the salt is not (NaCl free salt) then your ions wont balance out and you will start chasing Component 1+ 2+ 3+.

Component 1-3 is made to work with (NaCl free salt) to stabilize and even out for the same dose per each of the 3 part.

This is my understanding.

If AF debunks me on this then they need to educate Deep Water Aquatics, which is the US distrib. who explained to me how all AF products worked when AF first hit the US market. They are the ones who said it had to be (NaCl free salt) to make Component 1-3 ions stabilize.

Back then I could only get AF from Salty Supply and Amazon. I was told by Deep Water that there would be no price hikes coming too. Well, since those early days Amazon went up $20.00 a bucket and everyone else has gone up $10.00 a bucket.
Much appreciated.

GoVols
10/26/2016, 04:40 PM
Same back at ya!

I've been waiting along time for someone to post mixed #'s not matching certificate #'s. Not to mention the hunk of garbage that was in your bucket. (lol)

It's not good enough to be told AF must have put in sea salt into reef salt buckets.

Fellow reefer's need to be aware and AF needs to own up and fix the consistency of their salt to match the certificates. It's that simple.

GoVols
10/26/2016, 04:44 PM
Sorry, I mean Rakie's bucket.

GoVols
10/26/2016, 04:48 PM
Kianic, Your right on one thing. It's like "Shhhhh" from AF. Don't post, just email us.

2dawghouse
10/26/2016, 05:19 PM
Kianic, Your right on one thing. It's like "Shhhhh" from AF. Don't post, just email us.

So I had a similar issue with a new bucket of Probiotic with Mg being WAY high and Alk being way low. As well the salt was rock hard and in block form. When I mixed it up it turned the water dirty brown. So I threw out my first mixed batch thinking it was something I did, then made another 10 gals...nope water was still dirty.

I contacted AF about this issue asking them what was up with this bucket (Ive gone through easily 7 buckets of salt alone and who knows how many liters of 123). Their response to me was send them a sample of 5L of mixed water and they will test it...I wonder what it would cost me to send 5L of water to Europe will cost me?

Numbers I can adjust but the dirty, cloudy water is my concern.

BB215
10/27/2016, 02:56 AM
So I had a similar issue with a new bucket of Probiotic with Mg being WAY high and Alk being way low. As well the salt was rock hard and in block form. When I mixed it up it turned the water dirty brown. So I threw out my first mixed batch thinking it was something I did, then made another 10 gals...nope water was still dirty.

I contacted AF about this issue asking them what was up with this bucket (Ive gone through easily 7 buckets of salt alone and who knows how many liters of 123). Their response to me was send them a sample of 5L of mixed water and they will test it...I wonder what it would cost me to send 5L of water to Europe will cost me?

Numbers I can adjust but the dirty, cloudy water is my concern.

I thought it was something I did wrong with dirty cloudy water plus Mg levels 1500 plus. I've stopped all dosing, added more GAC, changing filter sock daily and 40 liter water changes with IO salt.
I was going to start dosing comp 123+ when levels are in check but did not know anything about the Naci free salt thing. Glad I read this thread right through.

Would natural salt water be ok to use with comp 123+ ??

Aquaforest
10/27/2016, 06:01 AM
STheir response to me was send them a sample of 5L of mixed water and they will test it...I wonder what it would cost me to send 5L of water to Europe will cost me?


We need minimum 25ml for tests - but we recommend to dissolved 5L saltmix and take from that minimum 25ml.

Aquaforest

Lou Ekus
10/27/2016, 08:51 AM
I am reading a lot on this thread about 3 part dosing. Please understand that most of these 3 part methods are Balling Method imitators. This is not to say that they don't work or are bad. They are just not the true Balling Method or Hans-Werner Balling's formula. If we are talking the true Balling Method, then the NaCl free sea salt is complete, with ALL, not "some" trace elements, and is the Part C, not the part 2. Here is a link to a You Tube explanation of the Balling Method. (if you select "captions" in the video options you will get English captions of Han-Wernrer's narration).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZy7RS8kEag

This is not posted here as a Tropic Marin advertisement. It seemed to me to be an appropriate explanation for the questions in this thread. I hope it helps clear up any misinformation or questions.

GoVols
10/27/2016, 09:10 AM
Thanks, Lou

I only thing missing now is for "Randy Holmes - Farley" (The Master) to jump on this thread and rip us all a new one. (lol)

GoVols
10/27/2016, 12:25 PM
Let's get this thread back track. "Buckets not mixing to data sheets"

AF is your data sheets stating what your "full batch" read, but maybe not accurate to what's in each and every bucket from the that "full batch"?

sk8elenex92
10/27/2016, 03:13 PM
@AquaForest

How true is this " Component 1+ 2+ 3+ will only work with AF or Tropic Marin salts to stabilize ions" Need to be NaCl free salt???

Is this the cause of SPS STNing just after couple days of dosing COMP123???

BB215
10/27/2016, 05:08 PM
Hello,
As author of this Thread wrote: we will replace new bucket of salt.
Dear customers - If you will have any problems with your salts. Please contact with us at: [email protected]

Best regards,
Aquaforest

Here's my reply from [email protected]

Hello,

Thank you for your e-mail and information.

I am sure that salt with Mg 1500 could not go out from our factory.

We are active at many forums and also in Aquaforest Group at Facebook - users are showing their tanks and corals look amazing with using Aquaforest products.

Mr.Fishtank
10/27/2016, 09:22 PM
Here's my reply from [email protected]

Hello,

Thank you for your e-mail and information.

I am sure that salt with Mg 1500 could not go out from our factory.

We are active at many forums and also in Aquaforest Group at Facebook - users are showing their tanks and corals look amazing with using Aquaforest products.

LOL. Really AF. With all of us on this thread having the same problems.Your going to tell us that the salt is fine and you wouldn't ship out bad batches.

It really ticks me off that you don't take blame for you F up's. I will not purchase anymore of your products. Even my LFS discontinued selling your products because they said that too many of their customers were complaining that things were going wrong after they started using Aquaforest products. Good luck with business!

2dawghouse
10/27/2016, 11:59 PM
I liked their products and raved to several club members about their products. But this batch of salt is definitely subpar for the level of quality I have been receiving before. I agree it's not a coincidence that several people have come forward telling of QC issues with their salt. And I would like to know why my bucket of salt arrived in block form, not in powder form. And I'm certain it has something to do with the water looking dirty.

Yonp11
10/28/2016, 12:07 PM
Honestly, if you can order from Amazon, I'd advise you to do that instead. If you open up the bucket and it doesn't mix to the QC certificate, just tell Amazon you got a defective batch and you'd like a refund or an exchange, and you'll even provide photo evidence if needed. This will ping the distributor, who I'm sure will tell AF they are getting an increase in complaints in product quality.

It seems by the lack of AF response to the complaints in this thread, along with the customer service email reply posted by BB215, AF would rather ignore the problem or assume its a user error.

plyle02
10/28/2016, 02:30 PM
I am here to help, but when it escalates beyond my support capabilities, I have to allow AF to decide on how things are to be handled. I have had no issues at all using the Probiotic Salt. I do not have the increased mag, nor do I have other shifting parameters, but the complaints I am seeing seem to be related to AF Reef Salt. I apologize for any of your frustrations, I have interacted with the Co-Owner and Debora, who are with the team in Poland. They are very fair and are excellent aquarists too, to think they don't care is a tad harsh! Cheers and happy reefing :)

Martin Kuhn
10/28/2016, 03:19 PM
Hmmm... reading this is like a "Deja vu" for me.

Understanding everybody who is disappointed here, i would anyhow suggest to look for further clarification before everybody claims the manufacturer for delivering poor quality.
Give the AF guys a fair chance.

- at which exact salinity should the water have "too much Mg". Are you really sure this is at the salinity level AF is posting their values? including the Q report of the batch? Are you really sure that your measurement kits work correct and that you measure correctly?
(too high salinity too high Ca/Alk/Mg values !)

- shouldn't we do a X-Check of what was measured and stated to be out of specs with another, trusted source?
From my side i offer to check a sample "that is thought to be out of spec", fully indepentently.
For my salt measurements from ACalc i own quite reliable "measuring stuff"
a) calibrated Mettler-Toledo weigh + calibrated temp.measurement unit + TM Aeromter
b) Testkits for CA/Alk/Mg from Peter Gilbers which are the most trusted kits in Germany at the moment, checked for corrections factors with Multi-reference
however... somebody needs to send me a sample of the salt to germany....PM

units with arrived in "block form" obiously should not be part of of this.
Anyhow: the packaging might get damaged during transport without any fault from the manufacturers side, besides it would be a good idea to improve the packaging quality then ;

2dawghouse
10/28/2016, 04:07 PM
Hmmm... reading this is like a "Deja vu" for me.

Understanding everybody who is disappointed here, i would anyhow suggest to look for further clarification before everybody claims the manufacturer for delivering poor quality.
Give the AF guys a fair chance.

- at which exact salinity should the water have "too much Mg". Are you really sure this is at the salinity level AF is posting their values? including the Q report of the batch? Are you really sure that your measurement kits work correct and that you measure correctly?
(too high salinity too high Ca/Alk/Mg values !)

- shouldn't we do a X-Check of what was measured and stated to be out of specs with another, trusted source?
From my side i offer to check a sample "that is thought to be out of spec", fully indepentently.
For my salt measurements from ACalc i own quite reliable "measuring stuff"
a) calibrated Mettler-Toledo weigh + calibrated temp.measurement unit + TM Aeromter
b) Testkits for CA/Alk/Mg from Peter Gilbers which are the most trusted kits in Germany at the moment, checked for corrections factors with Multi-reference
however... somebody needs to send me a sample of the salt to germany....PM

units with arrived in "block form" obiously should not be part of of this.
Anyhow: the packaging might get damaged during transport without any fault from the manufacturers side, besides it would be a good idea to improve the packaging quality then ;

Im not to worried about the numbers per se...I can manipulate the mixture to match what my tank is currently reading. I am more worried about my salt being contaminated and hardening up. I am also going to try an experiment at home and see if maybe the salt was exposed to humidity which may have caused it to solidify due to the probiotic nature of the salt.

plyle02
10/28/2016, 04:36 PM
Im not to worried about the numbers per se...I can manipulate the mixture to match what my tank is currently reading. I am more worried about my salt being contaminated and hardening up. I am also going to try an experiment at home and see if maybe the salt was exposed to humidity which may have caused it to solidify due to the probiotic nature of the salt.

Hello,
From my understanding, binders are not used. For this reason, it is imperative that the salt is tied off and the lid on the bucket is re-sealed completely, as it will harden. I had a bucket towards the middle/ end of it's use do this, the reason was that I did not re-seal the bag or the bucket properly. I have since become very aware of this and the issue has never happened again. On another site, many who ordered from a specific online retailer had the same issue with the NEW salt arriving this way. The communication I received stated the salt is still ok to use, I used it to completion with no negative impacts on my reef. The only issue was that it did not mix as well as normal. Regards,

dz6t
10/28/2016, 07:41 PM
I have three buckets of Reef Salt turned into hard rock in their SEALED containers and stored in the house in 6 month. AF (actually his boss) simply told me to go pound sand.
So these salt can't be stored in their seal container for 6 month? I wish I knew that before I bought them. I never have this kind of problem with any other brand of salt in the past 12 years.

Martin Kuhn
10/28/2016, 08:21 PM
I have three buckets of Reef Salt turned into hard rock in their SEALED containers and stored in the house in 6 month. AF (actually his boss) simply told me to go pound sand.
So these salt can't be stored in their seal container for 6 month? I wish I knew that before I bought them. I never have this kind of problem with any other brand of salt in the past 12 years.

Isn't there something like a shelf life stamp on the container?
i can hardly imagine that shelf life of such a product is as short.

What do you mean with "simply told me to go pound sand" ?

===========
also, one thing i fogot to write the first time: Of course it is absolutely NOT OK if some "pieces of whatever" (eg used grinding paper ?) are within an (unopened) salt bucket.

you wrote: "Additionally... I found what looks like used sandpaper in my mix"
Q: was this within the sealed part /bag in the bucket ? Just mixed in, so that you couldn't see it once you used the first amount of salt?

or was it just lying in the bucket and not within the sealed part ?

GoVols
10/28/2016, 08:31 PM
Aquaforest Please Respond,

After further research and trying to learn...

If I'm correct your "Salt Mixes" ARE NOT (NaCl free salt) salt mixes.

Meaning: With out NaCl "Sodium chloride" it's not sea salt.

NaCl free salt mixes are made for the consumer to add the "Sodium chloride" while mixing the salt.

Is this a correct?

Before new water is added to a tank it must have "Sodium chloride".

Is this correct?

So, Component 1+ 2+ 3+ would make a great choice to be used with all brands of salt mixes!

Is this correct?

If I'm not correct with any part of this post, please explain so I can learn.

Martin Kuhn
10/28/2016, 09:23 PM
Aquaforest Please Respond,

After further research and trying to learn...

If I'm correct your "Salt Mixes" ARE NOT (NaCl free salt) salt mixes.

Meaning: With out NaCl "Sodium chloride" it's not sea salt.

NaCl free salt mixes are made for the consumer to add the "Sodium chloride" while mixing the salt.

Is this a correct?

Before new water is added to a tank it must have "Sodium chloride".

Is this correct?

So, Component 1+ 2+ 3+ would make a great choice to be used with all brands of salt mixes!

Is this correct?

If I'm not correct with any part of this post, please explain so I can learn.

i got a bit puzzled by what you write

a) sea salt mixes: are "added to freshwater" and "generate seawater with a certain salinity" including macro & trace elements.
Target is to make your water "just like seawater" (normal mixes) or "at a bit elevated Ca/Alk/Mg/trace-Element level" (reef mixtures).
(Exact mixtures differ from brand to brand and type to type)

b) Balling salts or liquid stock solutions of Balling salts
these ones "raise your level" of ca Alk and also Mg (some types only)
AF 1+ and 2+ eg "raise Ca and Alk".
they are NOT sea salt mixes ! you US guys call them "2 part's"

c) "NaCl free salt"
this is a dry salt mixture (or available also as stock solution / liquid mix, eg in 3+) containing "several trace elements"most of it being "Mg salt".
It is called NaCl free because "no pure NaCl is in the mix of other salts"

The exact mix is unknown to me.
This is used to raise Mg and other trace element levels as your SPS/LPS "consume it". It is in no way a "sea salt mix" like under a)

dz6t
10/28/2016, 09:38 PM
Isn't there something like a shelf life stamp on the container?
i can hardly imagine that shelf life of such a product is as short.

What do you mean with "simply told me to go pound sand" ?

===========
also, one thing i fogot to write the first time: Of course it is absolutely NOT OK if some "pieces of whatever" (eg used grinding paper ?) are within an (unopened) salt bucket.

you wrote: "Additionally... I found what looks like used sandpaper in my mix"
Q: was this within the sealed part /bag in the bucket ? Just mixed in, so that you couldn't see it once you used the first amount of salt?

or was it just lying in the bucket and not within the sealed part ?

There is no shelf life stamp on any buckets.
They said that they were not going to do anything about it.
Also I was told to use the rocked (harden) salt despite I told them it did not dissolve completely. Also, they said the salt was OK to use if it did not turn BLUE.
No idea why the salt would turn blue.

dz6t
10/28/2016, 09:43 PM
I am talking about the Reef Salt, not the probio salt.

2dawghouse
10/28/2016, 10:14 PM
There is no shelf life stamp on any buckets.
They said that they were not going to do anything about it.
Also I was told to use the rocked (harden) salt despite I told them it did not dissolve completely. Also, they said the salt was OK to use if it did not turn BLUE.
No idea why the salt would turn blue.

Same here!!!! I did my experiment and the salt had a blue hue to it as well the salt in my bucket is slightly blue. The salt in my bucket and experiment will not dissolve completely. It leaves a residual in the bucket and my water is cloudy and dirty. This was an unopened bucket till I opened it.

2dawghouse
10/28/2016, 10:16 PM
I'm dumping this bucket. There is no way in hell I'm putting this in my tank

GoVols
10/28/2016, 10:25 PM
Martin,

1) Is AF "Reef Salt Mix" (NaCl free salt mix) or not?

2) Will Component 1+ 2+ 3+ stabilize out with any salt brand or do you have to use "AF salt mixes" for all 3 parts to work out evenly?

Yes, We are 2 part guys. (lol) Thanks to Randy Holmes-Farley

But it's really 2 part + Magnesium, making it a different 3 part than Balling. We just call it 2 part.

I'm looking forward to your answers to my questions.

Regards, GoVols

Rakie
10/28/2016, 10:39 PM
also, one thing i fogot to write the first time: Of course it is absolutely NOT OK if some "pieces of whatever" (eg used grinding paper ?) are within an (unopened) salt bucket.

you wrote: "Additionally... I found what looks like used sandpaper in my mix"
Q: was this within the sealed part /bag in the bucket ? Just mixed in, so that you couldn't see it once you used the first amount of salt?

or was it just lying in the bucket and not within the sealed part ?


It was deep in the bag -- I found it as I was mixing my second batch, it came up with a cup of salt sitting *just* at the top. if I had dug just a little less or more deep it would have stayed buried.

There's possibly more in there.

dz6t
10/28/2016, 11:02 PM
Hello,
From my understanding, binders are not used. For this reason, it is imperative that the salt is tied off and the lid on the bucket is re-sealed completely, as it will harden. I had a bucket towards the middle/ end of it's use do this, the reason was that I did not re-seal the bag or the bucket properly. I have since become very aware of this and the issue has never happened again. On another site, many who ordered from a specific online retailer had the same issue with the NEW salt arriving this way. The communication I received stated the salt is still ok to use, I used it to completion with no negative impacts on my reef. The only issue was that it did not mix as well as normal. Regards,

So it is an known issue with salt in sealed containers can harden then.

This is unacceptable and should be considered a faulty product.

I hope AquaForest can address this issue without simply ignoring it.

When the salt does not dissolved completely, it won't give the right composition of sea water. It is most likely precipitation of calcium and magnesium carbonate or other carbonate.

GoVols
10/28/2016, 11:39 PM
Hmmm... reading this is like a "Deja vu" for me.

Understanding everybody who is disappointed here, i would anyhow suggest to look for further clarification before everybody claims the manufacturer for delivering poor quality.
Give the AF guys a fair chance.

- at which exact salinity should the water have "too much Mg". Are you really sure this is at the salinity level AF is posting their values? including the Q report of the batch? Are you really sure that your measurement kits work correct and that you measure correctly?
(too high salinity too high Ca/Alk/Mg values !)

- shouldn't we do a X-Check of what was measured and stated to be out of specs with another, trusted source?
From my side i offer to check a sample "that is thought to be out of spec", fully indepentently.
For my salt measurements from ACalc i own quite reliable "measuring stuff"
a) calibrated Mettler-Toledo weigh + calibrated temp.measurement unit + TM Aeromter
b) Testkits for CA/Alk/Mg from Peter Gilbers which are the most trusted kits in Germany at the moment, checked for corrections factors with Multi-reference
however... somebody needs to send me a sample of the salt to germany....PM

units with arrived in "block form" obiously should not be part of of this.
Anyhow: the packaging might get damaged during transport without any fault from the manufacturers side, besides it would be a good idea to improve the packaging quality then ;
So... Kind of like saying WE and are test kits are good for Measuring SG and the "big 3" daily in our display reefs, but... US and are kits are garbage in measuring SG and the "Big 3" while mixing from one batch to another batch. Geezzzzz

GoVols
10/28/2016, 11:45 PM
So... Kind of like saying WE and are test kits are good for Measuring SG and the "big 3" daily in our display reefs, but... US and are kits are garbage in measuring SG and the "Big 3" while mixing from one batch to another batch. Geezzzzz
Oh Yeah, I forgot. "Shhh" look at AF's Coral Farm...

Potatohead
10/29/2016, 01:19 AM
So... Kind of like saying WE and are test kits are good for Measuring SG and the "big 3" daily in our display reefs, but... US and are kits are garbage in measuring SG and the "Big 3" while mixing from one batch to another batch. Geezzzzz

It's well known that hobby test kits are not ultra accurate. The testing AF does on batches IS ultra accurate. That's their point.

Martin Kuhn
10/29/2016, 02:11 AM
It was deep in the bag -- I found it as I was mixing my second batch, it came up with a cup of salt sitting *just* at the top. if I had dug just a little less or more deep it would have stayed buried.

There's possibly more in there.

This of course is definately NOT what it should be like.
@AF guys potentially reading this: So here you have some job to do. Improving the situation would be a good ideas. Checking first how this could happen, and letting us here know how it could. how will you avoid this in future? This would be my measures if i'd be responsible for the company.
good news here is :Sometimes issues like this showed up that they later on even improved trust levels of customers (nobody is perfect, but we should learn from our errors)

Martin Kuhn
10/29/2016, 02:21 AM
So... Kind of like saying WE and are test kits are good for Measuring SG and the "big 3" daily in our display reefs, but... US and are kits are garbage in measuring SG and the "Big 3" while mixing from one batch to another batch. Geezzzzz

I did not say that i don't trust your measurements. I just asked and offered to do a 2x check before blaming anybody.

I've been around in reef forums in Europe for quite a while now. I had SEVERAL cases where it pointed out that values taken for serious definately have been the wrong one.
Just some examples:
- Measurement tools for "spec. gravity" thought to ones for "(normal) density/gravity)
- Aerometers have been read wrong, "from above the water surface"
- No temperature measurement whilst measuring with tools that need this (Aerometers, Hydrometers, conductivity sensors). just the reading of "SG" or "density" allone do not tell you the salinity !
- SG values read from a refrak instead of using the psu scale which should be used
- Aerometers used inside tank for measuring
- Measurement tools used showed up to show wrong values
- Measurement errors, or test kits used wrong
- test kits used showed up to be scrap, gebnerating wrong results
- test kits (Ca,Alk,Mg,NO3,PO4) used have never or not recently been
- Ca/ALk/Mg values of salt mixes stated without telling how much the salinity was, AND/OR the salinity value is not to be trusted (see above)
checken with reference solutions. AND/Or values measured have not been corrected with the measured correction factors
and and and ... the complete list is even longer.
Do you want more ? ;)

Martin Kuhn
10/29/2016, 02:35 AM
Martin,

1) Is AF "Reef Salt Mix" (NaCl free salt mix) or not?

2) Will Component 1+ 2+ 3+ stabilize out with any salt brand or do you have to use "AF salt mixes" for all 3 parts to work out evenly?

Yes, We are 2 part guys. (lol) Thanks to Randy Holmes-Farley

But it's really 2 part + Magnesium, making it a different 3 part than Balling. We just call it 2 part.

I'm looking forward to your answers to my questions.

Regards, GoVols


1.) No. Definately not.
2.) Of course you can use it with all salt mix brands and sub types
It adapts your Ca and Alk levels because of your corals and other consumptions of your tank . Also it adds traces.

Take a look into AFs quite informative instructions (good job done here by AF!). You will find out the following
1+ CaCl2 x2H2O mixed in ROI
2+ MgCl2 x6H2O mixed in ROI
3+ NaCl free salt mixture mixed in ROI (Mg + other traces, not only Mg !)

for 1+2+ concentrations are in about "the same ratio" but "a bit lower concentrated" than Hans Werner original Balling formulation
concentration of 3+ is not stated by AF. Dosing to be used is "simpler to handle" than what Hans Werner suggested

for me it is "a slightly changed version of Hans-Werners original Balling formulation, sold as pre-mixed liquid solutions under a different name"



The next question that will arise by sure is: "andwhat is about eventual ion dis-balance" ?
lets not mix up things and discuss about this in another thread

GoVols
10/29/2016, 03:24 AM
I did not say that i don't trust your measurements. I just asked and offered to do a 2x check before blaming anybody.

I've been around in reef forums in Europe for quite a while now. I had SEVERAL cases where it pointed out that values taken for serious definately have been the wrong one.
Just some examples:
- Measurement tools for "spec. gravity" thought to ones for "(normal) density/gravity)
- Aerometers have been read wrong, "from above the water surface"
- No temperature measurement whilst measuring with tools that need this (Aerometers, Hydrometers, conductivity sensors). just the reading of "SG" or "density" allone do not tell you the salinity !
- SG values read from a refrak instead of using the psu scale which should be used
- Aerometers used inside tank for measuring
- Measurement tools used showed up to show wrong values
- Measurement errors, or test kits used wrong
- test kits used showed up to be scrap, gebnerating wrong results
- test kits (Ca,Alk,Mg,NO3,PO4) used have never or not recently been
- Ca/ALk/Mg values of salt mixes stated without telling how much the salinity was, AND/OR the salinity value is not to be trusted (see above)
checken with reference solutions. AND/Or values measured have not been corrected with the measured correction factors
and and and ... the complete list is even longer.
Do you want more ? ;)
If you read my first post

Cross checked against 3 different test kits. (Api / Red sea and Elos.

Also drove (The next day) mixed sample 30 miles to Nashville to my (LFS) and they matched my SG and the "Big 3".

I mix 3 - 5 gallon jugs once a week (At the Same Time) for my weekly water changes. Jug 1 finished my current bucket of salt. Opened new bucket and mixed into jugs 2 and 3 which tested to the low Cal and Alk #'s. All 3 jugs came in at 1.025 SG. Jug 1 was still holding NSW parameters.

I would never call Deep Water Aq or posted on here or Dr Foster & Smith without ruling out all possible option but the mix first. Even Deep Water told me sea mix must have be put in reef salt buckets. Well I could see it being OK the first time but after using 3 more buckets and hitting the same low #'s again is not a fluke.

I order six order's

#1 Dead on specs.
#2 Low #'s
#'s 3-5 Dead on Specs
#6 Low #'s

I don't claim be be a reef genius but after 30 years I've never had anybodies salt come in way off who provides QC sheets Like "Salinity". Also I've been around long enough to check anybodies parameter's when opening a new box or bucket. It maybe too late after you see things changing in your main display "for the worst".

It's also not good enough to say send sample Europe. If your going to sale in the states then support us here. When I called Deep Water and Salty Supply the first time they didn't want a sample or the bucket to test. They said all we can do is email Europe. If they did email Europe I wasn't asked to be copied on it. I also didn't ask for a replacement either. As a customer I shouldn't have to if Deep Water is not willing to test it. I guess they don't have the equipment or knowledge either...

Like I said in my post if I wanted to dose up while mixing I'd stayed with regular "Instant Ocean".

Still can't get a answer for any of my questions...

I'm going to ask the last one,--- one more time (Below)

Will Component 1+ 2+ 3+ Stabilize in equal daily dosing on all 3 parts with all major salt mix brands?

Getting this question answered is asking a politician something here in the USA!

2dawghouse
10/29/2016, 03:27 AM
This of course is definately NOT what it should be like.
@AF guys potentially reading this: So here you have some job to do. Improving the situation would be a good ideas. Checking first how this could happen, and letting us here know how it could. how will you avoid this in future? This would be my measures if i'd be responsible for the company.
good news here is :Sometimes issues like this showed up that they later on even improved trust levels of customers (nobody is perfect, but we should learn from our errors)

This is exactly my thoughts. I never said I wouldon't use AF products again. I've been very pleased with their products up till this batch of salt. And I understand stuff happens and products go sideways. But to hear AF acknowledge this shows competency and a willing to fix it so that we as consumers can be assured this won't be an ongoing issue.

GoVols
10/29/2016, 03:29 AM
If you read my first post

Cross checked against 3 different test kits. (Api / Red sea and Elos.

Also drove (The next day) mixed sample 30 miles to Nashville to my (LFS) and they matched my SG and the "Big 3".

I mix 3 - 5 gallon jugs once a week (At the Same Time) for my weekly water changes. Jug 1 finished my current bucket of salt. Opened new bucket and mixed into jugs 2 and 3 which tested to the low Cal and Alk #'s. All 3 jugs came in at 1.025 SG. Jug 1 was still holding NSW parameters.

I would never call Deep Water Aq or posted on here or Dr Foster & Smith without ruling out all possible option but the mix first. Even Deep Water told me sea mix must have be put in reef salt buckets. Well I could see it being OK the first time but after using 3 more buckets and hitting the same low #'s again is not a fluke.

I order six order's

#1 Dead on specs.
#2 Low #'s
#'s 3-5 Dead on Specs
#6 Low #'s

I don't claim be be a reef genius but after 30 years I've never had anybodies salt come in way off who provides QC sheets Like "Salinity". Also I've been around long enough to check anybodies parameter's when opening a new box or bucket. It maybe too late after you see things changing in your main display "for the worst".

It's also not good enough to say send sample Europe. If your going to sale in the states then support us here. When I called Deep Water and Salty Supply the first time they didn't want a sample or the bucket to test. They said all we can do is email Europe. If they did email Europe I wasn't asked to be copied on it. I also didn't ask for a replacement either. As a customer I shouldn't have to if Deep Water is not willing to test it. I guess they don't have the equipment or knowledge either...

Like I said in my post if I wanted to dose up while mixing I'd stayed with regular "Instant Ocean".

Still can't get a answer for any of my questions...

I'm going to ask the last one,--- one more time (Below)

Will Component 1+ 2+ 3+ Stabilize in equal daily dosing on all 3 parts with all major salt mix brands?

Getting this question answered is asking a politician something here in the USA!
Never Mind, I see you did respond to that question. My Bad

Deep Water told me it had to AF or Tropic Marin salt Mixes.

Deep Water needs to be educated too. I would have stayed with Comp. 1-3+ if they haven't told this miss guided info.

GoVols
10/29/2016, 04:05 AM
It's well known that hobby test kits are not ultra accurate. The testing AF does on batches IS ultra accurate. That's their point.
When your params. Mix to 350 Cal and 6 Alk.

That's not even getting into the "Ultra Accurate".

That's getting into the dosing while mixing point.

I'm wasn't buying AF to dose and never had to with "Salinity". Always mixed with reason to NSW and their QC encoded on each bucket,

That's my point.

Martin Kuhn
10/29/2016, 05:39 AM
Still can't get a answer for any of my questions...

I'm going to ask the last one,--- one more time (Below)

Will Component 1+ 2+ 3+ Stabilize in equal daily dosing on all 3 parts with all major salt mix brands?

Getting this question answered is asking a politician something here in the USA!

Sorry in case i make you upset, this is not my intention

There is no senseful answer to your question!
- it doesn't have to do anything the brands or types of salt !
- 1+2+3+ is an Ca/Alk adaptation system with Mg and traces, that's it - full stop-
- None of this systems can "stabilize in equal dosing" what millions of different aquariums world-wide "consume". that is IMPOSSIBLE
- I doubt also that there will be a system you are asking for in future. The only chance to do that is "automatically and steadily measuring AND adapting" with .... whatever you call it

this answer is not political, but it is technical wise correct

by the way
if there is the impression that i'm working for any distributor, i can answer with a clear NO.

What i'm writing here just as a fan of this hobby. Fully independent, but with "some existing experience and i think also KnowHow"

i just tried to help to puzzle out things here.
Maybe i shouldn't

dz6t
10/29/2016, 05:44 AM
And I understand stuff happens and products go sideways. But to hear AF acknowledge this shows competency and a willing to fix it so that we as consumers can be assured this won't be an ongoing issue.

So far I am still using AF salt and I hope AF will start to pay attention to these issues.

Aquaforest
10/31/2016, 04:19 AM
@AquaForest

How true is this " Component 1+ 2+ 3+ will only work with AF or Tropic Marin salts to stabilize ions" Need to be NaCl free salt???

Is this the cause of SPS STNing just after couple days of dosing COMP123???

Component 1+2+3+ is based on Balling Method - but not the same.
It contains:
1+ Ca, Mg, Sr, Ba, Co, Mn, Cu, Fe, Zn, Ni, Cr
2+ NaHCO3, F, I
3+ Mineral salts, K, Bo.

GoVols
12/05/2016, 08:22 PM
This is exactly my thoughts. I never said I wouldon't use AF products again. I've been very pleased with their products up till this batch of salt. And I understand stuff happens and products go sideways. But to hear AF acknowledge this shows competency and a willing to fix it so that we as consumers can be assured this won't be an ongoing issue.
I never saw AF open up or this forum about any QC issues. Not ever new buckets of block hard salt or the trash in Rakies salt. Must less mixed parameters not matching QC sheets like low alk and 1500 mag.

Martin Kuhn did but he's not part of Aquaforest. At lease he came on here and tried to help us.

The only thing I've seen AF own up to was "Were's the Suffer: thread.
People sent in samples to Triton Labs and it showed low suffer.

Finally AF responded that they are trying to fix their QC for suffer.

With no official response from AF it leaves me to believe they think we don't know how to mix salt, not going to fix their QC issues or going to try to fix their QC and not going to say anything.

If AF said they've looked into and resolved these issues beginning with certain new batch #'s I'd switch back to their Reef Salt. (ASAP)

Rakie
12/05/2016, 09:05 PM
They never sent me the replacement bucket of Salt they promised either. Their non salt products seem fine. Even their salt initially gave me some good PE in my SPS, which leads me to believe the initial WC wasn't enough to swing my dKH, but WAS bringing in other good things.

AquaForest has proven to not care about customer support or Quality Control.

In their other products I've used, I've had stellar results -- But even the packaging leaves something to be desired. My bottle of -NP Pro was a 10ml bottle, as someone who had only a 29g tank, a single drop was a dose. This 10ml bottle came half empty, and tested out to a little over 7ml. Additionally, my Pro bio S is also 10ml, but seems to have about 9-10ml after *heavy* use.

So "10ml" apparently means "7-15ml, depending on which way the wind is blowing that day".

What blows me away here is how nice some of their products genuinely are, yet how they can't even manage to get 10ml of the product into a 10ml bottle... It's both a complete shame, and shows extremely poor QUALITY control.

biecacka
12/05/2016, 10:06 PM
Is it possible that the salt is still in the mail or something? I am blown away at the level of CS they are showing. I was considering some of their products.....
Corey

GoVols
12/05/2016, 11:05 PM
They never sent me the replacement bucket of Salt they promised either. Their non salt products seem fine. Even their salt initially gave me some good PE in my SPS, which leads me to believe the initial WC wasn't enough to swing my dKH, but WAS bringing in other good things.

AquaForest has proven to not care about customer support or Quality Control.

In their other products I've used, I've had stellar results -- But even the packaging leaves something to be desired. My bottle of -NP Pro was a 10ml bottle, as someone who had only a 29g tank, a single drop was a dose. This 10ml bottle came half empty, and tested out to a little over 7ml. Additionally, my Pro bio S is also 10ml, but seems to have about 9-10ml after *heavy* use.

So "10ml" apparently means "7-15ml, depending on which way the wind is blowing that day".

What blows me away here is how nice some of their products genuinely are, yet how they can't even manage to get 10ml of the product into a 10ml bottle... It's both a complete shame, and shows extremely poor QUALITY control.
Rakie, Thanks for stepping back up to the plate for us, again!

You started this thread and look at all the reports that came in from concerned reefers. Sold blocks of salt and way off parameters to AF QC sheet / Blue and brown salt mix.

Not to mention how many don't check their parameters, wont post or no nothing about Reef Central.

I started their reef salt as soon as it hit the USA. I would love to say all has been well too. I reported and posted my findings for the truth. Reefers and AF can take it or leave it.

I can't believe you still haven't got a replacement bucket and you even had Jabba the Hut floating in there.

I do agree some of their products are great. Component 1+ 2+ 3+ was the most stable dosing product I ever used once lock in.

But the sad fact is (To This Day) AF has TRULY never responded to your thread or any of us pertaining to any of these issues.

They may be caring people as one poster said, but their utter silence to this thread tells me all I need to know.

Regards, GoVols

Rakie
12/05/2016, 11:11 PM
Is it possible that the salt is still in the mail or something? I am blown away at the level of CS they are showing. I was considering some of their products.....
Corey

Well they contacted me in PM about it over a month ago.. I suppose it may still be in the mail, but 1 1/2 months is quite awhile. Even worse, their products that have shown themselves to be of quality for me aren't even reliably filled.

I'm not sure what the heck is going on with this company. It seems like it's run by children.

Did you notice how they refused to even outright acknowledge the foreign objects in my container? They didn't ask about them, comment about them, or respond to questions about them.. I had no problems from this company until i tried to contact them.

GoVols
12/05/2016, 11:14 PM
FYI,

My goal was to get Tropic Marin Pro Reef quality for AF pricing, about a little over a year ago. It just didn't work out for me.

I think you said TMPR had QC issues. From my memory that was around 2012 (low alk).

This happened after TM charged the TMPR formula and was fixed. They also don't put QC sheets in their buckets.

GoVols
12/05/2016, 11:25 PM
Is it possible that the salt is still in the mail or something? I am blown away at the level of CS they are showing. I was considering some of their products.....
Corey
Their only level of customers service on this thread has been to send AF a sample to Poland.

So their #'s are good for the batch that was made but your bucket might not mix up to what the entire batch measured?

Maybe they need to roll their BATCH around before putting in buckets? (lol)

Rakie
12/05/2016, 11:40 PM
FYI,

My goal was to get Tropic Marin Pro Reef quality for AF pricing, about a little over a year ago. It just didn't work out for me.

I think you said TMPR had QC issues. From my memory that was around 2012 (low alk).

This happened after TM charged the TMPR formula and was fixed. They also don't put QC sheets in their buckets.

I liked my TM, but a lot of other people said they had iffy QC, so I didn't go for it.

Truthfully now I'm using Fritz -- It's pretty amazing. Since walking away from Red Sea and trying TM Probio, AF Reef, IO, and finally Fritz -- My Journey is done for awhile. Fritz hasn't let me down one bit, and all those I know whove tried it have nothing but stellar results. My club had a group buy recently, my only complaint is I bought 1 box instead of 5 or 6.

GoVols
12/06/2016, 12:07 AM
I liked my TM, but a lot of other people said they had iffy QC, so I didn't go for it.

Truthfully now I'm using Fritz -- It's pretty amazing. Since walking away from Red Sea and trying TM Probio, AF Reef, IO, and finally Fritz -- My Journey is done for awhile. Fritz hasn't let me down one bit, and all those I know whove tried it have nothing but stellar results. My club had a group buy recently, my only complaint is I bought 1 box instead of 5 or 6.
I read up on Randy Holmes-Farley and he only uses IO purple but has stated Fritz is very good. I've seen their web site.

Since AF went to Brightwell / Finishing up the last of my Reef Crystals and going to settle back into Tropic Marin Pro Reef again for the long haul.

plyle02
12/06/2016, 06:14 AM
@Rakie,
Hi it is Perry, I think we may have interacted in the past? Anyway, I support AF, but am only here to provide that support to help guide AF users, I apologize for the inconvenience and lack of communication. Hopefully you will get a response soon. I have sent a message concerning this thread to the AF directly. If I can assist any further please reach out to me :)

Rakie
12/06/2016, 02:20 PM
@Rakie,
Hi it is Perry, I think we may have interacted in the past? Anyway, I support AF, but am only here to provide that support to help guide AF users, I apologize for the inconvenience and lack of communication. Hopefully you will get a response soon. I have sent a message concerning this thread to the AF directly. If I can assist any further please reach out to me :)

Yes we have, Thank you very much Perry! You've actually given me some great advice about AF products -- And as I stated, their products haven't let me down one bit until this salt came in.

Even with a dKH of 5.8, I did a water change (without checking params) and my corals all liked it at first. Which tells me there's other goodies in the mix which my corals did appreciate -- But after testing params, I knew my Alk would start dropping if I kept up WC's with this particular product.

GoVols
12/06/2016, 04:00 PM
Hi Perry,
I'm thankful that your here to help us "USE" AF products on Reef Central!

As far as "Customer Service" goes on these QC issues, AF (Poland) should have came on here and addressed any of these post.

If you have a bad bucket: Send Sample to Poland. That's just cra cra...
This is just PITA for customers, it's not USA Customer Service!

Rakies new bucket: Seems like all AF (Poland) needed to do is call/email Deep Water Aquatics with his info and he'd have a new bucket in like 3 days.

Now it's like email us and we not going to follow threw.

Maybe AF (Poland), Truly doesn't understand what Customer Service means in the USA?

Aquaforest
12/09/2016, 03:23 PM
Hello,
To respond to some of the issues that have been discussed here on this thread, Aquaforest would like to apologize for any concerns regarding our salt.

Rakie, Deepwater will be sending you a bucket of Reef Salt for your troubles, hopefully your refund for the original salt has reached you. The issue was found to be in fact sandpaper that is used to clean the machine that mixes the salt. We apologize that this object was found in your salt container, we have discussed this with Quality Control to ensure this does not happen again. Thank you very much for you patience regarding this matter.

Hardened salt does happen from time to time, the salt comes from Poland to the United States, from there it is air freighted to various parts of the US. Sometimes with high altitude and/or extreme temperature changes, this can happen. Should this happen, please email us, and Deepwater will quickly replace.

With Quality Control the salts are tested using our ICP machine, but it is possible for them to vary from batch to batch. Please realize we are working with our Quality team to make sure that these statistics found in each of our buckets or boxes is better represented by the stat sheet.

Thank you to all US customers, we are trying to add more support people to our team and hope to improve the customer experience. Thank you for your patience and understanding.

Sincerely,
Team Aquaforest

GoVols
12/09/2016, 06:31 PM
Hello,
To respond to some of the issues that have been discussed here on this thread, Aquaforest would like to apologize for any concerns regarding our salt.

Rakie, Deepwater will be sending you a bucket of Reef Salt for your troubles, hopefully your refund for the original salt has reached you. The issue was found to be in fact sandpaper that is used to clean the machine that mixes the salt. We apologize that this object was found in your salt container, we have discussed this with Quality Control to ensure this does not happen again. Thank you very much for you patience regarding this matter.

Hardened salt does happen from time to time, the salt comes from Poland to the United States, from there it is air freighted to various parts of the US. Sometimes with high altitude and/or extreme temperature changes, this can happen. Should this happen, please email us, and Deepwater will quickly replace.

With Quality Control the salts are tested using our ICP machine, but it is possible for them to vary from batch to batch. Please realize we are working with our Quality team to make sure that these statistics found in each of our buckets or boxes is better represented by the stat sheet.

Thank you to all US customers, we are trying to add more support people to our team and hope to improve the customer experience. Thank you for your patience and understanding.

Sincerely,
Team Aquaforest
Hello AF,

This is a "Stand up" response and better QC action's being taken to these issues within AF.

If I come to the conclusion (over time) that the reef salt has consist parameters from bucket to bucket or box to box to the QC sheets then I be going back to your "Reef Salt".

It takes a big person/corporation to say I have some issues but how do I go from here it and improve.

Regards, GoVols

Rakie
12/09/2016, 10:49 PM
This thread basically faded away until someone asked a question, a bit later it sparked back to life.

So first and Foremost, I contacted the company I purchased it from right away for a refund. I originally wasn't planning to use this salt again -- When I was first contacted by AF, I truly believed either in direct message or in this thread I had mentioned getting the refund right away. *Then* I was offered a new bucket of salt after the fact. I have deleted my messages with AF so I genuinely can't make sure if I had or had not specified this. Due to the order of these events I was under the impression the new bucket of salt was offered in addition to the refund, as mine had the previously disclosed items within it.

I was contacted yesterday by AF as this thread has come back to life and Perry had been kind enough to bring it to their attention. They asked if I had received a refund, and that is when I realized there was a communication error..

AF graciously offered to send me a new bucket after I had explained my misinterpretation, and they have disclosed what the paper was, and that the paper had indeed been used on metals. The replacement bucket was unnecessary, but I will absolutely accept and fully test it, posting the results here (or possibly in a new thread). Additionally, I will make sure to sift the product as well.

Aqua Forest stepping in to say definitively that the foreign objects in my salt were indeed sandpaper scraps that were used on metals makes me quite happy. It makes me happy not only because I'm apparently a garbage detective, but because we finally got the answer to "what the heck IS that thing?". In my message to them, I had said our biggest concern was that the paper hadn't been explained or even acknowledged. They absolutely heard me, and responded for all of us.


So again, thank you VERY much for getting back in touch with us Aqua Forest, and thank you for telling us what the paper was. I will absolutely test your new salt when it's received, and will gladly post the results. Stay tuned :)

GoVols
04/01/2017, 05:35 PM
Time to bump this thread, again!

It saddens me that AF says their fixing the QC issues on 12/9 and totally ignored this thread until that day.

Today, I'm poking around the BRS website and hit the AF reef salt.

Look at the reviews on the AF salt. The QC sheet is still garbage and dirty water????

Nothing has changed!!!!!!!!!!!

120reefer
04/01/2017, 07:37 PM
Time to bump this thread, again!

It saddens me that AF says their fixing the QC issues on 12/9 and totally ignored this thread until that day.

Today, I'm poking around the BRS website and hit the AF reef salt.

Look at the reviews on the AF salt. The QC sheet is still garbage and dirty water????

Nothing has changed!!!!!!!!!!!



Are you still using AF Reef salt?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

GoVols
04/03/2017, 02:22 PM
With Quality Control the salts are tested using our ICP machine, but it is possible for them to vary from batch to batch. Please realize we are working with our Quality team to make sure that these statistics found in each of our buckets or boxes is better represented by the stat sheet.

Hello AF Poland,
You said you were fixing the issue in the above statement and I stated that if you resolved this problem that I would come back.

I'm still seeing #'s not matching to your QC sheets on forums and Bulk Reef Supply reviews on your "Reef Salt".

This has nothing to do with the US support on these forums. They are wonderful and this is not in their control.

Can you help me understand why the problem still exist?

Regards, GoVols

Debora
04/08/2017, 12:31 AM
Hello AF Poland,
You said you were fixing the issue in the above statement and I stated that if you resolved this problem that I would come back.

I'm still seeing #'s not matching to your QC sheets on forums and Bulk Reef Supply reviews on your "Reef Salt".

This has nothing to do with the US support on these forums. They are wonderful and this is not in their control.

Can you help me understand why the problem still exist?

Regards, GoVols

Hello GoVols,
Are you using Aquaforest Salt? Parameters of your salt mix do not match to quality certificate? Can you please contact me via PM and send me photo of batch number? I am sure that I can help you.

Piper27
04/08/2017, 09:31 AM
I think he is saying he wants the issue fixed so that he can rely on the salt so he can switch back to using it.

I am not even going to test my salt.... My parameters stay in range when I test and that's all I care about. The salt mixes so well I don't want to find out it's numbers of off. As long as all is not off I can live with some higher levels.

GoVols
04/08/2017, 01:31 PM
Hello GoVols,
Are you using Aquaforest Salt? Parameters of your salt mix do not match to quality certificate? Can you please contact me via PM and send me photo of batch number? I am sure that I can help you.

Hello Debora,
Piper27 is spot on.
When is AF Poland going to state starting with certain new batch #'s the issue is resolved.

If I get another bucket and the parameters are through the roof what do I do at that one moment? If I use it then Comp 1-3 is not locked in anymore.

I deeply feel that the batch matches the AF QC sheet but the salt varies from
bucket to bucket.

Rakie's batch an the BRS batch was 4 day apart last summer.

We had this thread going last Oct. and AF Poland knew there's a problem way before BRS was stocked with the reef salt.

So AF Poland had time to make a decision. They decided to let those summer batches reach BRS.

I was one of the first that began using the AF salt in the US in 2015. Then I went with Comp 1-3 that came to the US later.

Over the long time period that I used the reef salt, I bought 6 buckets. Some from Amazon and some from Salty Supply. I could not get it anywhere else back then.

Out of the 6 buckets, 4 were spot on and 2 mixed up to your sea salt mix parameters as stated on this thread, so I have not bought any reef salt since May of 2016 when my bucket #6 matched my bucket #2. I dosed up those buckets while mixing.

I'm back on regular IO that I used for most time over the past 2 decades. Some batches I do dose up from them but they do not put in QC sheets.

I truly hoped that this thread was the end of it and I would like to come back to the your reef salt but then the same thing hits the BRS buckets.

I used Seachem "Salinity" for over a year and it always mixed within a very tight margin to the QC sticker on their buckets but I did not like the fact that if I stored it and did not use it ASAP then the alk would precipt. down but Seachem states that it will do that.

I want to come back to the AF reef salt but since 2015 until now the salt varies too much from the QC sheet for me to trust to what my next bucket may mix up to. A PM or replacement does nothing to help me at that moment when I'm ready to make a water change.

Regards, GoVols

basser1
04/09/2017, 03:58 PM
Now you all have me wondering what salt mix I should use. I used to use Red Sea Coral Pro, but I got tired of messing with the high Alk it has. So I switched to a bucket of AF pro-biotic salt. I'm due for another bucket soon, but after reading this thread, I'm not too sure.

120reefer
04/10/2017, 12:44 PM
Thought I'd share this with all of you.[emoji4]

https://reefhub.pl/sol-akwarystyczna-test-porownawczy/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

GoVols
04/10/2017, 12:57 PM
Thought I'd share this with all of you.[emoji4]

https://reefhub.pl/sol-akwarystyczna-test-porownawczy/

Lol,
I can not read polock... :)

Can somebody translate?

I see a lot of salts brands in the picture except Tropic Marin??????????

If is not stating that the consistency issues from bucket to bucket on this thread has been fixed, then it means nothing to myself as a customer.

I'm waiting AF Poland's response to my post #77 :)

Thanks, GoVols

120reefer
04/10/2017, 01:00 PM
You might not be able to read the wording but you can see the charts.

I'm getting information out as soon as I get it. [emoji4]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

GoVols
04/10/2017, 01:18 PM
You might not be able to read the wording but you can see the charts.

I'm getting information out as soon as I get it. [emoji4]

Thank You!

I can see the charts but what does that have to do with buckets not matching the QC sheets?

I'm guessing AF salt looks good in these charts but how could TM Pro Reef be missing?

Thanks, GoVols

Barteks
04/10/2017, 03:09 PM
I am the author of the article, and I would like to bring your attention to the fact that you have no copyrights for publishing this translation without my permission.
Full translation of the document will be available in the next couple of days.
Please remove it immediately.
Regards,

Bart Stanczyk

120reefer
04/10/2017, 03:14 PM
I am the author of the article, and I would like to bring your attention to the fact that you have no copyrights for publishing this translation without my permission.
Full translation of the document will be available in the next couple of days.
Please remove it immediately.
Regards,

Bart Stanczyk



http://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/faqs/copyright-protection/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Potatohead
04/10/2017, 03:15 PM
lol

120reefer
04/10/2017, 03:19 PM
For future reference I will remove it but I really have no duty to do so.
http://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/faqs/copyright-protection/



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Barteks
04/10/2017, 03:21 PM
Thank you.
It will be available in English in the next couple of days.

Potatohead
04/10/2017, 03:24 PM
Better put Google on your hit list :rolleyes:

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa1/RabidRabbit33/translate_zpsvcp4bmag.jpg (http://s200.photobucket.com/user/RabidRabbit33/media/translate_zpsvcp4bmag.jpg.html)

Barteks
04/10/2017, 03:29 PM
It is different to read auto-translated text on my page and copying it to another website. I invested a lot of time to do the test to write it. As I said, in the next couple of days it will be fully translated.

120reefer
04/10/2017, 03:30 PM
I sent a request to admin to have those posts removed.

Your welcome. [emoji4]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

GoVols
04/10/2017, 03:36 PM
Thank you.
It will be available in English in the next couple of days.

Why is Tropic Marin Pro Reef not in your testing?

GoVols
04/10/2017, 03:49 PM
I sent a request to admin to have those posts removed.

Your welcome. [emoji4]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
120reefer,

Can you start a new thread when it's in English?

I don't see any connection with this study to the issues on this thread.

Regards, GoVols

120reefer
04/10/2017, 05:56 PM
I believe the author will be posting a link when his translation is complete.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

120reefer
04/14/2017, 07:07 PM
Here is the promised link .

https://reefhub.pl/test-of-marine-salts-which-one-is-the-best/



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

plyle02
04/18/2017, 03:33 PM
Hey Freddie,
Aquaforest will now include batch tests online instead of a QC slip in each bucket. This is in effort to move towards what the industry on a whole is doing. I think Debora was trying to indicate that the tests in these results were due to the salinity being 35ppt as opposed to 33ppt where the QC was indicated on this batch. Hopefully this will make things a bit easier on hobbyists. I am fairly certain that a batch out there was over fortified with minerals, this was several months back, I am not certain, as I do not have access to the equipment or manufacturing.
Cheers my friend!

GoVols
04/18/2017, 04:11 PM
Hey Freddie,
Aquaforest will now include batch tests online instead of a QC slip in each bucket. This is in effort to move towards what the industry on a whole is doing. I think Debora was trying to indicate that the tests in these results were due to the salinity being 35ppt as opposed to 33ppt where the QC was indicated on this batch. Hopefully this will make things a bit easier on hobbyists. I am fairly certain that a batch out there was over fortified with minerals, this was several months back, I am not certain, as I do not have access to the equipment or manufacturing.
Cheers my friend!
Moderator,
Please delete my last post #95 as I asked you in my PM.

Hi Perry,
I'm just done with the whole thing. We can argue until the end of time but I'm done.

We can all look a year from now and see if it's truly been fixed.

We are friends and I hope your new job is going well. Have you started your office build yet?

Regards, Freddie

2una
04/18/2017, 04:29 PM
Is this becoming a salinity argument now?
1) If my nutrients are high its better not to use AF Probiotic right? So one must not mix Reefsalt to 35ppt ?
2) If i use Probiotic & want to hit hard on some water changes because of issues once again its not a good thing to do that with Probiotic so you need to use Reefsalt BUT once again don't use 35ppt ?.

I DO NOT WANT MY TANK AT 1500 Mg

Note the test below done Oct 2016 by AF's own ICP @ 33.5ppt & its still 1514 mg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2926/34126227585_6f99213781_z.jpg

The same table is here
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24924613&postcount=179
(you need to scroll down a bit)

This is not just a US thing - there's post's in a UK forum about it as well with people ditching AF because of AF's lack of openness about the issue.
Anyway i was happily sorted out by AF but i'm not hooking into water changes to have my tank end up at 1500 Mg so i've walked to another brand.

AF Rep's this ain't your beef,you guys do a great job,it's the people above that are still printing b/s QC card's that need to sort their end out.
My Reefsalt QC card said 34ppt & Mg 1300......
My Mg was 1550 @ 35ppt

plyle02
04/18/2017, 04:49 PM
Moderator,
Please delete my last post #95 as I asked you in my PM.

Hi Perry,
I'm just done with the whole thing. We can argue until the end of time but I'm done.

We can all look a year from now and see if it's truly been fixed.

We are friends and I hope your new job is going well. Have you started your office build yet?

Regards, Freddie

Freddie,
I apologize regarding the Aquaforest products and not getting the consistency and results, but yes, at the end of the day we are all reefing buddies, despite our differences. I have the office build going, it is looking great, but used fresh air rock from fiji, and it is stinking up the whole place, lol...
Cheers

BrianD
04/18/2017, 05:06 PM
Moderator,
Please delete my last post #95 as I asked you in my PM.

Hi Perry,
I'm just done with the whole thing. We can argue until the end of time but I'm done.

We can all look a year from now and see if it's truly been fixed.

We are friends and I hope your new job is going well. Have you started your office build yet?

Regards, Freddie

If you want a post removed, you need to report the relevant post. A moderator may not have the time to search for the post in question.

GoVols
04/18/2017, 05:09 PM
If you want a post removed, you need to report the relevant post. A moderator may not have the time to search for the post in question.
I did, and he did.

Thank, You!

GoVols
04/18/2017, 05:54 PM
Is this becoming a salinity argument now?
1) If my nutrients are high its better not to use AF Probiotic right? So one must not mix Reefsalt to 35ppt ?
2) If i use Probiotic & want to hit hard on some water changes because of issues once again its not a good thing to do that with Probiotic so you need to use Reefsalt BUT once again don't use 35ppt ?.

I DO NOT WANT MY TANK AT 1500 Mg

Note the test below done Oct 2016 by AF's own ICP @ 33.5ppt & its still 1514 mg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2926/34126227585_6f99213781_z.jpg

The same table is here
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24924613&postcount=179
(you need to scroll down a bit)

This is not just a US thing - there's post's in a UK forum about it as well with people ditching AF because of AF's lack of openness about the issue.
Anyway i was happily sorted out by AF but i'm not hooking into water changes to have my tank end up at 1500 Mg so i've walked to another brand.

AF Rep's this ain't your beef,you guys do a great job,it's the people above that are still printing b/s QC card's that need to sort their end out.
My Reefsalt QC card said 34ppt & Mg 1300......
My Mg was 1550 @ 35ppt
2una,
Thank you!

This is nothing new.

AF Poland,
Please read my post #50 carefully. That was twice between 2015 and late spring of 2016. It has nothing to do with your bad last summer batches. I was told by Deep Water that AF must have put Sea Salt in the reef salt buckets. (Twice) Don't send sample and your not getting a replacement bucket. We will email Poland.

You say you've fixed the consistency issues.
Then tell us what was the problem and how you fixed it, and no more PM's.

What are the new fixed batch #'s / buckets and when can I get some?

The support team is awesome but they can not speak for Poland.

Regards, Freddie

malady
04/18/2017, 10:22 PM
I am really impressed with this brand and have had good luck with the two buckets of reef salt I have bought.

But reading this thread seriously has me cautious to buy another bucket.

ryanvan
04/18/2017, 10:55 PM
I just tested mine and my mag is at 1490 . Alk was low at 6.4. Cal was good at 430. Salinity at 35 ppt. The box of reef salt purchased in Feb.

Debora
04/19/2017, 12:24 AM
2una,
Thank you!

This is nothing new.

AF Poland,
Please read my post #50 carefully. That was twice between 2015 and late spring of 2016. It has nothing to do with your bad last summer batches. I was told by Deep Water that AF must have put Sea Salt in the reef salt buckets. (Twice) Don't send sample and your not getting a replacement bucket. We will email Poland.

You say you've fixed the consistency issues.
Then tell us what was the problem and how you fixed it, and no more PM's.

What are the new fixed batch #'s / buckets and when can I get some?

The support team is awesome but they can not speak for Poland.

Regards, Freddie

Hi,
I asked you and offer to send you new salt but you didn't want get it that's why I asked: What do you expect from us?

I am still waiting for informations about your batch number, your results of your salts.
Please, send me informations.

soreninkl
04/19/2017, 03:11 AM
Hi,
I asked: What do you expect from us?



I think at first he expected to have some sort of proper customer support and obviously, he did not get any, as a fact he told you

that a long time ago! I would not say that I'm very happy with your "reef salt" mix, high mag/cal and low alk but I can tell you

that such issues need to be addressed quickly and solved in a professional manner.

By the time we request information from AF direct we will be redirected to bring up enquires at certain forums thus, everybody could

benefit by reading it and AF does not need to answer similar questions again. Yet, you respond to the actual questions but ignore the

details.

Anyway, only my 2 cents

GoVols
04/19/2017, 08:58 AM
Hi,
I asked you and offer to send you new salt but you didn't want get it that's why I asked: What do you expect from us?

I am still waiting for informations about your batch number, your results of your salts.
Please, send me informations.

It is very obvious that you have not took the time to read this entire thread.

If you did... Your question has already been answered from me, Over and Over.

I have nothing to say in PM's and AF seems to have a world wide issue.

You still, will not answer my questions in my last post and that is what I expect from AF Poland.


Regards, GoVols

GoVols
04/19/2017, 09:14 AM
To AF Poland,

You say you've fixed the consistency issues.
Then tell us what was the problem and how you fixed it?

What are the new fixed batch #'s / buckets and when can I get some?

Regards, GoVols

Aquaforest
04/20/2017, 06:29 AM
All batches available in USA and other countries are good. The Problem was fixed immediately. You can buy salt without worries. We are in touch with distributors, stores, dealers all the time. Unfortunately - most problems with parameters that we have seen on the forums are showing problems with measuring by home tests kits. If someone has problems with our salt - tests kits are showing higher/lower results than in Quality Certificate - please contact us and send us a sample of the salt . In order for us to see what your situation maybe then we need to have salt to test it. We are talking about parameters/numbers but we didnt get a sample of salt to test it on ICP-OES spectrometer.

About our Quality CertificatesAquaforest products are manufactured in the EU under strict laboratory supervision to meet the highest quality standards. Each product is prepared from carefully selected raw components in quantities proven to yield consistent composition.

How is our Marine Salt product range tested?
We mix our Marine Salt in 1 metric tonne (2204lb) batches, and 3 separate samples per batch are collected during the production stage for testing. Each of these samples is dissolved in 15 litres (4US gal) of RO water. Our experienced team of professionals perform ICP-OES analysis to verify that the chemical composition is within consistent range, and to rule out the presence of unwanted contaminants at the same time.
Note:
Even though our salt is thoroughly mixed, not every bucket/box will be identical. The parameters can vary slightly between containers and around a 2-3% variation is acceptable. This fluctuation is a result of both physical properties of the mix and the limitations of the processing techniques available.
These variations are still smaller than the typical margin for error for popular hobbyist test kits.

How to identify the Batch number of my Aquaforest Salt?
Labels displaying Batch numbers are present in 2 locations:
On the outside of the bucket or cardboard box
Inside the packaging (e.g. on the inside of the bucket lid or cardboard box)


Sometimes my home tests show different parameters to those stated on the label. Why?
There are no hobbyist test kits available on the market that are able to measure small discrepancies with 100% accuracy. Variations of parameters are typically still smaller than the acceptable error of the test kits available, and therefore there is little chance of a negative impact on aquarium life.

How to prepare salt for testing?
We recommend to prepare at least 15 litres (4 US gal) of saltwater.
Mix your RO water with 585g (20.63oz) of salt, and perform the test at least 2 hours after fully dissolved. Always check the salinity in which the test was made, as this will influence the measured parameters. A salinity refractometer is recommended, together with a calibration fluid.
*Note that salinity readings also depend on the temperature. Please check your salinity at 20C (68F).

If you detect a small difference in parameters between your tank and the salt, the impact is also minor.
For example if you make the typical recommended 10% water change, the change in parameters of your tank will only be 10% of the difference.

If the Calcium level in your aquarium is 430ppm and the water change water is 450ppm, the difference is 20ppm. But as you are actually only changing 10% of aquarium volume, 10% of that 20ppm is only 2ppm. Changing water this way, with that discrepancy, would only result in a difference of 2ppm of Calcium. Thats 0.5%.

E.g.
Tank Ca = 430ppm
New salt water Ca=450ppm
The difference: 450-430 =20ppm
Estimated impact: 10% *20 =2
Tank Ca after change will be 432ppm

That difference (Ca - 2ppm) should be consumed in few hours.

Regards,
Aquaforest

2una
04/20/2017, 12:01 PM
I don't know whether to laugh or cry....Just LOL

120reefer
04/20/2017, 12:13 PM
Are you using AF salt? Are you having problems?? Not trying to stir the pot here but if you are an Aquaforest customer and you are having salt parameter issues then I'd suggest you send them a sample. [emoji4]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

MichaelW
04/20/2017, 01:15 PM
I havnt tested my fresh made saltwater and dont really see much of a need 2. Small changes wont really change the overall tank parameters.
The thing i notice from thos reaponse from Af is that they are testing salinity at 68 degrees where i bet most hobbyists are testing at 76+ as thats what we want going in our tanks. It could be a reason for the discrepency people who are testing fresh batches are seeing.
Also home test kits often suck.. For example my kits often read rather different to the same water sample sent to triton.

Out of interest for AF.. How come you are testing at a much lower temp than most people run in a tank? I have always tested salinity when my water gets up 2 the temp i want to use it at.

shred5
04/20/2017, 01:44 PM
Funny how some people read something different from what the salt says and they automatically blame the salt and not the test kits. Hobby grade test kits are not accurate. I am not saying there are not bad batches of salt out there, I have seen them but I have seen way more bad test kits. Hobby grade kits are not accurate plus if they use color, people see color different. If they use dropper method 1/2 drop different can totally change results.

I have seen Salifert test kits especially be way off from one another. I always test my newest to my last because I have had some so far off they could kill a tank. I now use more than one test kit always.

Potatohead
04/20/2017, 01:55 PM
All batches available in USA and other countries are good. The Problem was fixed immediately. You can buy salt without worries. We are in touch with distributors, stores, dealers all the time. Unfortunately - most problems with parameters that we have seen on the forums are showing problems with measuring by home tests kits. If someone has problems with our salt - tests kits are showing higher/lower results than in Quality Certificate - please contact us and send us a sample of the salt . In order for us to see what your situation maybe then we need to have salt to test it. We are talking about parameters/numbers but we didn’t get a sample of salt to test it on ICP-OES spectrometer.

About our Quality CertificatesAquaforest products are manufactured in the EU under strict laboratory supervision to meet the highest quality standards. Each product is prepared from carefully selected raw components in quantities proven to yield consistent composition.

How is our Marine Salt product range tested?
We mix our Marine Salt in 1 metric tonne (2204lb) batches, and 3 separate samples per batch are collected during the production stage for testing. Each of these samples is dissolved in 15 litres (4US gal) of RO water. Our experienced team of professionals perform ICP-OES analysis to verify that the chemical composition is within consistent range, and to rule out the presence of unwanted contaminants at the same time.
Note:
Even though our salt is thoroughly mixed, not every bucket/box will be identical. The parameters can vary slightly between containers and around a 2-3% variation is acceptable. This fluctuation is a result of both physical properties of the mix and the limitations of the processing techniques available.
These variations are still smaller than the typical margin for error for popular hobbyist test kits.

How to identify the Batch number of my Aquaforest Salt?
Labels displaying Batch numbers are present in 2 locations:
On the outside of the bucket or cardboard box
Inside the packaging (e.g. on the inside of the bucket lid or cardboard box)


Sometimes my home tests show different parameters to those stated on the label. Why?
There are no hobbyist test kits available on the market that are able to measure small discrepancies with 100% accuracy. Variations of parameters are typically still smaller than the acceptable error of the test kits available, and therefore there is little chance of a negative impact on aquarium life.

How to prepare salt for testing?
We recommend to prepare at least 15 litres (4 US gal) of saltwater.
Mix your RO water with 585g (20.63oz) of salt, and perform the test at least 2 hours after fully dissolved. Always check the salinity in which the test was made, as this will influence the measured parameters. A salinity refractometer is recommended, together with a calibration fluid.
*Note that salinity readings also depend on the temperature. Please check your salinity at 20C (68F).

If you detect a small difference in parameters between your tank and the salt, the impact is also minor.
For example if you make the typical recommended 10% water change, the change in parameters of your tank will only be 10% of the difference.

If the Calcium level in your aquarium is 430ppm and the water change water is 450ppm, the difference is 20ppm. But as you are actually only changing 10% of aquarium volume, 10% of that 20ppm is only 2ppm. Changing water this way, with that discrepancy, would only result in a difference of 2ppm of Calcium. That’s 0.5%.

E.g.
Tank Ca = 430ppm
New salt water Ca=450ppm
The difference: 450-430 =20ppm
Estimated impact: 10% *20 =2
Tank Ca after change will be 432ppm

That difference (Ca - 2ppm) should be consumed in few hours.

Regards,
Aquaforest


I'm sure we can all do math, you are missing the point. If you tell me the salt mixes from 410 - 440 I don't want to test it and find it's 480. That gives me no confidence in the product. Do you guys not keep samples of each batch? You should be, so why do you need people to send salt in? This is just odd. Your stance seems to be it's user error, but I have a hard time believing home test kits and basic refractometers are an issue when other salts check out fine and many people online report the same findings. If ten people test mag at 1500 I have a hard time believing it's actually at 1300. Why are you publishing these numbers at 33 ppt anyway, 95% of reefers with hard corals are keeping higher salinity than that.

I switched away from AF salt about six months ago, my own testing revealed parameters that I just wasn't happy with. I would rather have parameters too low and adjust them in my mixing container before doing a water change and I am sure many people would agree. With calcium and/or mag too high there is not much you can do. I did consider using sea salt instead but I can't find any information online about whether or not it contains the same type of trace elements as the reef salt necessary for hard coral health, so I just switched back to what I was using before. If I had more confidence in the parameters I would use the salt because I was happy with it in other areas.

120reefer
04/20/2017, 02:39 PM
Why do they want you to send a salt sample in??

They had an issue last year that if you read the post you can see was fixed. If people are having issues now AFTER this has been fixed then they need to know about it because it's news to them. There is nothing odd about it. If it was your product and you were told this you'd want a sample also.

I don't think it would be crazy or abnormal to have some numbers off here and there. We are talking about a handful of people out of literally thousands and thousands of buckets and boxes of salt. So requesting a sample is to much to ask?? You jest Sir!

You stated that you switched away from AF salt 6 months ago so really you should just let it go man and move on. The point of this post is to help people .

I think it's pretty obvious by now that AQUAFOREST is looking very closely at the product line and they have been tracing and tracking things back just like anyone else would do.

You should have a ton of confidence in all of Aquaforest products. With all of the focus on quality as of late and being a fairly new company to the US market don't you believe that they are hyper focused on quality right now??

I assure you Aquaforest is here to stay, they stand behind their products and all they ask is for a salt sample and people get unhinged! Really!!??!!

Please.......


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

2una
04/20/2017, 02:41 PM
Are you using AF salt? Are you having problems?? Not trying to stir the pot here but if you are an Aquaforest customer and you are having salt parameter issues then I'd suggest you send them a sample. [emoji4]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hey 120, no i've solved my issue with it by getting a store credit & moved to a differant salt now.They were sent a sample from the SA distributor.
They can keep their 1500 mag reefsalt - even more so now as they think its just fine.

120reefer
04/20/2017, 02:44 PM
Hey 120, no i've solved my issue with it by getting a store credit & moved to a differant salt now.They were sent a sample from the SA distributor.

They can keep their 1500 mag reefsalt - even more so now as they think its just fine.



You see there are several people on here chiming in that don't even use the product anymore.

I rest my case. [emoji4]

By the way this is just my personal opinion.

Good luck Happy reefing ! [emoji16]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Potatohead
04/20/2017, 02:53 PM
Why do they want you to send a salt sample in??

They had an issue last year that if you read the post you can see was fixed. If people are having issues now AFTER this has been fixed then they need to know about it because it's news to them. There is nothing odd about it. If it was your product and you were told this you'd want a sample also.

I don't think it would be crazy or abnormal to have some numbers off here and there. We are talking about a handful of people out of literally thousands and thousands of buckets and boxes of salt. So requesting a sample is to much to ask?? You jest Sir!


They should have a sample. You don't think other salt manufacturers (or anybody that makes anything) is not keeping samples from batches? Asking us to send samples to the other side of the world so that can tell us "nothing is wrong" is lame.


You stated that you switched away from AF salt 6 months ago so really you should just let it go man and move on. The point of this post is to help people .



I don't particularly care, AF relies a lot more on guys like me than our tanks do on them. There are many other products out there that do the same thing and are as advertised.

I think many in this thread will agree that AF hasn't exactly done very much to help anyone other than question consumer testing methods, but then they also say they are making improvements to their QC and in the future products will be better. So while admitting their products are not always right, they have also managed to insult the consumer.


I think it's pretty obvious by now that AQUAFOREST is looking very closely at the product line and they have been tracing and tracking things back just like anyone else would do.


Closing the barn doors after the horse is gone. You have one chance to make a first impression.


You should have a ton of confidence in all of Aquaforest products. With all of the focus on quality as of late and being a fairly new company to the US market don't you believe that they are hyper focused on quality right now??


They should have been hyper focused on it from the beginning. I also know Phosphate Minus is not nearly as good a product as Rowa, and ProBioF is useless compared to NoPox, and CoralFix is just re-badged DD epoxy, so no, I don't have confidence in their products, which is a shame because I had bought into the marketing and what not a year ago, and ultimately was disappointed.

2una
04/20/2017, 02:54 PM
You see there are several people on here chiming in that don't even use the product anymore.

I rest my case. [emoji4]

By the way this is just my personal opinion.

Good luck Happy reefing ! [emoji16]


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So what?
You'd like us to just shutup like aquaforest would?

Hey i'm out anyway - had enough of this b/s

120reefer
04/20/2017, 02:59 PM
So what?
You'd like us to just shutup like aquaforest would?



Not if we have constructive input.The point of this post is to help people not talk about past events.... hope your not "Salty" about it. [emoji16]


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120reefer
04/20/2017, 03:02 PM
They should have a sample. You don't think other salt manufacturers (or anybody that makes anything) is not keeping samples from batches? Asking us to send samples to the other side of the world so that can tell us "nothing is wrong" is lame.



I don't particularly care, AF relies a lot more on guys like me than our tanks do on them. There are many other products out there that do the same thing and are as advertised.

I think many in this thread will agree that AF hasn't exactly done very much to help anyone other than question consumer testing methods, but then they also say they are making improvements to their QC and in the future products will be better. So while admitting their products are not always right, they have also managed to insult the consumer.



Closing the barn doors after the horse is gone. You have one chance to make a first impression.



They should have been hyper focused on it from the beginning. I also know Phosphate Minus is not nearly as good a product as Rowa, and ProBioF is useless compared to NoPox, and CoralFix is just re-badged DD epoxy, so no, I don't have confidence in their products, which is a shame because I had bought into the marketing and what not a year ago, and ultimately was disappointed.



Wow tough crowd! So what your saying is there is no way for a company to recover??

Have a good day Sir! [emoji41][emoji4]


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Potatohead
04/20/2017, 03:11 PM
Wow tough crowd! So what your saying is there is no way for a company to recover??

Have a good day Sir! [emoji41][emoji4]


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Not really, I will consider using the products again, but I would have to see marked improvement for at least a year or two. They have some good points in their product line, I think the whole thing just needs to be polished, and they likely tried to expand too fast. I also find it very odd they sell their product absolutely everywhere rather than picking and choosing which retailers/distributors they wish to deal with. That is dangerous and can backfire. I guess in time we will see.

120reefer
04/20/2017, 04:10 PM
Not really, I will consider using the products again, but I would have to see marked improvement for at least a year or two. They have some good points in their product line, I think the whole thing just needs to be polished, and they likely tried to expand too fast. I also find it very odd they sell their product absolutely everywhere rather than picking and choosing which retailers/distributors they wish to deal with. That is dangerous and can backfire. I guess in time we will see.



This is understandable and reasonable.[emoji4]




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plyle02
04/20/2017, 04:31 PM
[QUOTE= I also find it very odd they sell their product absolutely everywhere rather than picking and choosing which retailers/distributors they wish to deal with. That is dangerous and can backfire. I guess in time we will see.[/QUOTE]

The product is not absolutely everywhere my friend. I know firsthand where the products are and how much are being sold ;)

shred5
04/20/2017, 06:53 PM
Why do they want you to send a salt sample in??

They had an issue last year that if you read the post you can see was fixed. If people are having issues now AFTER this has been fixed then they need to know about it because it's news to them. There is nothing odd about it. If it was your product and you were told this you'd want a sample also.

I don't think it would be crazy or abnormal to have some numbers off here and there. We are talking about a handful of people out of literally thousands and thousands of buckets and boxes of salt. So requesting a sample is to much to ask?? You jest Sir!

You stated that you switched away from AF salt 6 months ago so really you should just let it go man and move on. The point of this post is to help people .

I think it's pretty obvious by now that AQUAFOREST is looking very closely at the product line and they have been tracing and tracking things back just like anyone else would do.

You should have a ton of confidence in all of Aquaforest products. With all of the focus on quality as of late and being a fairly new company to the US market don't you believe that they are hyper focused on quality right now??

I assure you Aquaforest is here to stay, they stand behind their products and all they ask is for a salt sample and people get unhinged! Really!!??!!

Please.......


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Not to mention there are people who would lie for a free bucket of salt.
plus reading a few post here by how far off some of these people are yelling about in a few threads are easily with in a margin of error hobby kits can be off. Especially magnesium which is not easy for a kit to read.

soreninkl
04/20/2017, 09:39 PM
Funny how some people read something different from what the salt says and they automatically blame the salt and not the test kits. Hobby grade test kits are not accurate. I am not saying there are not bad batches of salt out there, I have seen them but I have seen way more bad test kits. Hobby grade kits are not accurate plus if they use color, people see color different. If they use dropper method 1/2 drop different can totally change results.

I can't less agree with you! We hobbyist just use those test which are available at the shops, made for hobbyist. We hobbyist surely have problems measuring, leave alone color blindness, counting drop by drop, not being focused, our test vial wasn't clean and there are many more reasons to come up with. I for my self, I was using Salifert and was rather puzzled about the levels of mag/cal/kh and measured again and again thus, I measured 3 times and had similar values. After all I contacted the shop and they asked me to bring over some sample water and we tested over there with Salifert/Sera for mag/cal and Salifert/API/Sera/Nyos for kh. All the results came up similar, mag/cal couldn't be determined simply because the values were above the test kits highest value and all kh test kits showed values below 6.

Somehow I draw my own foolish conclusion and tried to contact AF but their only statement was "our salt is good, send some water and we test from you". They even came up with that statement in this particular thread and insisted that only their tests are accurate and all others are......

soreninkl
04/20/2017, 09:41 PM
I don't know whether to laugh or cry....Just LOL

laugh no and cry later LOL


cheers

soreninkl
04/20/2017, 09:50 PM
Not if we have constructive input.The point of this post is to help people not talk about past events.... hope your not "Salty" about it. [emoji16]


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Now there is some sort of explanation from AF and heck yes we need to draw our conclusions and debate the results and statements from AF!!

I'm personally not salty about a batch of salt but getting salty if someone tells me not debate any issue while AF ask us to debate/ask questions at open forums rather than having one to one customer support.

shred5
04/20/2017, 09:50 PM
I can't less agree with you! We hobbyist just use those test which are available at the shops, made for hobbyist. We hobbyist surely have problems measuring, leave alone color blindness, counting drop by drop, not being focused, our test vial wasn't clean and there are many more reasons to come up with. I for my self, I was using Salifert and was rather puzzled about the levels of mag/cal/kh and measured again and again thus, I measured 3 times and had similar values. After all I contacted the shop and they asked me to bring over some sample water and we tested over there with Salifert/Sera for mag/cal and Salifert/API/Sera/Nyos for kh. All the results came up similar, mag/cal couldn't be determined simply because the values were above the test kits highest value and all kh test kits showed values below 6.

Somehow I draw my own foolish conclusion and tried to contact AF but their only statement was "our salt is good, send some water and we test from yinsisted that only their tests are accurate and all others are......

I didnt say there could not be bad batches I just see numbers that could easily be test kit problems. Not everyone uses more than one test kits.. People are just too quick sometimes to point fingers without knowing the truth or digging a little deeper. sometimes it just easier to jump on the band wagon too.. I have had bad salt by corallife and reef crystals a few times and others.. I just think sometimes people need to look at their test kits.

soreninkl
04/20/2017, 10:06 PM
Wow tough crowd! So what your saying is there is no way for a company to recover??

Have a good day Sir! [emoji41][emoji4]


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This issue may have caused a little dent in terms of reputation but from what I saw they have a broad and (good) product range. Having a look at tanks maintained entirely with AF products, specially SPS tanks, they absolutely stunning and I am sure the owner or care takers are very happy with their (good) products. :)

120reefer
04/20/2017, 10:06 PM
Now there is some sort of explanation from AF and heck yes we need to draw our conclusions and debate the results and statements from AF!!



I'm personally not salty about a batch of salt but getting salty if someone tells me not debate any issue while AF ask us to debate/ask questions at open forums rather than having one to one customer support.



Was that comment for you?? Nope didn't think so bro.

We can debate things all day as long as they are constructive. The entire point is to help people ....

Sounding "salty" to me.

Lol

So now I must ask. Are you currently using AF products and are you having a current issue?


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soreninkl
04/20/2017, 10:13 PM
I didnt say there could not be bad batches I just see numbers that could easily be test kit problems. Not everyone uses more than one test kits.. People are just too quick sometimes to point fingers without knowing the truth or digging a little deeper. sometimes it just easier to jump on the band wagon too.. I have had bad salt by corallife and reef crystals a few times and others.. I just think sometimes people need to look at their test kits.

agree again and I'm not here to do AF bashing, I just posted that they have (good) products and many using them in a successful way :)

I had a bucket of reef crystals salt and it turned rock hard after 1.5 month LOL

soreninkl
04/20/2017, 10:15 PM
Not to mention there are people who would lie for a free bucket of salt.

never thought of that LOL

are those the same people gulping half their pint and then complain it tastes flat? :p

120reefer
04/20/2017, 10:16 PM
This issue may have caused a little dent in terms of reputation but from what I saw they have a broad and (good) product range. Having a look at tanks maintained entirely with AF products, specially SPS tanks, they absolutely stunning and I am sure the owner or care takers are very happy with their (good) products. :)



Now this we can agree on. You know we don't live in a perfect world and things can and do go wrong. That being said ..... it's been fixed


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120reefer
04/20/2017, 10:18 PM
never thought of that LOL



are those the same people gulping half their pint and then complain it tastes flat? :p



You'd be surprised my friend lol


Cheers!


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soreninkl
04/20/2017, 10:38 PM
[QUOTE=120reefer;25055261]Was that comment for you?? Nope didn't think so bro.

of course it was for me as it was for the whole salty thread

We can debate things all day as long as they are constructive. The entire point is to help people ....



Sounding "salty" to me.

Lol

yes of course it is about help but you see a salt issue let people become salty
So now I must ask. Are you currently using AF products and are you having a current issue?

hmmm, I still have some "reef salt" and after that I change back to my previous salt mix. I would't say they any better or good but it gave me a little more confidence? And of course the customer support of AF did not encourage me on that matter either ;)

Now even the other brand had some issues and asked their customers to roll the bucket a few times from left to right to "mix back the elements" and Since then I roll every bucket. My thoughts on this were "heck, your handle will scratch my floor thus, I rolled it outdoors praying that the lid doesn't come off. I'm sure my neighbors thoughts are "hey look the fool is out again and rolling a bucket"


as too much salt makes us thirsty..

cheers:beer:

Potatohead
04/20/2017, 11:30 PM
"hey look the fool is out again and rolling a bucket"


lol

120reefer
04/21/2017, 05:51 AM
Lol


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soreninkl
04/21/2017, 09:41 AM
I'm personally not salty about a batch of salt but getting salty if someone tells me not debate any issue while AF ask us to debate/ask questions at open forums rather than having one to one customer support.

Just one more thing, the above statement sounds hostile but was not meant to be. I wasn't angry or agitated but just punching in what came to my mind. 120reefer, please do take my sincere apologies on that statement!?

I know you doing all this as a volunteer and the least you need is a bucket rolling fool barking at you.

cheers again and have a nice weekend

120reefer
04/21/2017, 09:55 AM
Just one more thing, the above statement sounds hostile but was not meant to be. I wasn't angry or agitated but just punching in what came to my mind. 120reefer, please do take my sincere apologies on that statement!?



I know you doing all this as a volunteer and the least you need is a bucket rolling fool barking at you.



cheers again and have a nice weekend



No offense taken my friend . Just trying to help people.

Apology accepted. [emoji4].

Cheers! You have a nice weekend also! [emoji4]


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Piper27
04/23/2017, 09:00 AM
I am so confused.. ..What exactly was fixed in the begining? From what date, or batch number is the salt supposed to be fixed?

I got a new bucket made in Nov, 2016 batch number 00596 and the bucket is changed. It's a bolder color and has a metal handle and not a plastic one like before.

120reefer
04/25/2017, 02:37 PM
I am so confused.. ..What exactly was fixed in the begining? From what date, or batch number is the salt supposed to be fixed?



I got a new bucket made in Nov, 2016 batch number 00596 and the bucket is changed. It's a bolder color and has a metal handle and not a plastic one like before.



I've never seen a bucket like that .... do you have a picture of it?? Just curious [emoji41]


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plyle02
04/25/2017, 03:16 PM
I am so confused.. ..What exactly was fixed in the begining? From what date, or batch number is the salt supposed to be fixed?

I got a new bucket made in Nov, 2016 batch number 00596 and the bucket is changed. It's a bolder color and has a metal handle and not a plastic one like before.

This is was a recent change to address a common complaint about the handles.

Bronx19
06/22/2017, 02:45 AM
Not sure if this thread has died but thought I'd report on my experience. I mix up 60L at a time, I was using Red Sea and I'm now on my second bucket of AF. Never has a bucket mixed to what is written on the bucket, I always have to add something.

I'm on bucket number 000617. Mixed to spec on Mag and Cal, 0.5 dkh low.

Aquaforest
06/28/2017, 07:29 AM
Not sure if this thread has died but thought I'd report on my experience. I mix up 60L at a time, I was using Red Sea and I'm now on my second bucket of AF. Never has a bucket mixed to what is written on the bucket, I always have to add something.

I'm on bucket number 000617. Mixed to spec on Mag and Cal, 0.5 dkh low.

Hello,
We are testing all batch of salt on ICP-OES - if you need detail of your batch I can send you results, please contact me. Home tests kit are not accurate as ICP-OES that's why you can see different results.

Regards,
Aquaforest

ZorroV
07/12/2017, 11:39 AM
I have batch 000522 of the Reef Salt. Can you send me details as to what the parameters are suppose to be. The paper with all the parameters/readings were not included.

Aquaforest
07/14/2017, 01:15 AM
I have batch 000522 of the Reef Salt. Can you send me details as to what the parameters are suppose to be. The paper with all the parameters/readings were not included.

You have no quality certificate?

Floyd79
07/14/2017, 01:07 PM
I've used 2 buckets of AF reef salt.

Pros:

I like how it mixes. Consistent numbers each week.

No clumping/hardening
No blue tinge in water

complaints:

mag is 1480 batch claims 1350

Ca is 400 batch claims

I have had issue in both tanks having a diatom algae on my glass and sand.
I have low nutrients and the only change was the salt

ZorroV
07/16/2017, 09:34 PM
You have no quality certificate?No I do not.

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prsnlty
07/17/2017, 03:24 PM
You have no quality certificate?
I no longer use this salt but I will say that when I did I used the probiotics version. I went through four boxes and two buckets and I will say that I never received a certificate in any one of them. They never mix consistently either. I had the worst algae outbreak ever and it was the only change in my SPS dominant 180g system. I purchased a bucket at rap Orlando the last time. At the time that I was using this salt there was very little information out there. So when I went and picked up the salt at rap I was then informed that you must use the AF no phosphate supplement with this product. It would have been nice if there was information like that contained with the salt when you purchase the salt....

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Aquaforest
07/18/2017, 03:23 AM
No I do not.

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Hello,
Here is scan of your quality certificate:
http://aquaforest.eu/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Certyfikat-soli-SCAN.jpg