What is happening to my SPS colony? Can't tell if changing color or at death's door..

[2wheelsonly]

over $25,000 invested in this tank and I struggle so much keeping SPS. I spend at least 2 hours a day making sure everything is clean/params are checked.

I lost another great looking frag, started encrusting and boom dead out of nowhere. I can't figure it out; I went as far as had my params tested by an online testing facility. Everything is stable, nutrients are low. I feed coral vitalizer daily and dose phols xtra daily. My fish are fat and happy so they poop alot...

This is my largest colony, it was a nice deep green color and now it's turning a very very pale purple. I can't tell if that's truly purple or off-white due to tissue loss.

Here is a pic in it's current state:

http://i.imgur.com/joZ1f2m.jpg

Alk/Calc been steady as a rock at 7.4 - 415

Everything else looks great, and my test results on the water backed up what i've been seeing. The only thing that fluxed is po4 had gotten up to .04 but now sits at 0.01-02. Nitrates are .8-1.0.

i'm really contemplating tearing this tank down and filling in the wall, I can't keep up with replacing dead SPS that grow great for a few months and then die out of nowhere. It really F's me up mentally not knowing what the problem is.

[2smokes]

Have you dosed iron?Do you have otther similar corals that are deep green at present time and yellow corals that got discoloured ?Also,what type of light are you using?(the brand doesnt matter,is usefull to know if its leds or something else)

[2wheelsonly]

Have you dosed iron?Do you have otther similar corals that are deep green at present time and yellow corals that got discoloured ?Also,what type of light are you using?(the brand doesnt matter,is usefull to know if its leds or something else)

Never tested iron but the healthiest corals in my tanks are green stags and slimers. They have the best growth and color and hardly ever seem unhappy.

The tank is 96L 30W 24H - 300 Gallon
The lighting: 8 Hydra 52 mount 12 inches above water

Here is the current lighting schedule:

http://i.imgur.com/pWlzfZQ.jpg

Here is the layout:

http://i.imgur.com/EFXg3Lw.jpg

Here is the test results from my water sample at aquamedic:

http://i.imgur.com/iYg2QzO.jpg

The ONLY issue I see is that my salinity is high; my guess is my refracto is off? It's odd because I calibrate it against my 4 different LFS's as well as when I order corals from vivid I always test their water with my refracto to see if i'm getting the same reading as them. Always dead on at 35ppm.

[2smokes]

You can not measure iron efficiently .The ones that dose iron ,are doing by guessing if the level got low.Iron makes green color to become brighter and can turn a yellow coral into a green or greenish one if its in excess.I you allready have green corals that are doing well then its not the iron fault-you have enough iron in the water.I dont see your ph.Is possible that because of the winter and with the heating on inside the house ,your room co2 increases and is acidifying your water.Im guessing you have a low ph because the rocks are melting a litle releasing phosphates(thats why you have cyano or dinoflagelates).The salinity is high but shouldnt be a huge concern-Red Sea has a salinity of 1.028-1.029.The phosphate is a bit too low and that could also effect the coral health.And finally is possible that the led light isnt what that coral likes.For shallow water acropora i would use only T5 or MH(because these have UV while leds have zero UV) but for deeper water acropora ,leds should work fine.

[2wheelsonly]

The tank is in my basement so I use a co2 reactor attached to my skimmer. Ph 8.1 day 7.8 night. I dose prodibio which is basically carbon dosing I think that is causing the cyano.

[mikeatjac]

Not sure what iron has to do with anything. I always look for changes. When all was good what has changed since then. Lights, schedule, additives...... paling usually is a lack of nutrients. Is it mainly new frags you are losing?

Spending two hours a day is not good. I would stop dosing everything but alk and calcium and see what happens.

[Timfish]

+1 and I'm very sure iron doesn't have anything to do with it. I looks to me like your growth is outstripping the supply of nutrients.

I would want to know how many fish you have and how often you feed the fish. What other things are you feeding or adding? Corals need phosphate and nitrogen and don't care if they get it from zooplankton or from fish poop or pull organic and inorganic nitrogen and phosphate directly from the water. FYI only a fraction of reefs have PO4 levels below .05 mg/l. You can maintain very low levels of PO4 but if corals do not get it from fish poop, mixed in with organic forms of nitrogen they will bleach when their internal PO4 levels drop below .07.

[rhinonm]

Whats all the bubbles in the pic? Dinos? I know they annoy my sps, and kill them when they start growing on them.

[DSMreefer]

What is your acclimation process like? You could be stressing the corals to the point where they eventually rtn? I know changes in lighting can cause this. Leds can have very high par ratings compared to some t5, mh setups. Also something to consider is switching to zeovit. I know it's not the only way to have a successful sps tank but it's hard to argue with the results. JMO. Good luck!

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[2wheelsonly]

The bubbles are cyano; I am 100% sure on this. Deep purple fuzzy stuff that blows off easily with a baster.

my ULR hanna checker shows phosphate at 2ppm (0.01) yet I have a good bit of green algae on the overflows, back wall, rocks and my gyre. Nitrate is 1.

Here is a pic I took of the coral with bright white lights temporarily turned up, not sure if the brownish area is just flat out missing flesh and algae or the color of the flesh.

http://i.imgur.com/woqYvSy.jpg

I clipped off a frag to put lower in the tank, noticed the back side looks almost like the flesh is gone? I can't tell!

http://i.imgur.com/9OvvCSW.jpg

I discovered AEFW on a purple acro frag and IMO I think it's impossible to avoid them without having a QT tank for all corals. I dipped EVERY single coral that has gone into this tank as part of my acclimation process. From what I understand, dip does not kill AEFW eggs so it irritates me when I read people that say dipping corals prevents AEFW as it does not. That statement simple is not and never will be true. QT for 6 weeks + dip is the ONLY way.

Now, on this particular SPS I don't see ANY evidence of bite marks as I scanned the entire thing with my macro lens. It's either ****ed off or dying or both. Man, I hate this hobby sometimes :(

Why does it always seem like my corals turn to **** after 6 months of excellent growth and encrusting. It almost seems like once a coral encrusted to my rocks it is a death sentence. Sorry for the long rant, I'm ****ed off and really depressed over my tank. I hate not knowing what to do.

[2smokes]

The coral in the second picture is clearely dead.Not sure about the big bleached colony.Also if you want to get deep water acropora,never dip them as thoose will die from the dip.

[deleau]

Have you looked at this thread?

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1179702

[2wheelsonly]

Have you looked at this thread?

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1179702

I so wish it was as easy as ensuring my alk/calc/mag are in check; I test very often and never had any issues in this area. My online samples always coincide with my personal readings so I know my big three params are on point.

[bill120reef]

How is your flow, with growth it might be obstructed in areas, I am not familiar with Hydras but I run my AI sols at 40 80 80 from 10 to 10 with 45 min ramps and it seems to work good.
Do you have and how big a refugium? phosphate may not be showing up accurately when tested as a result.

[Rybren]

I can't really help with your issues, but the online testing company that you used doesn't have the greatest reputation for giving accurate results

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[DamonG]

I subbed to your thread a few days ago to watch. Have you ever thought, and this is something I discovered on my own system, that I could only run the lights for 8 hours. With that in mind, I basically ramp from blue to full blast in half an hour. Then, my to build come on and go off an hour after they come on, and an hour before the led goes off. It is something I discovered years ago.. It's something that I was playing with after my failures up front with acros. And another thing, is that I have breeders led fixtures. I started at 50,and over a year or so ,that are at 80.. I tend to run honestly like 100 blue, and only vary the white channel(I only have two controllable channels but they are multi colored, which for me is good honestly)..

And as the other person said, the second picture is more than likely dead.. Unfortunately.. But.. I have actually seen a few come back as long as they don't turn stone white.. So you might still be able to save it, and you might not.

For the flat worms, have you tried the flat worm stop product? I haven't had the issue personally, but I have, as another person mentioned used kz products. They are expensive, but work well.. Extremely well for me after messing with them.. You may want to try their flat worm product. It doesn't kill the worms, but it works by causing the coral to secrete a mucus that the worms don't like, along with it greatly enhance encrusting speed, and overall thickness of the coral.. Like a mini steroid.. You may want to try it.. I normally dose zeobak once a week, but I've been out for a while.. And it's been ok.. But it's great to get the bacteria working in the system..

And also, two things, how do you dose(and what do you dose) including frequency, and what salt do you use? And how often do you do water changes, the quantity, and where do you put the water in? Like even the tiniest of details.

And for the cyano, I know a lot of people say they don't like it, but when I had it a couple times at the start up of my system, I chemi cleaned it.. Done.. There's enough stuff to fight.. But that's me..


I'm just asking because honestly, I was in your shoes.. And it was a major pain.. But you have to figure out what works specifically for your system, and it very well may be something or a combination of things that others think are quirky or against the grain..

So don't give up.. More details please..

From note 5.. rip note 7

[deleau]

I so wish it was as easy as ensuring my alk/calc/mag are in check; I test very often and never had any issues in this area. My online samples always coincide with my personal readings so I know my big three params are on point.

Your parameters for Ca/Mg/Alk are low relative to that post I linked.

Your mileage may vary, but I have found for my tank that my SPS colored up, grow faster and have fewer instances of RTN once I maintained my parameters within the ranges on that first post of the thread.

Since you are having issues, perhaps adjusting to those levels and monitoring the results for a month or two may be worth a try...

[dartier]

I don't have a magic bullet for you (otherwise I would have already used it myself :) ), but I can make some suggestions that should help.

1. Add some T5's to your lights. The frag that you showed has the classic signs of shadowing on the backside that LEDs are well known for. Simply adding a few T5 retro kits will greatly alleviate the shadowing. As your tank is 96" long, I would suggest 2 x 48" bulbs, end to end, with 1 row on each side of your LEDs and 1 down the centre. So 6 x 48" T5 total.

2. Don't chase parameters. Just try to keep the basics inline (Alk, Ca , Mg) and allow the Nitrate and Phosphate to rise a bit. People, and I include myself in this category, get caught up with trying to lower the nutrients so much they starve their corals. I like my PO4 to be 0.08 which is double what most people shoot for. Nitrate about 5 ppm.

3. Keep up with regular water changes. The fact that your corals seem to do well for awhile and then fade away makes me think that your tank is lacking in some element. Figuring out what (if anything) is lacking can be quite difficult. a Triton test may help to point you in the right direction, or you could just increase your water change rate. I used to think salt was expensive, now I realize it is probably the cheapest solution to otherwise complicated problems.

4. Don't mess with your tank. When you mention that you spend 2 hrs a day, that makes me think of myself. I am also a fiddler, changing this, changing that. What I have found is that my tank does best when I am too busy to pay it much attention and it figures it out on its own. There is some truth to the saying that SPS stands for Stability Precedes Success.

5. Not all corals will do well in the same range. As I have tried to adjust things to the liking of a certain frag or coral that I wanted to succeed with, this often caused other long term occupants to fade. Getting a good system of husbandry in place and then seeing what corals are amenable to your tank will save a lot of aggravation.

If your corals are starving, an easy way to confirm it is to feed a supplement intended to help nutrient deficient corals. I find the Reef Energy A & B to be easy to use, inexpensive and corals tend to respond to them pretty well. If after 2 or 3 weeks your corals are visually healthier, than that would help to confirm that it is a lack of nutrients that is the root of the coral decline.

Good luck. You will find what works for you (and your corals).

Dennis

[Bpb]

With so much invested, and having so much space, I'm shocked you don't have an honest to goodness quarantine frag tank. I won't even put acropora in my tank after having it wiped out 3 times with pests. Same story as you. Everything else done correct. People can nitpick parameters and this and that but I've met plenty of people with garbage parameters that can keep sps alive. Healthy non infected stock is more important than anything else. You already mentioned flatworms and many dead colonies. Throw in the acro towel right there unless you're willing to remove every trace, quarantine and medicate, go fallow for a while then reintroduce only healthy specimens.


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[2wheelsonly]

An update, still not seeing that colony color up. Can't tell if it's dead or not; it still has a very faded pinkish color but no PE at all.

Some other frags bit the dust, I dipped and dipped but no signs of flat worms. I am three weeks into flat worm stop dosing and started feeding oyster feast via broadcast feeding once a day to see if low nutrients are my problem.

My frags usually look good but lately the ones that died got burnt at the tips and died from top down or after encrusting I see a small white spot in the middle of the crust on the rock. Once I see that it's death over the course of several weeks as it spreads and spreads.

I raised my alk to 7.9 over the course of a week and I have no problems keeping it stable. My mag/calc are still stable at the previous levels.

My water changes are small; I do 45gallons once a month since I never had an issues keeping alk/calc/mag in line and always dealt with lower nutrients.

I may try lowering my light intensity to 65?

Currently my Hydra 52's sit 13 inches off the water:

W: 30
UV: 50
V: 70
DB: 75
RB: 75
G: 20
R: 15

Changing to:

W: 30
UV: 50
V: 60
DB: 60
RB: 65
G: 20
R: 15

The tank is 96x30x24 I have 8 hydra 52's.

[2wheelsonly]

Well, two more beautifully encrusted frags are showing the dreaded white spot of death on the encrusting which means they WILL be dead within 2 weeks. I ripped one off the rocks and dipped it in bayer and coralRX; no signs of flatworms. Of course the shock killed it within 2 hours but I figured it was dead anyway.

I am at wits end, I am about to start doing some MAJOR drastic changes knowing full well I am going to wipe out $1000's of dollars of corals intentionally JUST so I can figure out this fking problem. It makes me literally insane not knowing what a problem is when it goes bad.

I thought maybe nutrients are too low but my rocks have LOTS of green algae on them that I have to blow off daily (20 min process alone). My back glass gets covered in algae in one day so it's not nutrients.

I have no way to tell if it's lights, don't know if I have too much or too little because the coral death is so random.

Looking at my tank it seems all colors are just so faded and bland. I have been feeding and feeding and feeding some more. I am over $150/month in coral food alone. Every single day some random coral starts the death process and I don't care what ANYONE says, once SPS show signs of tissue loss or loss of PE they are done.

FOWLR tank here I come. :(

Time to turn into a mad scientists and see if I can make drastic changes to my corals and document the effects.

Edit: Experiment #1:

Shutting off my lights for 48 hours to see what my SPS look like after.

[UTCReefer]

Have you stopped carbon dosing? I had some pale corals before when i was carbon dosing. I stopped, added a few fish and started adding reefroids a few times a week during feedings to boost my nutrients. It worked really well, the colors came back fairly quickly.
Any excessive sliming at the tips?