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canadianeh
11/28/2016, 12:50 PM
I have set up a IM Fusion 40 tank and I am using Fauna Marin Professional Salt right now. There is no livestock in it yet as I am planning to wait at least one month before I put LS in it.

Using Exact Idip test kit, I found that the Alk, Cal, and Mag results are not even close to the Fauna Marin specs and I mix it at 1.026 SG.
For an example, Alk I got is 5.00 ppm and the box says over 8.0
Claude from Germany said that photometer test kit such as Idip does not work well to test fresh seawater.

How about you guys? Anyone ever tested freshly made AF Reef salt before dosing with Idip test kit?

GoVols
11/28/2016, 01:20 PM
Don't know anything about "Exact Idip test kit.

Go to page 2 of this forum and read "Bad Batch" thread.

Martin Kuhn
11/28/2016, 01:24 PM
Hi
I've used several buckets of this salt and all where extremely close to FM specs.

I don't know about the test kits you described, BUT
I'd suggest to better not rely on the test kits first.
Check them with reference solutions with known parameters

Best Rgds
martin




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canadianeh
11/28/2016, 01:41 PM
Hi
I've used several buckets of this salt and all where extremely close to FM specs.

I don't know about the test kits you described, BUT
I'd suggest to better not rely on the test kits first.
Check them with reference solutions with known parameters

Best Rgds
martin




Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk

Sorry what you mean by check with known parameters?

GoVols
11/28/2016, 02:06 PM
Sorry what you mean by check with known parameters?
He means to cross check against something like "Red Sea" Foundation Pro test kits.

canadianeh
11/28/2016, 06:17 PM
He means to cross check against something like "Red Sea" Foundation Pro test kits.

Oh ok

Thanks

GoVols
11/28/2016, 07:16 PM
A cheap API test kit will do for alk.

Or... Take sample to local Fish store and check your SG and all other parameters with known liquid test kits.

canadianeh
11/29/2016, 09:03 AM
A cheap API test kit will do for alk.

Or... Take sample to local Fish store and check your SG and all other parameters with known liquid test kits.

I am in contact with Claude from Germany Fauna Marin. He is going to send me reference solution.

I have purchased Red Sea kits to test my water and I also will bring the water to LFS to test. This should give me enough results from different methods to make my decision.

GoVols
11/29/2016, 11:54 AM
Please tell us your final results for each test method.

Thanks, GoVols

GoVols
11/29/2016, 12:08 PM
FYI...

Red Sea has great (You Tube) video's on the pro test kits.

For the Alk test the video endpoint is pink. I think the new endpoint is as soon as the color turns orange.

canadianeh
11/29/2016, 12:12 PM
Thanks. I will try my best.

GoVols
12/03/2016, 05:08 PM
canadianeh,

Have you come to any final results?

Did you take sample to LFS?

Maybe you didn't mix to 1.026 SG?

canadianeh
12/04/2016, 02:54 PM
canadianeh,

Have you come to any final results?

Did you take sample to LFS?

Maybe you didn't mix to 1.026 SG?

Not yet. I am still waiting for my Red Sea kits to arrive.

I am mixing it to 1.026. I use Milwaukee digital refractometer.

GoVols
12/04/2016, 07:17 PM
Not yet. I am still waiting for my Red Sea kits to arrive.

I am mixing it to 1.026. I use Milwaukee digital refractometer.
That's a great refractometer!

canadianeh
12/09/2016, 03:18 PM
canadianeh,

Have you come to any final results?

Did you take sample to LFS?

Maybe you didn't mix to 1.026 SG?


I will post the results soon. I stayed up until 2 am last night to finished the test between Idip vs Red Sea test kit

GoVols
12/09/2016, 06:07 PM
I will post the results soon. I stayed up until 2 am last night to finished the test between Idip vs Red Sea test kit
Did you get the reference solution for the Idip?

Red Sea just posted the end point of the pro alk kit is peach/orange.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2611680

canadianeh
12/10/2016, 04:36 PM
Did you get the reference solution for the Idip?

Red Sea just posted the end point of the pro alk kit is peach/orange.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2611680

I got the reference solution from Fauna Marin. I forgot to test it using Red Sea and Idip. I will do this before I post the results.

One thing I noticed was Idip results were similar to Red Sea. I was surprised by this. It could be due to the following either or both reasons:
-I left the fresh made saltwater for more than 48 hours before testing it
-Idip just recently updated my Idip application on my Ipad which could comes with improvements

canadianeh
12/11/2016, 03:52 PM
Did you get the reference solution for the Idip?

Red Sea just posted the end point of the pro alk kit is peach/orange.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2611680


I posted a reply on the link that you posted. My card says the end colour is red/darker red

GoVols
12/11/2016, 04:07 PM
Read slowly what Kev is saying on post #2. Kev represents Red Sea.

My end point is the peach/orange color but my card has a pink color.

Once I hit my color change it stays there no matter more fluid I keep adding.

As soon as I see the peach/orange I stop.

I've cross checked this to an API alk kit because the card confused me too.

Now if you can make it hit pink/red then that's another thing.

GoVols
12/11/2016, 04:12 PM
I think RedSeaKev will respond to your post rather quickly and clear it up.

Perry, Is very good about it over here for AF.

Martin Kuhn
12/12/2016, 08:56 AM
Sorry what you mean by check with known parameters?

- Each reference solution tells you exactly which parameters it has
- You measure the reference solution an get "your test kits" values for the ref.solution
- Quite often the "waterparameters you measure" (from th eref.solution) are NOT "what the reference solutions water parameters really are"
...in this case you "calibrate" your test kits exacatly to the difference from your measurment results (which are quite often not trustable)

This exactly is the sense of using reference solutions AND this is what i meant by "check with known parameters"

canadianeh
12/12/2016, 12:08 PM
Govols, here are the results

Subject of the test is 10 gallons of freshly made seawater with 1.027 salinity using Fauna Marin Professional Salt after 24 hours period mixing.
LFS test results
PH 8.2
Alkalinity 7 dkh
Calcium 360 ppm
No Magnesium test was performed. Not sure why, and I didn't ask
Red Sea Pro test kit results
PH 8.2
Alkalinity 9.1 dkh(not sure why it is much higher. I tested twice and asked second opinion on the color results)
Calcium 445 ppm
Magnesium 1600 ppm (again this is much higher. Performed the test twice with same result)
Exact Idip 570nm test kit results
PH 8.3
Alkalinity 7.12 dkh
Calcium 420 ppm
Magnesium 1131.93 ppm (it says on the screen "1131.93 ppm (as Mg +2). I don't know what "Mg +2" means)

I also test the Fauna Marin reference solution using Idip and Red Sea Pro. Here are the results:
Idip results
Alkalinity 5.5-5.94 dkh (on the bottle of reference solution says 6.6 dkh)
Calcium 296 ppm (on the bottle says 422 mg/l)
Magnesium 1029 ppm as Mg+2 (on the bottle says 1315 mg/l)
Red Sea Pro results
Alkalinity 7 dkh (on the bottle says 6.6 dkh)
Calcium 405 ppm (on the bottle says 422 mg/l)
Magnesium 1440 ppm (the bottle says 1315 mg/l)

Fauna Marin specs:
Chemical composition/Chemische Zusammensetzung
Magnesium: 1.250 - 1.340 mg/l
Calcium: 410 - 440 mg/l
Pottassium / Kalium: 380 - 400 mg/l
Natrium: 10.300 - 10.700 mg/l
Chloride: 19.100 – 19.800 mg/l
Sulphate / Sulfat: 2650 – 2750 mg/l
Alkalinität in dKH: 8,0–8,5°
pH-Wert: 8,0–8,4
Strontium: 7,0–9,0 mg/l

The Idip is picking Calcium and Alk number much closer to the Fauna Marin Professional salt specs. I don't know if this is due to Idip application software upgrade or something else. I don't roll the salt bucket each time I make a new mix. The Alk number is still under the manufacture's specs.

Let me know if you have any question.

GoVols
12/12/2016, 07:09 PM
canadianeh, Looks like your results were for Fauna Marin Professional Salt.

Have you used Red Sea Pro kits and checked your #'s to the Aquaforst reef salt.

As for as your Idip reference solutions #'s it's beyond my knowledge.

I figure they help calibrate your Idip?

Do you still think you AF has low alk?

Read the end of this thread AF is saying that their working on each bucket of salt to hit what the batch read.

They are acknowledging that they have QC issues and trying to resolve.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2551525&page=11

GoVols
12/12/2016, 07:12 PM
Sorry... Read post #69 from Aquaforest.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2605639&page=3

canadianeh
12/13/2016, 05:54 AM
Govols, I don't have Aquaforest and I am using Fauna Marin salt right now (first ever batch). I think due to its availability, my next batch I am thinking of switching to Red Sea Coral Pro salt or Aquaforest.

GoVols
12/13/2016, 11:56 AM
Govols, I don't have Aquaforest and I am using Fauna Marin salt right now (first ever batch). I think due to its availability, my next batch I am thinking of switching to Red Sea Coral Pro salt or Aquaforest.
canadianeh, Now I understand, My bad I thought you have been using the Fauna Marin Professional Salt for awhile and were and you all ready bought AF salt and the AF salt had wacky parameters, Sorry. If your going SPS and going to use AF Bio Pro S and NP pro for carbon dosing then stay away from the (RSCP) the alk is way to high for carbon dosing in low nutrient reefs. If your have a high alk dosing can easily bleech SPS. Plus (RSCP) is known to cause cyanobacteria and It caused cyano in my reef years ago.

AF "Reef Salt" and "ProBiotic" carries the right parameters for running a low nutrient system, among others Brightwell's Neomarine, Tropic Marin Pro Reef, TM Bioactif (Similar) to AF Probiotic and others mixes can do the job.

AF has a great price point on their reef salt and I had happy corals. But I was receiving buckets that were not matching their parameter sheet in the bucket. Way off, so I was having to dose up alk and calcium separately (for no precipitation) while mixing.

IF AF fixes their bucket to bucket #'s to hit their over all batch #. Then I will switch back to AF. I have lost trust in their QC procedures for awhile but they finally commented on the issues on the other thread. No company is perfect and things happen but AF had some issues for me that just wasn't a fluke.

Regards Govols,

GoVols
12/13/2016, 12:14 PM
Go to link below and take time to watch all 5 videos. They are simple to understand, makes sense and a lot of happy reefers use it and proven out that the program works.
A lot of reefers use Red Sea Blue bucket instead of (RSCP).

We've posted a thread to AF to make a video series like Red Sea for their product line.
They said their already working on it.

I currently use Red Sea Reef Foundation ABC+ powder and Reef Energy. AWESOME products.

http://www.redseafish.com/reef-care-program/

canadianeh
12/13/2016, 12:40 PM
canadianeh, Now I understand, My bad I thought you have been using the Fauna Marin Professional Salt for awhile and were and you all ready bought AF salt and the AF salt had wacky parameters, Sorry. If your going SPS and going to use AF Bio Pro S and NP pro for carbon dosing then stay away from the (RSCP) the alk is way to high for carbon dosing in low nutrient reefs. If your have a high alk dosing can easily bleech SPS. Plus (RSCP) is known to cause cyanobacteria and It caused cyano in my reef years ago.

AF "Reef Salt" and "ProBiotic" carries the right parameters for running a low nutrient system, among others Brightwell's Neomarine, Tropic Marin Pro Reef, TM Bioactif (Similar) to AF Probiotic and others mixes can do the job.

AF has a great price point on their reef salt and I had happy corals. But I was receiving buckets that were not matching their parameter sheet in the bucket. Way off, so I was having to dose up alk and calcium separately (for no precipitation) while mixing.

IF AF fixes their bucket to bucket #'s to hit their over all batch #. Then I will switch back to AF. I have lost trust in their QC procedures for awhile but they finally commented on the issues on the other thread. No company is perfect and things happen but AF had some issues for me that just wasn't a fluke.

Regards Govols,

Red Sea Coral Pro causes cyno? Really? They have bacteria on their salt??

How about Instant Ocean Reef Crystal?

GoVols
12/13/2016, 01:39 PM
No it has no bacteria in the salt. Some reefers love it

Google Red Sea Coral Pro Cyanobacteria and read post's. I gave me cyano too.

Went back to Reef Crystals and cleared up ASAP.

After I finished AF used one bucket of Brightwell's (Very Good) Had some left over Reef Crystals. When I finish it I'm going back to Tropic Marin Pro Reef. Used it for along time.

I was trying to see if I could get AF price point at TM quality.

Also AF and Reef Crystals take more salt to mix up to 1.025 than (RSCP), TM and Brightwells. So if you buy a bucket of AF for 175 gallons you will re

GoVols
12/13/2016, 01:56 PM
you will really get a tad over 150 gallons of that bucket mixing to 1.025 SG.

Same for Reef Crystals. But I can buy a 200 gallon box of Reef Crystals for $49.00 at Dr Foster and Smith or Pet Solutions. Can't beat the price for Brightwells at BRS.

Over all I'm a big believer in TM Pro Reef. Mixes crystal clear and leaves no residue in mixing containers. My reef loves it too. At times it has a little low alk though.

There's a study done by an independent company testing AF to TM to RSCP and a bunch of other brands. IO and Reef Crystals coming in last.

In the end TM PRO Reef and RSCP came out on top from my impression. AF had low suffer content.

I've used Reef Crystals over the past 30 years and still think it's about the best bank for the price point but I just prefer TM Pro Reef.

If I can find that test I'll copy you the link.

GoVols
12/13/2016, 02:08 PM
Here you go. It's complicated at times and trans lated from Polish.
If you like the high parameters of (RSCP) and not fighting cyano it's rated on top.
I don't like an alk of (RSCP) about 12 DKH for growing corals faster but the coral colors will be less vibrant than a lower alk. I'd rather have slower growth with the better coral colors JMO.

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/376194-long-salt-comparision/

GoVols
12/13/2016, 02:31 PM
Did you get a chance to watch Red Sea's 5 part video series?

NOPOX must be able to work with a higher alk and have no ill effects on SPS corals.

I use AF Pro Bio S with their NP Pro.

canadianeh
12/13/2016, 02:41 PM
Here you go. It's complicated at times and trans lated from Polish.
If you like the high parameters of (RSCP) and not fighting cyano it's rated on top.
I don't like an alk of (RSCP) about 12 DKH for growing corals faster but the coral colors will be less vibrant than a lower alk. I'd rather have slower growth with the better coral colors JMO.

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/376194-long-salt-comparision/

Did you get a chance to watch Red Sea's 5 part video series?

NOPOX must be able to work with a higher alk and have no ill effects on SPS corals.

I use AF Pro Bio S with their NP Pro.

I saw that article before. I even posted on it. I have the same handle name on that forum.

I have not watch the videos yet. There are many videos about Red Sea. It looks like from the test RSCP salt is really good salt :)

GoVols
12/13/2016, 09:21 PM
Fyi,
Just be careful with if your going to carbon dose. It's alk is about 12dkh. They say to keep your alk between 7-8 for carbon dosing. At higher alk it burns SPS tips or worse.

I don't know if we accomplished anything between your Idip or other test kits but it's been fun. Red Sea Pro has always done me right and BRS recommends them.

The Hanna Alk pocket checker is the most accurate digital test out there.

Regards, Govols

canadianeh
12/14/2016, 05:34 AM
Fyi,
Just be careful with if your going to carbon dose. It's alk is about 12dkh. They say to keep your alk between 7-8 for carbon dosing. At higher alk it burns SPS tips or worse.

I don't know if we accomplished anything between your Idip or other test kits but it's been fun. Red Sea Pro has always done me right and BRS recommends them.

The Hanna Alk pocket checker is the most accurate digital test out there.

Regards, Govols

Idip is relatively new and they are constantly improving.

Hanna is only accurate on Alk?

The point of my experiment was to compare idip and red sea really

GoVols
12/14/2016, 07:07 PM
People swear by the Hanna digital Alk.

Their other kits has very mixed reviews and hard to use to get accurate results.

I know the Red Sea alk is accurate, checked it against other kits.

If I didn't trust the RS alk I'd by the Hanna Alk checker in a heart beat.

Here's a link. You can read the reviews.

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/alkalinity-dkh-colorimeter-hi772-hanna-checker-marine-water.html

MichaelW
12/14/2016, 08:45 PM
The only thing I liked about the Hanna alk checker was the digital read out (no color change to deal with) however, when you can test back to back with different bottles of reagents and get a 30+ ppm difference between the bottles it's hard to like it anymore.

canadianeh
12/14/2016, 11:25 PM
So is digital test kit that super accurate is a unicorn item really?

elviraveloz
12/15/2016, 10:29 AM
the only thing i liked about the hanna alk checker was the digital read out (no color change to deal with) however, when you can test back to back with different bottles of reagents and get a 30+ ppm difference between the bottles it's hard to like it anymore.

+1

canadianeh
12/15/2016, 10:44 AM
The only thing I liked about the Hanna alk checker was the digital read out (no color change to deal with) however, when you can test back to back with different bottles of reagents and get a 30+ ppm difference between the bottles it's hard to like it anymore.

so now we have two people that is saying Hanna Alk is not accurate despite tons of positive responses all over the web lol

man...I just want to have one that works and reliable and accurate....I am surprised that we are almost get to 2017 and no such thing exist for reefers. Grrr

elviraveloz
12/16/2016, 02:56 PM
Don't get me wrong I love Hanna alkalinity and nitrate checkers, but unfortunately in my experience failed too. Not too long ago we had problems when reagent started going Low at the end of reagent,Hanna blamed caps on the bottle when bottle was standing on the side. To me most critical point is alkalinity so, I always use Hanna but when reading turns one way or the other I always double check with Salifert before making a decision. Good practice is double or triple check with different brands.

MichaelW
12/16/2016, 04:25 PM
Yep I would always double check against a different kit if readings started to seem off... Then just stopped using it and just used the other kit (salifert)

GoVols
12/16/2016, 10:54 PM
Yep I would always double check against a different kit if readings started to seem off... Then just stopped using it and just used the other kit (salifert)
Good to know. I'll just stick to the RSP alk kit and refills.