symbiotic relationships

[CafeReef]

Question for the more advanced crew. This fall I had to run fallow after a case of velvet. While I was fallow, I lost a monti as well as almost lost one of my sps corals (I believe it's a purple bonsai). Anyways, I still did water changes as normal. fed my CuC as normal etc. Once I added fish again (clown pair) all of my corals perked up. Almost immediately my zoa growth took off, my SPS bonsai has come back with a vengeance and colors are great on everything.

My only thought is there symbiotic relationship between fish in a reef tank even if it isn't a anemone/clown style symbiotic relationship. Thoughts? am I crazy?

[mcgyvr]

Its urine..
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/fish-pee-is-vital-to-reef-health

Thats why I started "yellow dosing" my tank.. Corals are going crazy.. :)

[Timfish]

This really should not come as a surprise. Quoting two of the formost researchers on corals reefs:

"Our crystal clear aquaria do not come close to the nutrient loads that swirl around natural reefs. And so when we create low-nutrient water conditions, we still have to deal with the rest of a much more complex puzzle. Much like those who run their aquarium water temperature close to the thermal maximums of corals walk a narrow tight rope, I can't help but think that low-nutrient aquariums may be headed down a similar path." Charles Delbeck, Coral Nov/Dec 2010, pg 127

Veron wrote over 25 years ago: "Imported nutrients are usually transported to reefs from rivers; but if there are no rivers, as with reefs remote from land masses, nutrients can only come from surface ocean circulation. Often this supply is poor, and thus the vast ocean expanses have been refered to as "nutrient deserts". The Indo-Pacific has many huge atolls in these supposed deserts which testify to the resilience of reefs, but the corals themselves may lack the lush appearance of those of more fertile waters. Many reefs have another major supply of inorganic nutrients as, under certain conditions, surface currents moving against a reef face may cause deep ocean water to be drawn to the surface. This "upwelled" water is often rich in phosphorus [2.0 mg/l] and other essential chemicals." J. E. N. Veron "Corals of Austrailia and the Indo-Pacific" pg 30

Get Forest Rohwer's Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas. It's a very readable introduction to more recent research on corals and lists an extensive bibliography if you choose to dig deeper into the research.

As also pointed out in the link Mcgyver posted corals utilize every source of phosphate and nitrogen possible. The coral holobiont is an assemblage of microbes associated with corals that are symbiotic with corals and help corals utilize and recycle nitrogen both the organic forms and inorganic forms. Phosphate, either organic or inorganic, is essential and is the limiting nutrient corals need to use nitrogen. An example of the impact corals have on the phosphate levels of the ocean it drops from as high as .7 mg/l away from reefs to an average of .13 mg/l on reefs with a few reefs dropping below .05 mg/l

[Raintree]

It would not be considered symbiosis because they are not living in close proximity (i.e. touching)

It's certainly true that organisms in our tanks benefit, are harmed by, or otherwise interact with other organisms, but that does not necessarily make it a symbiotic relationship. By the way, "symbiotic" is not a term frequently used in ecology (if i'm remembering correctly from my intro ecology courses in college). Ecologists prefer more specific terms like commensalism, mutualism, parasitism, competition, etc.

I believe this would be considered "cooperation", where the coral and the fish are mutually contributing a resource or service. The fish is providing a resource (i.e. nitrogen and other nutrients) in the form of waste products, and the coral is providing a service (i.e. uptake of those waste products, thereby detoxifying the shared environment).

[pisanoal]

Its urine..
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/fish-pee-is-vital-to-reef-health

Thats why I started "yellow dosing" my tank.. Corals are going crazy.. :)


Do you have a thread detailing your "yellow dosing"?

[CafeReef]

Its urine..
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/fish-pee-is-vital-to-reef-health

Thats why I started "yellow dosing" my tank.. Corals are going crazy.. :)

very interesting article, thanks!

[mcgyvr]

Do you have a thread detailing your "yellow dosing"?

No but I have a picture of me standing over the tank peeing into it.. :celeb1:
Would what work.. :)

Thats also how I start a cycle on new tanks..

[pisanoal]

Haha. I'll pass, thanks though?

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

[ca1ore]

Fully agree that an excreting fish population is an important component of a healthy reef tank. Been long of the opinion that past decade success with corals is due to better lighting, circulation and all/ca maintenance, not nutrient management.