2 part confusion...

[Reefer40b]

There seems to be a lot of information on 2 Part additives with contradicting methods to actually using them...

On one hand you have someone who says ALWAYS dose 2 part in equal amounts, if you don't you'll throw off the ionic balance.

Example of a situation: Calcium is at 480ppm alk is at 8.1. for this you would want to UP your 2 part dose say from 20ml to 30ml and test a week later too see how it balanced out. It should make Ca drop some and ALK raise some.

On the other hand you have someone saying well if Alk is low just dose that and don't worry about dosing the Ca if it still tests good.

I think this thread needs to be here for people to search and see how to correctly use 2 part. Looking for real experienced people to put their thoughts on this. So which one is the correct way?

[ryeguyy84]

don't know if it's correct but this is what I do and it's working. I dose equal parts and if one starts to go down I add an adjustment dose of whatever is needed. I test on Sunday and Thursday, most days are fine but I get the occasional need to add a little Alk.

[bertoni]

I would dose both parts in equal amounts unless one level was outside my target range. Water changes can have a significant effect on the calcium level, so you might be wasting a bit of supplement, in some sense, but I don't think that's a major issue.

The problem with measuring to determine how much to dose is that the consumption rate is 2.8 dKH per 20 ppm of calcium, so daily calcium drops are hard to measure with our equipment. Measuring calcium and alkalinity now and then definitely is good practice, but I personally think it's more cost and effort than it's worth to try to test more than once a week or month or so, depending on the tank.

[Martin Kuhn]

There seems to be a lot of information on 2 Part additives with contradicting methods to actually using them...

On one hand you have someone who says ALWAYS dose 2 part in equal amounts, if you don't you'll throw off the ionic balance.

.....
On the other hand you have someone saying well if Alk is low just dose that and don't worry about dosing the Ca if it still tests good.



This is EXACTLY what i'm wondering, reading some 2 part related threads here within the last weeks.

Here u go with "what i think is correct". FYI: i'm an enthusiastic salt water aquarist from across the ocean (Europe) for more than 10 years. My background is mechanical engineering (not chemistry) ... so i might tend to make complex chemical interactions less complex than they actually are.


Here you go with "my story" how "2 part" (or "Balling method" as we call it) works.
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In general what we do when we care cor LPS/SPS is "targetting the same parameters as we have in natural sea water". Why: Corals for several thousand years adapted to these parameters. The closer we copy, the better they feel and the better they grow!

So what are these parameters:
a) A lot of (sun)light, for photosynthesis
b) Clear water with only a limited amount of nutrients (fishs leftovers) in it.
c) water flowing around, carrying "food/particles"
d) Macro and micro elements in the form of several salts within the water as they are in our oceans

There is one big difference from "ocean/reefs" to "our small tanks":
Whatever "corals are consuming" or whatever "fish or other animals are polluting the water with", this does not count at all ! There is such an infinite big amount of water "around" and a steadily water flow, that whatever is either "added" or "consumed" is immediately replaced with fresh sea water.
Especially corals are used to this "perfect conditions"

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Even if light is no problem (we know how to copy the sun in our living rooms!)
We have totally different in our tanks, because the amount of water in our tanks compared to
a) the size of corals and
b) the amount of nutrients the water is polluted with
is much much much smaller than in a reef/ocean!

VERY IMPORTANT
What ever fish or other inhabitants are polluting -> we have to get it under control and remove nutrients if we introduce too much

What ever corals are Cosuming -> we should replace it steadily so that we reach the parameters of natural sea water.

Only if we do that, we have perfect conditions and our corals will grow nicely. Especially and ONLY the consumption of macro and micro elements like Ca/Alk/Mg is the job we can do with 2part/Balling

--------------------------------------

Summarized, the job is to STEADILY ADAPT our tanks water,
DESPITE what is used up by corals etc in our tnaks
TO GET AS CLOSE TO THE FORMULATION OF NATURAL SEA WATER

--------------------------------------

And here it begins to get a bit tricky
Even if we would like to, a lot of our tanks DO NOT use the macro/micro elements always in the same ratio.
Some tanks "need more Ca", others consume more "Alk", some no Mg at all etc.
Also, and coming by different consumption of these elements, some of these levels drop a lot, while others stay quite steadily.

WHAT IF: we add Ca,Alk,MG in exactly the same ratio as they are in sea water? -> an existing disbalance will NOT be corrected.

So, the only method i can recommend is
- measure each of the parameters SEPARATELY, again and again. So you learn about the consumption of "your specific tank". Kee oin mind: The comsumption might differ a lot from tank to tank. It might also chnge in your own tank as you buy nowe corals, corals begin to grow heavily, etc

- Dose exactly and SEPARATELY for each macro element what you tank is consuming
- In Case some parameters are already to low -> Raise the separately
In Case some are to high -> wait for the to drop (in case of drasticly beeing too high, water changes for "thinning" might be better)

I recommend to NOT listen too what some guys are recommending. Not dosing exactly "balanced" regarding what you call "ion balance". For me this is nothing but confusing aquarists worldwide!

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Just imagine what is going on just reagarding a "balanced dosing of only Ca and Alk"
- expecting Ca =high and Alk = Ok, or
Ca =low and Alk = Ok, or
Alk =high and Ca = Ok, or
Alk =low and Ca = Ok
=> balanced dosing WILL NOT correct this ! ALSO this is an ionic disbalance compared to natural seawater. Your corals don't like that!

a1) expecting your tank has perfect Ca/Alk values at the moment
BUT it is using much more Alk, than Ca
If your are dosing according your Ca measurement "in a balanced recipe"
- Ca will get to perfect levels BUT
- Alk will steadily raise in much too high regions

a2) expecting your tank has perfect and Ca/Alk values
BUT it is using much more Ca, than Alk
If your are dosing according your Ca measurement "in a balanced recipe"
- Ca will get to perfect levels BUT
- Alk will get too low very soon.


My clear recommendation.
Forget what you might have heared about ion-disbalance!
Adapt your Ca/Alk/Mg levels separate from each other to perfect levels
This is much better than listening to the ionbalance gurus, but then having in-balanced Ca/Alk/Mg levels


best rgds
Martin

[tmc1313]

When I first started dosing two part, I was chasing numbers constantly and trying to adjust accordingly. IMO, keeping alk stable is probably the most important parameter to keep in check, especially for SPS dominated reefs. There was a short time when I tried a calcium reactor, but it just wasn't for me and I went back to two part using dosing pumps. The difference this time was that I only dosed in equal parts and I have never waivered. I test alkalinity once a week and if it's to low or too high (usually it's right where I want it) I adjust my dosing up or down and then adjust the calcium pump to match. Magnesium has never been a problem and I rarely have to dose it (maybe once a year). I'm assuming these levels remain steady because of the salt I use when doing my water changes. If you are doing large water changes and the salt you are using has different levels than what you keep your tank at then I'm sure that will likely throw parameters off also. From my understanding, two part was designed to be used as a simple yet effective system and to be dosed equally. Once I understood and stopped chasing numbers things just fell into place and two part dosing is one aspect of my tank I've never been happier with.

[Reefer40b]

Thanks for all the input, I have just started doing equal amounts now will be checking this Sunday when the week is up to see where my levels have landed. Before I was just dosing alk daily as that the only thing that would be dropping enough that i would have to.