Recommendation for LEDs that shimmer

[Sullivmw]

I was looking for recommendations for LED light fixtures that match the shimmer effect of MH's. Been using my MH's on my tanks for many years, and love the shimmer, but my electric meter is getting a bit worn out and my chiller is going to need replacing.

I tried T5s, VHOs and such in the past. Certainly are great products, but I kept coming back to the halides due to that natural effect I couldn't seem to get on the florescents.

I looked at the few brands my LFS stock on their tanks, didn't really see any that caught my eye, but the inventory was limited compared to the huge selection I see online.

[vhuang168]

Kessils are the king of shimmer!


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[Assasi]

I use Kessil's on my 300 gal reef and love them! nice shimmer without disco effect.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/42395328/300%20Fish%20R.jpg

[VGT]

Kessils have great shimmer. My Hydra26 shimmers well, too.

[Uplift]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxZsHInV8Rw

[ktownhero]

Kessil lights were the first time I looked at an aquarium and it felt like what you see when diving. Their shimmer is really unmatched. Sometimes it can be too much but there are ways to soften it like the diffusion kits for the AP700.

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[meegwell]

Just curious..what aspect of the light source makes the shimmer?

[ComforablyNumb]

Just curious..what aspect of the light source makes the shimmer?

Single point light emission. The Kessils have their leds in a tight group (half an inch or so)

[ktownhero]

Just curious..what aspect of the light source makes the shimmer?
Same reason you can see your shadow in the sun but not inside a typical office: light is coming from one angle more than the others.

From a shimmer perspective, Kessils are like being in the sun while T5s are like being in an office building with fluorescent lights every 2'.

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[Sullivmw]

Thanks for the input - really appreciate it!!!

I will need to check out the Kessils - hopefully I can find someone in my area that has them up and running.

Any suggestion on the Kessils (size, amount) for a 24" x 24" cube that is mostly soft / lps / and a few sps?

[drummerboyevil]

Thanks for the input - really appreciate it!!!

I will need to check out the Kessils - hopefully I can find someone in my area that has them up and running.

Any suggestion on the Kessils (size, amount) for a 24" x 24" cube that is mostly soft / lps / and a few sps?

Two a160's. If you plan on going a little more SPS eventually bit the bullet and get a ap700 in my opinion.

[ca1ore]

Kessils are the only LED option I've seen that match MH shimmer. They also suffer from similar shading problems. For a 24x24 cube a single 360 would suffice, as would a pair of 160s. Depending on the hood/canopy, going with AP700 would generate quite a lot of light spill. Bothers me .... maybe not others.

[Sullivmw]

It's an open top - rimless tank - so light spill can be a bit annoying to me.

I will look at all three of the Kessil options listed below and use this as my test tank. I do like the idea of 2 lights so I can move them around a bit. I want to make sure I get this right before replacing 8 MHs on my other tank.

[krazycanuck2011]

Before anyone says anything about what I'm about to say - I own 4 Kessil A360WE's, and love them I plan on adding to them with an AP700 for a new tank later this year.

That being said, if you get a COB (Chip On Board) LED light, there are some cost effective alternatives than Kessil's which perform. The evil Jebao company also have a Kessil clone. GalaxyHydro (look on youtube) have a COB led light similar to a chinese blackbox LED which works nicely and has wifi control as well...

There are alternatives, but Kessil's are that cat's meow. I wish they would make a diffuser for the 360's I am planning on making and selling a diffuser kit for the 360WE's myself within the next month or so.

[pfan151]

Any leds will shimmer. It's more a result of how much agitation you have on the water surface.

[Sullivmw]

I'm not sure I have seen all LEDs have the shimmer that MHs have. Totally understand surface agitation, but the ones I have seen at my LFS certainly do not have the MH shimmer. Maybe the more focused lights help?

[pfan151]

It's not exactly the same effect as a MH. I prefer leds to not shimmer as much because the LED shimmer looks a little unnatural to me.

[ComforablyNumb]

I prefer leds to not shimmer as much because the LED shimmer looks a little unnatural to me.

Go snorkling on any reef in the world on a sunny day...strong shimmer is evident and quite natural.
No shimmer = unnatural to me.

[ca1ore]

Go snorkling on any reef in the world on a sunny day...strong shimmer is evident and quite natural.
No shimmer = unnatural to me.

Yep!

[pfan151]

Go snorkling on any reef in the world on a sunny day...strong shimmer is evident and quite natural.
No shimmer = unnatural to me.

Shimmer from a MH for sure. The shimmer from LEDs doesn't look as natural to me. Especially when it's a very strong shimmer.

[ktownhero]

Shimmer from a MH for sure. The shimmer from LEDs doesn't look as natural to me. Especially when it's a very strong shimmer.
That's way too blanket of a statement. LED in and of itself has nothing to do with shimmer. There's a big difference between a Radion or Kessil as far as shimmer. And there are ways to calm it down like with diffusion lenses on things like the AP700. It also entirely depends on surface movement. I mean look at the CoralCare, it basically looks like T5s.

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[ComforablyNumb]

Shimmer from a MH for sure. The shimmer from LEDs doesn't look as natural to me. Especially when it's a very strong shimmer.

Well that would be a personal preference. I have been diving for 30 years and I can say without equivocation that strong light shimmer in shallow water reefs is what corals are actually getting in nature much of the day.

LED shimmer varies highly...if the leds are spread out in a larger fixture like a black box, far less shimmer. Single point leds like Kessil, great shimmer.

[FirstContact]

The older Orphek DIF models were single source point with lots of shimmer, but they had no spectral or intensity fine tuning. The shimmer from single source points IS incredible.

[d2mini]

Kessils are insane, much heavier shimmer than MH. It's like being at a rave.

I just replaced a MH with a Mitras LX7 and it has very similar shimmer to the MH. Maybe a tad less than the MH. It's there but it's not overpowering.

[ktownhero]

Kessils are insane, much heavier shimmer than MH. It's like being at a rave.

I just replaced a MH with a Mitras LX7 and it has very similar shimmer to the MH. Maybe a tad less than the MH. It's there but it's not overpowering.

The AP700 diffusion kits do a really good job of taming the shimmer down. It's not that the Kessil lights have unnatural shimmer, it's just that in our tiny tanks the surface movement is too much since it's bouncing around between 4 walls. The AP700 diffusion kits literally "slow down" the shimmer so less of the surface turbulence translates through to the bottom of the tank.

[d2mini]

It's not that the Kessil lights have unnatural shimmer, it's just that in our tiny tanks the surface movement is too much since it's bouncing around between 4 walls.

And did we not have these tiny tanks when running MH? ;)

[ktownhero]

And did we not have these tiny tanks when running MH? ;)
Who was talking about MH? MH looks great.

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[yifan917]

Kessils are insane, much heavier shimmer than MH. It's like being at a rave.

I just replaced a MH with a Mitras LX7 and it has very similar shimmer to the MH. Maybe a tad less than the MH. It's there but it's not overpowering.

How's the shimmer on the Mitras LX7 compares to the new Radion G4s? I remember you also had them installed if I am not mistaken? Thanks.

[d2mini]

Who was talking about MH? MH looks great.

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Several of us including the OP.
What I'm saying is, comparing the Kessil to MH (original style, i havent seen the 700 in person) is that the Kessil puts out a seizure inducing amount of shimmer with heavy surface movement compared to MH.

Some other LEDs, like the Mitras, puts out a much more subtle and IMO, more natural looking shimmer.

Of course like anything else, this is just my opinion based on years of running all types of lighting and various fixtures. YMMV.

How's the shimmer on the Mitras LX7 compares to the new Radion G4s? I remember you also had them installed if I am not mistaken? Thanks.
I wish I had them side by side or could swap them out on the same tank.
The Radions do have some shimmer but its a bit hard for me to compare to the two.

[yifan917]

I wish I had them side by side or could swap them out on the same tank.
The Radions do have some shimmer but its a bit hard for me to compare to the two.

Hmmm let's say.... You like the shimmer on the G4 better or the mitras? :)

[ktownhero]

Several of us including the OP.
What I'm saying is, comparing the Kessil to MH (original style, i havent seen the 700 in person) is that the Kessil puts out a seizure inducing amount of shimmer with heavy surface movement compared to MH.

Some other LEDs, like the Mitras, puts out a much more subtle and IMO, more natural looking shimmer.

Of course like anything else, this is just my opinion based on years of running all types of lighting and various fixtures. YMMV.


I gotcha, I think I can better explain what I was saying.

So shimmer is talked about like it's one thing, but it's not entirely. You have things like shimmer lines at the bottom of the tank which is what is being talked about here. With shimmer lines, yes the Kessils can totally be overwhelming at times -- but that can be mitigated with the diffusers, at least for the AP700. MH doesn't really have this problem since the reflectors create a huge area of light.

So, why is it that I tend to refer to a Kessil light as having more natural shimmer than even MH when it requires diffusion to be calmed down? Well, that comes down to another aspect of shimmer that is often overlooked: rays of light. The one thing that you get with Kessil more so than any other light I've personally seen (and I'm not claiming to have seen anywhere near close to them all) is the appearance of the rays of light breaking through the surface and shining down to the bottom of the tank. I believe generally they are referred to as "god rays". This is something that absolutely appears on real reefs that you don't get with most other lighting sources.

So while the Kessils absolutely do benefit from either diffusion or reducing surface agitation, that is somewhat offset by the fact that they offer this additional aspect of "shimmer" that even MH doesn't really provide. When I look into my tank I don't just notice the shimmer because of the ripples appearing on the surfaces inside the tank, but because of the dancing rays of light that you get as well. I found that once I added the diffusion lenses I got the benefit of reduced shimmer lines on the bottom while still keeping the appearance of sun rays coming through the water. I actually think the most natural look you can probably get is by using a small amount of T5s just to get cover along with an AP700 (without diffusers). That way the Ap700 drives the majority of the light and provides the shimmer and god rays, but the T5s help balance out some of the extreme dancing you get at the bottom of the tank. I haven't tried it yet though.

Anyway, that's where I was coming from. I now realize I've spent way too much time and energy thinking about this lol.

EDIT: I also want to add that I think people under estimate how extreme shimmer can be on a real reef. I don't know if you are a diver or not, but I've absolutely been in shallow reefs that have shimmer right up there with a Kessil light. It's just that, again, in a small box it tends feel amplified because you focus on it. Out in a real reef, you don't tend to focus on it as much because you're not staring at like 8sq feet of reef at a time lol.

[d2mini]

@ktownhero, Yep, all good points. :)

[nycman]

Kessils are insane, much heavier shimmer than MH. It's like being at a rave.

I just replaced a MH with a Mitras LX7 and it has very similar shimmer to the MH. Maybe a tad less than the MH. It's there but it's not overpowering.

Thanks for this. This post contributed to my decision to go with the GHL fixtures over all of the others. I got 3 for my new 180G.