Sand dwelling anemone as host for percula

[vhuang168]

I'm leaning towards a sand dwelling anemone as a host for my percula.

I was going to get a magnifica but I want an sps dominant tank and the mag will just get too big for the 190.

So to confirm, is an H. crispa a natural host for A. percula?

Are there any others I should look at?


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[D-Nak]

Yes -- H. crispa is a natural host of A. percula. It's probably your best bet because they don't get very big compared to mags and carpets.

Keep in mind that there are some magnifica that don't get very big, especially if they're not fed. I have one that's only about 6" and it hasn't grown at all. As long as you keep it isolated it won't damage your SPS.

[CoralsAddiction]

You should look for a Malu before considering a Crispa. They stay small and your clowns will likely love it as much as Crispa. I saw a few of them at Vivid Aquariums this past Saturday and the store will ship if you can't find any locally.
http://i1194.photobucket.com/albums/aa372/CoralsAddiction/random/44D0FE86-F828-4B2D-8590-5B2484133C87_zpsjvcshe4h.png (http://s1194.photobucket.com/user/CoralsAddiction/media/random/44D0FE86-F828-4B2D-8590-5B2484133C87_zpsjvcshe4h.png.html)

[OrionN]

Crispa reside on the rock, not sand. Malu stays on the sand and only get to about 8 inches or so max

[vhuang168]

As I understand it, H. malu is not a natural host for A. percula. But I will keep that in mind.

Guess I should have kept that malu I sold u Orion!

I'll head over to AC and see what they have. I know Neptune got a few mags in a few weeks ago, some were prettty small.




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[davocean]

I used to lean towards sand dwellars and agree Malu are nice for both color and size, and even though they are not natural to percs they still will most likely take to it, I know all of mine did pretty quickly.
However being mags are natural matches, and they tend to stay put if given good light and moderate flow, just give them a high up perch, that would be my first choice.

[CoralsAddiction]

Malu are nice for both color and size, and even though they are not natural to percs they still will most likely take to it, I know all of mine did pretty quickly.


+1
I'm 2 for 2 with Malu hosting true Perculas.

[zooman72]

Yeah, my large purple (approaching 8+" when stretched out) H. malu has seen pink skunks, Allard's, Ocellaris, and now Clark's clowns in it, and never really moves...

[ThRoewer]

Yes -- H. crispa is a natural host of A. percula. It's probably your best bet because they don't get very big compared to mags and carpets.

Keep in mind that there are some magnifica that don't get very big, especially if they're not fed. I have one that's only about 6" and it hasn't grown at all. As long as you keep it isolated it won't damage your SPS.
Has that ever been confirmed in the wild? I've never seen a underwater picture of percula in a crispa.

As for the size - if they are doing well in your tank crispas will easily reach a foot or more in diameter - it's a rather big anemone.

Lastly, it seems that percula lose a lot of their black when hosted by a crispa (same as with magnifica) - at least that's my experience.

I think the best bet would be a gigantea. A magnifica should be OK to if it is placed on top of an isolated rock pile.

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[CoralsAddiction]

Has that ever been confirmed in the wild? I've never seen a underwater picture of percula in a crispa.


Same here. Fautin and Allen's book lists Crispa as a natural anemone host for Percula. I haven't seen a pic or video of it in the wild though.

[D-Nak]

Has that ever been confirmed in the wild? I've never seen a underwater picture of percula in a crispa.

As for the size - if they are doing well in your tank crispas will easily reach a foot or more in diameter - it's a rather big anemone.

Lastly, it seems that percula lose a lot of their black when hosted by a crispa (same as with magnifica) - at least that's my experience.

I think the best bet would be a gigantea. A magnifica should be OK to if it is placed on top of an isolated rock pile.

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In comparison to gigantea and magnifica, crispa supposedly have a smaller maximum size. More on that later...

Same here. Fautin and Allen's book lists Crispa as a natural anemone host for Percula. I haven't seen a pic or video of it in the wild though.

I was pulling the information from their book. But, I just did more fact checking and it says that crispa "may exceed 500mm diameter." That's almost 20 inches! So, now I don't know which it is -- a maximum size of 12" or is it 20"? I've read that they max out at 12". It also states that H. crispa "live burrowed into sediment" but does say that the pedal disk can be attached to branching coral.

Looks like it's time for Fautin and Allen to update their book! They could definitely use some new photos -- all of the cover photos show bleached nems!

[CoralsAddiction]

Looks like it's time for Fautin and Allen to update their book!

Bob Fenner needs to update his site content too. Great resources though.

[zooman72]

Geez, I missed the part where the OP has a 190g aquarium!

H. magnifica would be my first choice, and could be confined to an isolated rock "tower" as previously noted. A H. malu might "get lost" in a tank that large, and H. crispa can get quite big, although is that a problem in a larger aquarium? Also, H. crispa is not always confined to the substate - mine was nestled in the rocks even with plenty of open substrate/ rock interface available, and they can often be found within rockwork in the wild.

[davocean]

I would not call a crispa small by any means, 2 foot diameter is common.
This was my last one in my 180g, solid 2 feet.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e141/mermail/fish06019.jpg (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/mermail/media/fish06019.jpg.html)

[D-Nak]

I would not call a crispa small by any means, 2 foot diameter is common.
This was my last one in my 180g, solid 2 feet.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e141/mermail/fish06019.jpg (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/mermail/media/fish06019.jpg.html)

WOW. That's a monster.

Vincent -- I didn't realize crispas get that big. Just get yourself a gigantea and be done!

[vhuang168]

Lol. Guess I'll have start hunting for a healthy one!


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[OrionN]

I would not call a crispa small by any means, 2 foot diameter is common.
This was my last one in my 180g, solid 2 feet.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e141/mermail/fish06019.jpg (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/mermail/media/fish06019.jpg.html)
Dave,
Is that a Crispa? IMO, it is a Doreensis.

[davocean]

Thats the crispa I had for 5.5 years w/ a doreensis at the other end of tank, also 5.5 years.
I have pics of the base on both as well for ID.
The doreensis typically max's out at about 18" and that's about what mine max'd at, but the crispa was indeed a monster.
That pic was under lame light, so color is eh, it got much nicer when I put better light on and took on a nice light purple.
That crispa came from petco way back when, like 3" and totally bleached when I got it, had no idea back then how big it would get, but that anemone bookended 180g was my prize tank for a good while

[Mad Marine]

I would agree with OrionN, that is a Doreensis. Tentacles are too far apart from each other and lines can be seen on the main body.

[davocean]

I would agree with OrionN, that is a Doreensis. Tentacles are too far apart from each other and lines can be seen on the main body.

Well, I've been keeping anemone's for about 31 years now so I think I have a pretty good idea what I have in my own tank by now!

Tentacles are not the best indicator, you gotta look at the base, this is crispa.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e141/mermail/Brandnew180235.jpg (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/mermail/media/Brandnew180235.jpg.html)

This is the doreensis
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e141/mermail/Brandnew180028.jpg (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/mermail/media/Brandnew180028.jpg.html)

Doreensis on left, crispa on right, this is the pair I had 5 and a half years

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e141/mermail/Brandnew180july108061.jpg (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/mermail/media/Brandnew180july108061.jpg.html)

[davocean]

Bob Fenner needs to update his site content too. Great resources though.

I don't think there is a source or list that does not require some updating, in fact I wish they would update the list stickied above here in the areas we all know need corrections, but it does seem the Fauntin and Allen book is the most accurate at this time.
I finally broke down and bought the book since they blocked my saved links

[OrionN]

Dave,
You are right on with your ID. Sometime a single picture can be misleading.

[davocean]

Dave,
You are right on with your ID. Sometime a single picture can be misleading.

Agree, and I'll also add that that particular crispa made a number of changes visually over the years I kept it, depending on lighting and flow given, health.
That was my first real long term success w/ that species way back when, and that gave me a lengthy observation of it's changes along that period.
Many pics I have do not even look like the same anemone
Same crispa under better lighting.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e141/mermail/canonshots180055.jpg (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/mermail/media/canonshots180055.jpg.html)

[ThRoewer]

The issue with published information in such a narrow field like this (host and anemonefish pairings) is, that even if incorrect, errors easily make it into other publications and get spread into mainstream publications.
Additionally complicating the issue is the fact that anemonefish have just host preferences, but no strict rejection criteria for non-preferential hosts. I've seen all kinds of anemonefish accepting anemones in captivity that were not their preferred hosts in the wild.
The whole point of the preferences is to make sure that juveniles rather settle in an anemone that is occupied by its own species instead of going into an anemone where they are likely to encounter a hostile species and perish.
It is also noteworthy that recent research has shown that the host anemone preference might be to some degree imprinted on the larva while still inside the egg.
All that explains why anemonefish might be quite willing to accept other than their natural hosts in captivity.

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[ThRoewer]

As for the size of crispas - if they are happy they will get large rather quickly.
Magnificas and giganteas are far easier to be contained in size via the amount you feed them.

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[zooman72]

I've seen all kinds of anemonefish accepting anemones in captivity that were not their preferred hosts in the wild.

It happens quite a bit in the wild, as I have seen a few videos of clownfish (or anemonefish as some prefer) "being hosted by" (or simply living amongst) long tentacle plate corals and Euphyllia corals for example...

[OrionN]

Well, I got wild caught A. percula (the same one) that used Malu, Haddoni, Gigantea, Maagnifica as hosts depends on where I put him. I think the relationship of this type isn't very rigid. This make sense because a clown fish without anemone in the wild does not last too long. Choosy clownfish will likely be at a huge disadvantage and not survived. However, not choosy enough, the clown fish may get eaten by the possible host also.
I am not at all certain that clowns get imprinted while in egg or early after hatch. They are much more adaptable than that as evidence by my wild caught Percula.

[davocean]

I think they just have a very strong instinct to find or accept a host and will take on whatever seems to suit them if they are not provided a natural host, though a natural host is accepted much faster.
I have had some clowns that flat out refused a hadonni after many months.
I also have had clowns lose their black color upon receiving a non natural host and have seen other nem/clown keepers have the same experience, picasso/ percula to BTA to be specific, and upon removal of BTA's that black color came back.