Question about ich long term

[JohnnyRedd]

In a local forum on Facebook a guy posted that his tank had gone through an ich outbreak over a year ago. He had not added any fish since that time and wanted to know the chances that the ich was still active.
Made me think.
Everything we see on ich is the now, the attack no matter what the method of treatment is (quarantine, hypo, copper, fallow tank) but I have never seen anything on those that ride the storm out. I have read that many (most?) fish build up a resistance to the parasite after surviving an outbreak but how does that impact the parasite say 90 days after the last spot is seen in a fish?

This is not about quarantining fish before adding, thats responsible practices. I am now just curious as to what happens to the parasite long term.

Any experiences or ideas? I guess the easy answer would be to tell him to go buy some more fish and see what happens. :rollface:

[MrNurse]

If it's truly been a year without fish/new additions (inverts or coral who may have come from an ich infected system) then there is a 0% chance that ich still exists.

As for resistance this is true to some degree. Ich will continue to exist in these systems and any new fish introduced can continue to exhibit symptoms.

[MrNurse]

I think I misread the OP. Since it seems he still has fish in it then it's basically guaranteed that ich still exists.

[scooter31707]

IMO, ich is still present in his tank, which more than likely his fish are immune to it. When he adds a fish like mentioned above, they can become infected or if the current fish gets stressed out.

[JohnnyRedd]

Thats where I stare at my ceiling. Thinking. If the fish are immune to it then what is acting as the host for the parasite? Or are they not immune? He said a year but even at say 6 months, 9 months what is the ich using as a host if there are no signs on the fish?

I don't disagree it's still in the water, just one of those things I'm just not able to figure out.

[MrNurse]

The fish still act as the hosts. Their immunity doesn't prevent ich from surviving, it simply limits how infected/symptomatic the fish appears.

[meverha1]

My Hippo Tang started showing symptoms a week ago so at around 7 PM last Monday night I mad a mad dash to Petco to pick up Ich treatment and supplies for a QT tank. Then I spent a considerable amount of time trying to unsuccessfully net the Hippo Tang.

It's simply not going to happen without breaking down all of my reefscape and stressing everything out so I gave up.

I've been dosing garlic in the tank and I've been soaking food in garlic as well. I'll also be doing 20% water changes every week for the next couple of weeks.

So far the Tang seems fine, except for the spots of ich. He's as active as he ever was (he hid a lot and still does) and his appetite seems fine.

The issue is that from everything I've read if one fish has spots then Ich is in your aquarium and all fish need to go into QT. I guess I could do that but I can't see 7 fish of various sizes living comfortably in a 20 gallon QT for weeks on end and again.

I'll weather the storm and hopefully I won't lose any fish. If the worst happens and Ich kills everyone I'll let the tank go fallow for 90 days before restocking it. If not, then I'll treat ich as a chronic illness and do everything I can to limit additional outbreaks.

[ThRoewer]

The fish still act as the hosts. Their immunity doesn't prevent ich from surviving, it simply limits how infected/symptomatic the fish appears.
This undifferentiated statement does not align with scientific studies on this topic.
Fish that are fully immune will not host any ich. So if all fish in a system are fully immune, ich will not just die off, but will be killed off when trying to infect a (fully immune) fish.

If the fish are only partially immune, usually due to some level of stress, ich will persist on a low level. But in such a case they exhibit at least some symptoms, most commonly occasional scratching.

Of course in general it's safest to assume ich is still in a system where once an outbreak occurred.

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[Thegload]

Scientifically, fish build up a resistance to the strain of ich in the tank. As less and less icy are able to attach and reproduce, it eventually dies out unless genetic diversity is imported to the tank via new fish.

Not being able to see it is in no way indicative of not having it. Resistance is not black and white like immunity and a process of less and less parasites being able to attach is a process, one 4week lifecycle at a time. All it takes is one lucky parasite in the gills and thousands of theronts (free swimming) can be released.

However, the good news is that, unlike freshwater ich, saltwater ich has a reasonably finite lifecycle and can not "hang around" in the water column.

The problems with this science in practice is that all it takes is an immuno compromised fish, caused by stress or other infection, and the process can go back a few steps.

In a stable environment, it has been found to completely disappear over 12months.

IMHO if somebody has made it this far, I would be patting them on the back for good husbandry, but still quarantining anything they gave me :)

[ThRoewer]

The whole "strain" thing is an assumption that has to my knowledge not been properly investigated. As far as I know it stems from the Burgess study where he tested if saltwater ich immune fish are also immune to freshwater ich. Of course they are not as these parasites are entirely different species that are about as closely related as humans and elephants.

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[NYCBOB]

My Hippo Tang started showing symptoms a week ago so at around 7 PM last Monday night I mad a mad dash to Petco to pick up Ich treatment and supplies for a QT tank. Then I spent a considerable amount of time trying to unsuccessfully net the Hippo Tang.

It's simply not going to happen without breaking down all of my reefscape and stressing everything out so I gave up.

I've been dosing garlic in the tank and I've been soaking food in garlic as well. I'll also be doing 20% water changes every week for the next couple of weeks.

So far the Tang seems fine, except for the spots of ich. He's as active as he ever was (he hid a lot and still does) and his appetite seems fine.

The issue is that from everything I've read if one fish has spots then Ich is in your aquarium and all fish need to go into QT. I guess I could do that but I can't see 7 fish of various sizes living comfortably in a 20 gallon QT for weeks on end and again.

I'll weather the storm and hopefully I won't lose any fish. If the worst happens and Ich kills everyone I'll let the tank go fallow for 90 days before restocking it. If not, then I'll treat ich as a chronic illness and do everything I can to limit additional outbreaks.
your hippo tang will eventually succumb to ich. give it 3-4 weeks. i have seen it happen. the more robust fish like damsels can survive ich and build resistance, but not tangs, butterflyfish and most angelfish.

[meverha1]

your hippo tang will eventually succumb to ich. give it 3-4 weeks. i have seen it happen. the more robust fish like damsels can survive ich and build resistance, but not tangs, butterflyfish and most angelfish.

Possibly.

I've read a lot on the subject including some information stating that hypo treatment can lead to HLLE, which is worse than ich and others that say that copper is just as stressful on the fish as the treatment.

I've also read a lot of stories from people who say that their fish got it, got over it and haven't had problems since and some that say that their Tang gets a mini-outbreak occasionally.

Regardless, right now he's active, eating, and doesn't seem stressed. I'm not going to do anything to jeopardize that now.

[A sea K]

your hippo tang will eventually succumb to ich. give it 3-4 weeks. i have seen it happen. the more robust fish like damsels can survive ich and build resistance, but not tangs, butterflyfish and most angelfish.
Although this is the most likely outcome I will need to disagree with the statement as a whole as my personal experience says otherwise.

Possibly.

I've also read a lot of stories from people who say that their fish got it, got over it and haven't had problems since and some that say that their Tang gets a mini-outbreak occasionally.

My personal experience is the latter, mini outbreaks usually related to some form of stressor, typically an addition of a new fish. This would result as you put it in a mini outbreak, short lived and only enough spots to remind you that ich is still active in your system. My situation included both dwarf and large Angels, Hippo, Mimic and Kole tangs.