Crinoid/Feather star help... (Not starvation)(Semi-urgent)

[SeaCucumberFan]

(PLEASE READ WHOLE POST)
Today I accidentaly ripped off a bunch of my new feather stars arms while relocating my ricordea... Now I have no idea which bunch of arms is the "real" one... How can I tell and will it regrow the arms? How long do the arms need to be detached for it to not move around? I feel really bad for it... :(

Please respond....

Please no troll posts I really need some advice and thoughts...

[johnike]

They do not live in captivity.
Period. It's dying.

not a troll post

[SeaCucumberFan]

Ok thanks for the thought... Lets just see how long it can survive...

[johnike]

Did you read ANYTHING about these before buying it?

[snorvich]

They do not live in captivity.
Period. It's dying.

not a troll post

This.

[Bent]

Why on planet earth did you buy one?

[SeaCucumberFan]

I read about it on some sites and I decided to try it out after luck with sponges....

[Bent]

Did you take any good pics of it?

[Raintree]

Buying an animal just to "see how long it survives" or "try it out" is irresponsible. Especially a Crinoid, with NO instances of them surviving in captivity long term. My guess is it will not regrow it's arms because it is probably already starving and will continue to starve.

Do you know where it's from? I see you are in Java. If it is Indonesian you might as well throw it in the ocean, it will have a much better chance of survival out there. Although, I have no idea if there is any possibility of it contracting a disease or something in captivity, and it's generally not advisable to release captive aquatic organisms.

[Raintree]

If you want to see Crinoids, go diving or snorkeling. The reefs around Indonesia are teeming with Crinoids.

[KingOfAll_Tyrants]

Without getting judgmental.......

... crinoids are supposed to be *very* difficult to keep. (I have no practical experience but I was researching this recently; this was the best site I found: https://reefs.com/2010-2/a-journey-in-crinoid-keeping/). Little is known about practical keeping of each individual species; given that you're in Indonesia there may even be little scientific literature period about the crinoid species you have.

It seems to me crinoids are for very advanced aqaurists, who've thought through the difficulties and ethics very carefully. That article goes into the basics of what worked for him - in short, a constant flow of food of the right size, and an appropriate level of flow. Unfortunately, you're starting from a position where it seems the crinoid is already dying, and its chances are not good, and would need a lot of careful preparation needed to do the constant feeding.

If I were to keep one, I would determine what size food it eats and how much flow it likes long before I ever put it in a tank. I probably would keep it in its own tank, linked into a fairly large regifium or copepod colony as well. To be honest, observing a set of them through at least several diving or snorkeling sessions (again given that the local species are probably not well studied scientifically), BEFORE planning a tank that mimics the area as much as possible (to say nothing of before collecting it oneself), I believe would be necessary to give oneself a reasonable chance of keeping crinoids successfully.

Finally, I would not release the crinoid back into the wild, for reasons I mentioned in the other thread I have active now. I'm fairly certain you don't know where it was collected, it may be diseased, and it may have been exposed to non-native bacteria,etc.

Apologies if my English is too complicated; your English seems excellent (and is much better than my Bahasa Indonesia :) ), but if you want me to explain anything above just let me know.

[billdogg]

Without getting judgmental.......

... crinoids are supposed to be *very* difficult to keep. (I have no practical experience but I was researching this recently; this was the best site I found: https://reefs.com/2010-2/a-journey-in-crinoid-keeping/). Little is known about practical keeping of each individual species; given that you're in Indonesia there may even be little scientific literature period about the crinoid species you have.

It seems to me crinoids are for very advanced aqaurists, who've thought through the difficulties and ethics very carefully. That article goes into the basics of what worked for him - in short, a constant flow of food of the right size, and an appropriate level of flow. Unfortunately, you're starting from a position where it seems the crinoid is already dying, and its chances are not good, and would need a lot of careful preparation needed to do the constant feeding.

If I were to keep one, I would determine what size food it eats and how much flow it likes long before I ever put it in a tank. I probably would keep it in its own tank, linked into a fairly large regifium or copepod colony as well. To be honest, observing a set of them through at least several diving or snorkeling sessions (again given that the local species are probably not well studied scientifically), BEFORE planning a tank that mimics the area as much as possible (to say nothing of before collecting it oneself), I believe would be necessary to give oneself a reasonable chance of keeping crinoids successfully.

Finally, I would not release the crinoid back into the wild, for reasons I mentioned in the other thread I have active now. I'm fairly certain you don't know where it was collected, it may be diseased, and it may have been exposed to non-native bacteria,etc.

Apologies if my English is too complicated; your English seems excellent (and is much better than my Bahasa Indonesia :) ), but if you want me to explain anything above just let me know.

Very good post. TYVM

Absolutely DO NOT put it in the ocean! Considering your other posts, it is a virtual certainty that you would then be introducing foreign pathogens into the water.

[Bongo Shrimp]

I read about it on some sites and I decided to try it out after luck with sponges....

Curious as to what you consider luck with sponges as some can take a super long time to starve (looks like success) and some can be kept by pretty much anyone.

Not sure if you can compare success with sponges to the ability to keep a crinoid as they are really really different in terms of care.

When people are successful with crinoids, the system is built for the crinoid, you don't just add one and expect it to somehow live.

[organism]

Considering your other posts, it is a virtual certainty that you would then be introducing foreign pathogens into the water.

This.

OP on behalf of all of the formerly living things that have passed through your tank at this point could you please just stop buying things before researching them?

[Ron Reefman]

:fun2: OP, sometimes it's not paranoia when you think others are ganging up on you. :blown:

[johnike]

Wow Ron, guns AND bombs?!!
;)
:)

[2smokes]

Curious as to what you consider luck with sponges as some can take a super long time to starve (looks like success) and some can be kept by pretty much anyone.

Not sure if you can compare success with sponges to the ability to keep a crinoid as they are really really different in terms of care.

When people are successful with crinoids, the system is built for the crinoid, you don't just add one and expect it to somehow live.

He makes sence because sponges and crinoids are filter feeders.I kept a huge blue linkia in aquarium for long time and i even discovered what food she will eat.L Laevigata is suposedly imposible to keep and her diet is unknown.Its not the aquarist fault entirely fault because these stars are sold,its the LFS fault.If i find a sensitive animal at LFS then i could action on impulse and buy it to try to rescue it from the evil LFS that sells it .At least thats how i buyed the blue linkia.

[Bongo Shrimp]

He makes sence because sponges and crinoids are filter feeders.I kept a huge blue linkia in aquarium for long time and i even discovered what food she will eat.L Laevigata is suposedly imposible to keep and her diet is unknown.Its not the aquarist fault entirely fault because these stars are sold,its the LFS fault.If i find a sensitive animal at LFS then i could action on impulse and buy it to try to rescue it from the evil LFS that sells it .At least thats how i buyed the blue linkia.

Yes the LFS shouldn't be selling them but it IS entirely the aquarists fault for not researching first. Do not confuse the two.

[snorvich]

Yes the LFS shouldn't be selling them but it IS entirely the aquarists fault for not researching first. Do not confuse the two.

Buying an undesirable from an LFS incentivizes them to restock. Buying animals that cannot be properly maintained is not an LFS issue.

[Bongo Shrimp]

Buying an undesirable from an LFS incentivizes them to restock. Buying animals that cannot be properly maintained is not an LFS issue.

Yes, you're right.

[Ron Reefman]

He makes sence because sponges and crinoids are filter feeders.I kept a huge blue linkia in aquarium for long time and i even discovered what food she will eat.L Laevigata is suposedly imposible to keep and her diet is unknown.Its not the aquarist fault entirely fault because these stars are sold,its the LFS fault.If i find a sensitive animal at LFS then i could action on impulse and buy it to try to rescue it from the evil LFS that sells it .At least thats how i buyed the blue linkia.

Yes, both are filter feeders, but most sponges feed on food that has a particle size WAY smaller than this star. There is a difference.

I won't even start on the blue linkia BS.:facepalm:

People and stores are both allowed to buy and sell these animals. Is the the seller's fault for selling them or the buyer's fault for buying it? This forum doesn't really cater to sellers of livestock. But we have lots of buyers here. Dumping the responsibility off on the seller is just foolish. As keepers of aquariums we should know what we are buying. I don't want sellers telling me what I should or shouldn't buy. Maybe it's different in Romania?

[2smokes]

When i used to buy livestock for my aquarium i always informed myself about the corals, fish or inverts before.No seller has convinced me to buy something before i got informed well about that animal.I knewed linkia isnt a good invert to spend the monney on it because its nocturnal,dies from bad aclimatisation or starve to death in aquarium but i assumed a risk mostly to save the star not for the monney i payd for it.With crinoids i dont have experience but i assume if they are well aclimated (i aclimated the linkia 5 hours slowly)and fed they can survive .I would stop the pumps in aquarium for 15 minutes and fed the feather star with coral food using a pipette ,when its most active(looks nocturnal from the pictures).Once in 3 days i would feed the crinoid but the problem with the stars it not only the feeding,bigest problem is that they die because of aclimatisation shock in the first month .After it passes a month and survives ,you could say it has chances to survive if its fed.Somme search on what the food consists of the feather star should be made.Somme might eat fitoplancton otthers animal plancton ,otthers a mix of these.Its important to have an idea about what proteins or aminoacids they need in theyr diet.