I need help from the pros!

[mariahcolleen]

I have a 2 year old 60 gal FOWLR with nitrates off the charts. I would like to eventually get my water in good shape to add some of the easier to keep soft corals and in general make it a happier place for my current pets. I also have a cyano problem.

Water parameters: Salinity: 1.025, Temp:78, pH:8.2, ammonia:0, nitrite:0 nitrate:>160 (per API test, inaccurate I know)

Current inhabitants: 2 occellaris clowns, firefish, blue/green chromis, royal gramma, 3 peppermint shrimp, cleaner shrimp, halloween hermit, 3 blue legged hermits, 3 red legged hermits, feather dusters, turbo snail and a snail of undetermined species. No one is new.

What I know I am doing wrong: I have been a bad girl and have not really kept up with water changes like I should. (Don't hate me too much nursing school is killer) I have been doing about 10% per month with bigger water changes at the ends of semesters for the last year. My filtration sucks, until recently I have been relying only upon my power heads and live rock. I have been feeding too much like 3 times a day. I wasn't vacuuming the sandbed. I thought it was bad for some reason. Its a 1 inch sandbed. Ive been using tap water which tested at 30 nitrates btw...

What I have changed: Regular water changes like 10% twice a week. I have heard I must do a big water change to have an affect on nitrates but then I hear that it will "shock" my tank so I don't know who to believe. I am vacuuming the sand bed each time. I bought an RODI unit and a protein skimmer (breaking in now). I cut back feeding to once every other day. I have a salifert nitrate test on the way.

What else should I be doing? A sump is not an option at present until I make a new stand. What other methods of filtration would you recommend? I have heard canister filters can be a nitrate factory. All of my inhabitants seem just as happy and healthy as always but I still want to get these nitrates under control for them. Please don't hate on me too much. It has been a really hard year. Thank you all for your help and sorry for the loooong post.

[GoVols]

Girl, you have along list! (lol)

I'll start and others can jump in. API is not accurate enough for phosphate and nitrate.
Yes, your need to test for phosphates and could be apart of your cyano issue. Cyano can be due to one or multiple issues. You need to research cyano and eliminate one thing at a time and stay patient.

I use Rowaphos GFO to control phosphates but there is other ways.

You have to test and be able to adjust: Calcium/Alkalinity and Magnesium (The Big 3)

Always heard halloween hermit's eat coral but I've never had one.

The EASIEST lighting for a beginner going into corals is T5.

Since you don't have a sump you need to find a great "Hang on Back" protein skimmer.

Aquamaxx makes the best HOB skimmer I've ever owned.

Well, Thats a start and hope it helps!

[GoVols]

Also, If your not Randy Holmes-Farley your not a pro

[mariahcolleen]

Thank you for all the info. I really just made this post to focus on the nitrate issue not so much how to get ready for coral in general. I will probably not even add any coral for a year until I graduate nursing school. I have LED lights and have bought a hob protein skimmer that is breaking in now. I have a salifert nitrate test on the way since I know the API is kind of crappy. I need to buy a phos test but that will have to wait until payday. The actual reef testing kit (alk, mag , calc) I will buy when I am closer to actually getting into coral. (I should have made it more clear that wasn't going to be happening for a while.) I had tossed around getting a GFO reactor and still may. I'm gonna have all sorts of things hanging off of this tank! lol

[CindyK]

I will probably not even add any coral for a year until I graduate nursing school.

Smart move, you have a busy year ahead of you...no sense piling more on yourself. Making your tank beautiful with corals can be your "happy graduation to me hooray I did it" present to yourself after you pass the NCLEX :)

[mariahcolleen]

Smart move, you have a busy year ahead of you...no sense piling more on yourself. Making your tank beautiful with corals can be your "happy graduation to me hooray I did it" present to yourself after you pass the NCLEX :)

Yes! If the past year has been any indicator, I have a crazy year ahead of me. I have big plans for a 300+ gallon tank in the basement after graduation. As well as some pretty softies for my 60 gallon. Happy graduation to me indeed! :beer: My husband is gonna think I'm nuts. :lolspin:

[GoVols]

Yes! If the past year has been any indicator, I have a crazy year ahead of me. I have big plans for a 300+ gallon tank in the basement after graduation. As well as some pretty softies for my 60 gallon. Happy graduation to me indeed! :beer: My husband is gonna think I'm nuts. :lolspin:
LOL
From a man who's been married for 30 years a dated her for 4 years. Always keep him guessing. Nuts is a good thing!

You deserve a 300 gal after graduation or you could tell him your buying yourself $30,000 dollar Harley for your new hobby!

[mariahcolleen]

LOL
From a man who's been married for 30 years a dated her for 4 years. Always keep him guessing. Nuts is a good thing!

You deserve a 300 gal after graduation or you could tell him your buying yourself $30,000 dollar Harley for your new hobby!

Haha! Best advice I've heard all year! :celeb1:

[GoVols]

Haha! Best advice I've heard all year! :celeb1:

[GoVols]

Welp, I'm not a pro reefer but I'm a pro husband.

On that note my wife says it's bedtime.

So have a good night and it's been fun!

[Cancun]

Thank you for all the info. I really just made this post to focus on the nitrate issue not so much how to get ready for coral in general. I will probably not even add any coral for a year until I graduate nursing school. I have LED lights and have bought a hob protein skimmer that is breaking in now. I have a salifert nitrate test on the way since I know the API is kind of crappy. I need to buy a phos test but that will have to wait until payday. The actual reef testing kit (alk, mag , calc) I will buy when I am closer to actually getting into coral. (I should have made it more clear that wasn't going to be happening for a while.) I had tossed around getting a GFO reactor and still may. I'm gonna have all sorts of things hanging off of this tank! lol

Hi there! Yea you heard correct...the best way to cut nitrates is to do a 50% water change...wait a week...and do another 50%. Make sure your new water is at the correct salinity...and the PH is in the normal range...and the temp matches your tank... For example if your nitrates are at 160ppm...you do a 50% water change it drops your nitrates to 80ppm on the spot...then do another 50% in a week...and so on...keep in mind the nitrates will rise slightly in between water changes...After the 2nd 50% wc I would then do 10% a week. Once your nitrates are under control there is no harm in feeding once a day. Just remember a fishes stomach is about as big as their eye....also a 50% water change at one time doesn't shock your system AS LONG AS YOU MAKE SURE THE SALINITY, PH, AND TEMP OF YOUR NEW WATER MATCHES YOUR TANK WATER..that is the important part. I have had to do exactly this in the past...and I had no problems with live stock after the wc...hope this helps! Keep us posted on how everything turns out! Good luck!

[PatW]

The API tests can be fine. Depends on what you are doing. I like the ALK and Ca test. Quick and dirty and close enough. I use Red Sea Pro for nitrates. I run my nitrates at less than 1 ppm and that test will measure down to .25 ppm.

Water changes are a brute force approach to nutrient export. The advantage to them is that if you have high phosphates and I bet you do, the big water changes will reduce both the nitrates and phosphates.

You can reduce nitrates and phosphates by running macro algae in a refugium. A refugium is just a tank or area of a sump that has water flowing through it from your tank. You put in some algae like chaeto, buy a cheap light fixture and put in an LED bulb. As the algae grows it will suck up nutrients, nitrates and phosphates. You just take some of the growing algae mass and toss it which exports nutrients.

You can also remove nutrients by carbon dosing. You add a carbon source, vodka, vinegar or other, to the water. The carbon serves as an energy source for bacteria which multiply in the water column. As they multiply, the bacteria will suck up nutrients to make their tissues. Your skimmer will remove the bacteria which exports the nutrients. You need a skimmer that is more than adequate for your tank to do this. Also, this is a bit involved and I would read up on it before trying. I can reduce nitrates pretty rapidly doing this but I never had the levels you have. I would stick with water changes.

[mariahcolleen]

Thank you for clearing that up. I have the rodi started for the big ol water change now. Do you think i should replace the sand bed or just siphon the crap out of it?

[mariahcolleen]

The API tests can be fine. Depends on what you are doing. I like the ALK and Ca test. Quick and dirty and close enough. I use Red Sea Pro for nitrates. I run my nitrates at less than 1 ppm and that test will measure down to .25 ppm.

Water changes are a brute force approach to nutrient export. The advantage to them is that if you have high phosphates and I bet you do, the big water changes will reduce both the nitrates and phosphates.

You can reduce nitrates and phosphates by running macro algae in a refugium. A refugium is just a tank or area of a sump that has water flowing through it from your tank. You put in some algae like chaeto, buy a cheap light fixture and put in an LED bulb. As the algae grows it will suck up nutrients, nitrates and phosphates. You just take some of the growing algae mass and toss it which exports nutrients.

You can also remove nutrients by carbon dosing. You add a carbon source, vodka, vinegar or other, to the water. The carbon serves as an energy source for bacteria which multiply in the water column. As they multiply, the bacteria will suck up nutrients to make their tissues. Your skimmer will remove the bacteria which exports the nutrients. You need a skimmer that is more than adequate for your tank to do this. Also, this is a bit involved and I would read up on it before trying. I can reduce nitrates pretty rapidly doing this but I never had the levels you have. I would stick with water changes.
Unfortunatly a sump is not an option right now. Can i just plop macro in the display pr will it take over everything? I could get a hang in tank breeder box or something to contain it maybe. What do yoi think?

[Sk8r]

It will take over everything. And clog your pump and flood your living room.

To deal with outrageous nitrate, there's a stuff called NoPoX. It is a pre-made and proper carbon dose, and it does work: I used it after the standard methods (water change, more rock, etc) had failed, but the catch is---if you are carbon dosing you need a GOOD skimmer, and they're not cheap. If you are looking toward a larger tank someday, it's not crazy to buy one for that someday tank, but again, you CAN overdo. If you don't have a sump, running a decent skimmer is a problem: you can create a sump simply by installing a hang-on downflow box into a large bucket with return pump.
It is also possible your sandbed is a mess. If this is the case, getting some undersand cleaner critters may help. THere is a far more dangerous course to take, safe if you don't have any black moldlike stuff in your sandbed bottom: you can stir up very small areas of the sandbed and use a filter sock on your downflow to immediately catch the debris and get it out. THere is a risk if you don't get it clean quickly, but it's ok if you catch almost all of the brown dust on the initial downflow, and watch your water quality very closely...have a bottle of Prime standing by in case it goes amiss. It's a last-ditch if none of the other methods are working.

If you absolutely can't swing it, then qt ALL your living critters, break down the tank, swish off the rock in discard water, wash the sand thoroughly, treat with Prime, and then remake the tank all within hours with all new water, leaving all critters in qt until the tank has gone through a very likely minicycle---usually about 5 days to a week before it's safe to put a snail or two in, and gradually add everybody back. It's drastic and messy, but if nothing else works, that can reset the chemistry entirely.

[mariahcolleen]

It will take over everything. And clog your pump and flood your living room.

To deal with outrageous nitrate, there's a stuff called NoPoX. It is a pre-made and proper carbon dose, and it does work: I used it after the standard methods (water change, more rock, etc) had failed, but the catch is---if you are carbon dosing you need a GOOD skimmer, and they're not cheap. If you are looking toward a larger tank someday, it's not crazy to buy one for that someday tank, but again, you CAN overdo. If you don't have a sump, running a decent skimmer is a problem: you can create a sump simply by installing a hang-on downflow box into a large bucket with return pump.
It is also possible your sandbed is a mess. If this is the case, getting some undersand cleaner critters may help. THere is a far more dangerous course to take, safe if you don't have any black moldlike stuff in your sandbed bottom: you can stir up very small areas of the sandbed and use a filter sock on your downflow to immediately catch the debris and get it out. THere is a risk if you don't get it clean quickly, but it's ok if you catch almost all of the brown dust on the initial downflow, and watch your water quality very closely...have a bottle of Prime standing by in case it goes amiss. It's a last-ditch if none of the other methods are working.

If you absolutely can't swing it, then qt ALL your living critters, break down the tank, swish off the rock in discard water, wash the sand thoroughly, treat with Prime, and then remake the tank all within hours with all new water, leaving all critters in qt until the tank has gone through a very likely minicycle---usually about 5 days to a week before it's safe to put a snail or two in, and gradually add everybody back. It's drastic and messy, but if nothing else works, that can reset the chemistry entirely.
Thank you for the advice. I was kinda hoping to get a post from you. I think i am headed in a good directon now. I have done 2 50% water changes a several days apart and am sitting at 40 nitrates vs the 160 it was before. My skimmer is cheap but seems to be working well. I dont know if i would trust it for carbon dosing though. If the nitrates shoot up again despite better tank husbandry and filtration i think i will follow your reset advice. Everything is already looking a lot better!

[OldReefGuy]

imo,

keep doing 10% wc a week. Its a pain, but your nitrates will get back in check. and cut down on feeding. Fish in nature dont eat everyday....just a thought

[tkeracer619]

You are going about it the right way. Keep it up.