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Ricardo18
12/19/2016, 01:59 PM
A question on Nitrate:

If the system is running 10 ppm...approximately what should be coming out of the skimmer discharge??

YA...good question!

Psirex
12/19/2016, 02:01 PM
That really depend on the undissovled organics in the water column.....

posted using alternating currents.....

worm5406
12/19/2016, 02:28 PM
The skimmer really works based on the undissolved organics attaching to the bubbles and rising up to the collection cup. With this done it pops and goes over the edge into the cop it's self.

The skimmer pulls uneaten food and other items which go from ammonia to nitrite to nitrate. So a high PPM might signify there is a lot in the column already that needs to be pulled.

Ricardo18
12/19/2016, 03:02 PM
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-10/rhf/index.php

worm5406
12/19/2016, 08:45 PM
Sorry I guess I dont understand the question.

With that much nitrate there must be some UDOC in the tank. It should be skimming pretty good.

Ricardo18
12/20/2016, 05:26 AM
Sorry I guess I dont understand the question.

With that much nitrate there must be some UDOC in the tank. It should be skimming pretty good.

That is what I assumed also!....but on further pursuit, I'm now of the opinion that the skimmer will not necessarily "Pull like crazy" with high nitrates in the system.And the skimmer effluent will in fact read the same nitrate level as the system.

dave.m
12/20/2016, 07:00 AM
Skimmers can never pull more than ~30% of the protein at the best of times. I would suggest going on a detritus hunt. Vacuum any substrate. Vacuum out the sump entirely. Replace filter socks often - at least twice er week. Put your hand in the tank and flap it at the rocks to stir up detritus that has settled on/in them. Make sure your powerheads in the tank are pointed upward to move floating detritus towards the overflow. Stir up and vacuum out any refugiums. Make sure all your reactors are flowing and not accumulating crud.

Also, make sure your test kits are fresh and not out of date.

And lastly, don't chase numbers. If your tank is doing well and your numbers are constant be thankful for hitting a balance. However, if your numbers are moving upwards, definitely start cleaning up as per above.

Dave.M

Ricardo18
12/20/2016, 09:39 AM
Skimmers can never pull more than ~30% of the protein at the best of times. I would suggest going on a detritus hunt. Vacuum any substrate. Vacuum out the sump entirely. Replace filter socks often - at least twice er week. Put your hand in the tank and flap it at the rocks to stir up detritus that has settled on/in them. Make sure your powerheads in the tank are pointed upward to move floating detritus towards the overflow. Stir up and vacuum out any refugiums. Make sure all your reactors are flowing and not accumulating crud.

Also, make sure your test kits are fresh and not out of date.

And lastly, don't chase numbers. If your tank is doing well and your numbers are constant be thankful for hitting a balance. However, if your numbers are moving upwards, definitely start cleaning up as per above.

Dave.M

Thank You Dave

bigzman
12/21/2016, 01:43 AM
Skimmers can never pull more than ~30% of the protein at the best of times. I would suggest going on a detritus hunt. Vacuum any substrate. Vacuum out the sump entirely. Replace filter socks often - at least twice er week. Put your hand in the tank and flap it at the rocks to stir up detritus that has settled on/in them. Make sure your powerheads in the tank are pointed upward to move floating detritus towards the overflow. Stir up and vacuum out any refugiums. Make sure all your reactors are flowing and not accumulating crud.

Also, make sure your test kits are fresh and not out of date.

And lastly, don't chase numbers. If your tank is doing well and your numbers are constant be thankful for hitting a balance. However, if your numbers are moving upwards, definitely start cleaning up as per above.

Dave.M


Second daves suggestion. I would look into siporax as well which will aid in reduction of nitrate. I used seachem matrix and bare carbon dose which has kept my skimmer production low. Before matrix I dosed 8ml vodka and 0 nitrate but skimmer needed to be emptied every other day. Now I empty every 5-6 days (even when try to skim wet). Have a better skimmer on the way also.

McPuff
12/21/2016, 07:19 AM
You can also try the marine pure blocks... can't remember if you're already using them but I find them to be really effective at reducing nitrates.

Besides that I agree that you should simply search for detritus and siphon it out. Overflows are a great place for this stuff to accumulate.

bigzman
12/21/2016, 08:16 AM
Please becareful with marine pure blocks:

Many threads about its effectiveness and leaching aluminum:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2453931

Matrix is purified pumice stones and Siporax (sintered glass) has been around since I got into this hobby 15 years ago.

Now that I have a sump large enough to accommodate it I have started using both.

Ricardo18
12/22/2016, 10:30 AM
Please becareful with marine pure blocks:

Many threads about its effectiveness and leaching aluminum:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2453931

Matrix is purified pumice stones and Siporax (sintered glass) has been around since I got into this hobby 15 years ago.

Now that I have a sump large enough to accommodate it I have started using both.

I have Marine Pure blocks now.I had them in a high flow area of my sump but have moved them to a low flow area last week.I am waiting on my Triton results to see if there is Aluminum in the water.

Ricardo18
12/22/2016, 10:32 AM
Instead of Marine Pure..does anyone have any knowledge of Brightwell Aquatics XPORT BIO BRICK?

bigzman
12/22/2016, 01:33 PM
Ricardo,

Those blocks are great at nitrite and some help on nitrate. There are threads that cover that part.

This thread is long but very informative:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2526998

The trick is being able to control it at any time with out addition and keeping it easy to shack of minor detritus build up. Amazing designs one can find for keeping it in place and removable for servicing.

Matrix and Siporax is very effective at nitrate reduction and has been around for a very long time. Marine block and Brightwell bricks are a great concept but the amount of flow and efficiency achieved by Matrix / siporax is far more advanced. I personally like that Matrix is natural and Siporax is just glass.

Another property that is mentioned on the above thread is that it also shelters pods and other good organism as they hide in cracks and crevices. In a brick only bacteria makes it around.

I personally am using booth and plan to expand on it. I have 330 gallons and some very large tangs and anthais that love to eat often. I have 4 liters of pond matrix on the bottom of my filter socks (Not in the socks) to avoid Detritus build up (Its also a space that is a waste and now serving a good roll. I have a liter of the large pond siporax in between baffles.

I plan to add more pond matrix in smaller bags in between baffles in sump. By placing in smaller bags in between baffles so I can remove and shake a bag at a time to release any build up that can reduce its effectiveness. I will upload a picture tonight.

My objective is to have enough available media to tackle any possible bioload spikes. Also hope to stop any of the carbon dosing I have going. I have been a carbon doser (Vodka) since 2008 love it but also love the simplicity behind this media.

As of Yesterday its had been 2 months since I started using Matrix and 3 weeks since siporax. My nitrates are near zero. I plan to stop the 3 ml of Vodka and monitor system for a week to see if there is any build up.


Instead of Marine Pure. does anyone have any knowledge of Brightwell Aquatics XPORT BIO BRICK?

Hope it helps you. Nice build!

Ricardo18
12/22/2016, 04:02 PM
Yes this does help Bigzman. I think the idea of placing the media in the first chamber,under the socks..is Great!
...BUT...Bacteria media is "supposed" to be in a low flow area of the sump.
so maybe this is not the best location?

bigzman
12/22/2016, 06:19 PM
Yes I have thought of that as well. Not very scientific but here is why I think it is working. On the recommendation of lower flows rates thru a reactor is that a reactor is pushing the volume thru a small area packed with media.

For me the bottom of my sock area has very little turbulent waters, also not all water flowing thru sump is being forced thru media. In my case I have covered an area of 22x20 with 4liters of pond matrix submerged in 10 inches of water. Not all water flows thru bottom.

As for the baffles assuming I have hit the magical 3400 gph flow rate thru DT to sump (I think I am higher) by placing media at bottom with spaces for water to pass at a higher rates. I will space each liter of pond matrix in media bags 8x4 inches apart enough to allow higher flow rates thru baffles. Again not forcing the water thru the media. Also I have siporax on last baffles and don't have a ton (I am trying to find more) but it's standing up in a basket that does not have high flow.

In short I have real estate all over that I can spread media and not force it thru. I will get those pictures up loaded to give you examples. I decided today to turn off dosed. Nitrate is not detectable. I was at 50ppm 3 weeks ago. I have not done any major wc.

bigzman
12/22/2016, 08:18 PM
Sock area with out socks:
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w24/bigzman_photos/New%20Reef%20Build/20161222_215745_zps1qtchxbc.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/bigzman_photos/media/New%20Reef%20Build/20161222_215745_zps1qtchxbc.jpg.html)

Side veiw with socks on:

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w24/bigzman_photos/New%20Reef%20Build/20161222_220313_zpsicnwgnaf.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/bigzman_photos/media/New%20Reef%20Build/20161222_220313_zpsicnwgnaf.jpg.html)


Regular matrix in 8x4 media bags. This pic is before I added siporax. I have 6 bags total spread spacing is 4 inches.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w24/bigzman_photos/New%20Reef%20Build/20161222_220342_zpsu2klde4g.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/bigzman_photos/media/New%20Reef%20Build/20161222_220342_zpsu2klde4g.jpg.html)

bigzman
12/22/2016, 08:21 PM
I hope to double the pond matrix to 8 liters if I don't have any luck finding siporax. Hope this helps.

matrix vs pond matrix:
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w24/bigzman_photos/20161222_222353_zpsgdxchjcq.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/bigzman_photos/media/20161222_222353_zpsgdxchjcq.jpg.html)

Ricardo18
12/23/2016, 05:49 AM
Bigzman,

Very interesting!....I will try this.
Just got my Triton results back (second test)
All results are in the green except LI. They suggest I check:
-dosing additives for contamination (too vague!)
-contaminated salt (too vague!..ya, I 'll go to the Red Sea to verify what they are doing over there))
-ceramics (I guess as in; ceramic rocks.I have Real Reef Rock...maybe, who knows?)

BTW....ALUMINUM DOWN TO NORMAL LEVELS ...but I have been doing a lot of water changes due to my elevated Nitrates..so the next test will be more accurate for AL.

bigzman
12/23/2016, 06:36 AM
Bigzman,

Very interesting!....I will try this.
Just got my Triton results back (second test)
All results are in the green except LI. They suggest I check:
-dosing additives for contamination (too vague!)
-contaminated salt (too vague!..ya, I 'll go to the Red Sea to verify what they are doing over there))
-ceramics (I guess as in; ceramic rocks.I have Real Reef Rock...maybe, who knows?)

BTW....ALUMINUM DOWN TO NORMAL LEVELS ...but I have been doing a lot of water changes due to my elevated Nitrates..so the next test will be more accurate for AL.

bigzman
12/23/2016, 07:09 AM
Ricardo, You are on the right track on Li. Rock could be culprit as the composition is not well known or the bounding agents or coloring agents. If you want to remove LI or it gets to high use a polyfilter before sending out sample to triton. As for Nitrate water changes are great but its not solving root cause. After some thought on my last post I think I am going to opt out of adding additional siporax and get more matrix. I am seeing results with 4l matrix and one liter of Siporax. I stopped vodka dosing yesterday. I will keep you posted and monitor PO4 and Nitrate. I assume my PO4 not increasing is because of the carbon dose. I have been researching if the bio media can aid in any way in keeping PO4 levels at bay not finding anything. Please keep us posted

Bigzman,

Very interesting!....I will try this.
Just got my Triton results back (second test)
All results are in the green except LI. They suggest I check:
-dosing additives for contamination (too vague!)
-contaminated salt (too vague!..ya, I 'll go to the Red Sea to verify what they are doing over there))
-ceramics (I guess as in; ceramic rocks.I have Real Reef Rock...maybe, who knows?)

BTW....ALUMINUM DOWN TO NORMAL LEVELS ...but I have been doing a lot of water changes due to my elevated Nitrates..so the next test will be more accurate for AL.

NeverlosT
12/23/2016, 12:47 PM
I run a marinepure block and have elevated aluminum levels (98 microgram/liter, Triton considers that greenish/yellow), but that being said, I have not read anywhere definitively that the aluminum will be harmful.

My lithium levels are off the charts, but I have read that has been coming up a lot in folks tanks and it is likely due to the salt used.

My nitrates are high though, often 20-40 on the API kit and ~25-30 on the Red Sea Kit. I do feed heavily, but thats too high.

I have been dosing NO3PO4x and skimming wet to bring nitrates down, but I think some matrix may help as well (I already use some, but would add more). I definitely suffer from detritus collecting in areas such as my overflow, so I can work on that too.

bigzman
12/23/2016, 07:58 PM
Just made a few more media baskets. Order 4 more liters. This one is 8" high 6"wide and 3" deep.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w24/bigzman_photos/20161223_213303_zpsn9xoaa6l.jpg (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/bigzman_photos/media/20161223_213303_zpsn9xoaa6l.jpg.html)

bigzman
01/04/2017, 11:59 PM
Ricardo18, did you try adding pond matrix or siporax to your system? I stopped dosing carbon and nitrates are hold study. Added 4 more liters since post.

Ricardo18
01/05/2017, 12:39 PM
Hi Bigz,

I only added more of my MicroPure blocks and moved them to a low flow area in my sump.My Nitrates are now 5.I think I am good to go.I'll cut my feeding a bit and watch where things go.

bigzman
01/05/2017, 03:43 PM
good to hear. keep us posted

cwschoon
02/14/2017, 06:52 AM
Following. Any opinions/experience with Brightwell Xport NO3 dimpled brick?

Ricardo18
02/14/2017, 04:51 PM
Following. Any opinions/experience with Brightwell Xport NO3 dimpled brick?

I have not "pulled the trigger" on these bricks yet...I'm still using my MarinePur bricks.
I will wait for my latest TRITON results to see if there is anything going on.If there is, and it possibly tracks back to the MarinePur blocks..Out they go!

cwschoon
02/14/2017, 04:58 PM
On another thread, it seems that some Chinese bricks got into the marketplace. The consensus is that the MP product is fine, tho the Brightwell seems to be better.

cwschoon
04/11/2017, 04:25 PM
I have seen no positive effects from the Xport NO3 brick yet but I did not seed mine.

Ricardo18
04/12/2017, 12:57 PM
I pulled all my Marine Pure blocks out a month ago.Interesting fact: I let them sit out in the air to dry. One would expect some sort of a "die-off" smell, if they were housing bacteria...NOTHING!
I am now running bio-pellets in a reactor. It will be a month or so to see if they have an effect.