Time for a term to die---'cooking' rock...should go away...

[Sk8r]

Before it kills somebody.

The term was humorous, to describe tubbing rock for an extended period with warmth (not heat) and circulation in the dark.

Unfortunately in the internet world, information passes imperfectly, and some people don't read past the title: it sticks in their minds, they think it's how it's done, and pretty soon we have some guy heating wet rock in the oven (steam explosions, chemical outgassing---think of a mini volcanic event) or boiling it (bad chemicals, possible explosions, and fumes. And it kills the rock.)

I think before somebody ends up a Darwin Award winner---we should, as a hobby, stop this term in its tracks. Please notify a mod if you see the term in use, and gently and politely inform the poster that a better term is 'tubbing rock', or whatever you choose, because somebody may, unfortunately, apply it literally.

[sde1500]

Excellent post! Never understood the cook part. Just as easy to curing. I think I did read a thread somewhere of a person boiling their rock. Scary dangerous stuff.

[MMacro]

Great PSA. I feel like this should be a sticky...

[Sk8r]

a hat tip to davocean, who suggested this post.

[Mrs. Music]

a hat tip to davocean, who suggested this post.

that is cause he is a smart guy. lemme see if I can remember what we used to call it...it is on the tip of my tongue.

[Sk8r]

'curing rock,' likely. Perfectly nice term.

[hogfanreefer]

Agreed, I do agree that curing is the best term.

[ericarenee]

I agree its a very bad term ..

Also i disagree with Curing being the correct term . the term curing in my mind applies to allowing newly acquired live rock time to balance organic matter. die off and restore so to speak..

The term cooking in my mind applies to a destructive process to remove all organics from the rock. Intentionally destroying all organic and inorganic nutrients

maybe to refresh , renew , but then that still to me sounds like the curing process

The Correct term to me should include the words or words that would would ultimately mean removing Nutrients /organics at a complete level...

Nutrient Reduction technique ... or De-neutralizing..

They all sound not perfectly explaining thou... maybe it will trigger someones mind for the best term

Yes I am Rambling sorry

[Mrs. Music]

I agree its a very bad term ..

Also i disagree with Curing being the correct term . the term curing in my mind applies to allowing newly acquired live rock time to balance organic matter. die off and restore so to speak..

The term cooking in my mind applies to a destructive process to remove all organics from the rock. Intentionally destroying all organic and inorganic nutrients

maybe to refresh , renew , but then that still to me sounds like the curing process

The Correct term to me should include the words or words that would would ultimately mean removing Nutrients /organics at a complete level...

Nutrient Reduction technique ... or De-neutralizing..

They all sound not perfectly explaining thou... maybe it will trigger someones mind for the best term

Yes I am Rambling sorry

But I like what you said, and where you were going with that train of thought.

stripping the rock?

nutrient reduction technique = NRT

nuking the rock! That's what I remember we used to say years ago. However in recent years people have started using the term "cooking". Nuking it sounds about right to me.

[Fish finder]

I'm getting ready to do rock for my first tank, should I just use RODI water until my tests are negative or should I unwashed it with peroxide first?

[Fish finder]

Edit: wash* it with peroxide first?

[davocean]

So this is the deal, I woke this am and pulled up on FB to see a pic of a guy w/ all his live rock in pots on the stove w/ steam coming off, and he was commenting on the nasty smell.

My first thought was oh boy, not again, this guys is going to make himself sick or worse, and then I looked at his profile pic which were his two young children, and I thought man, this guy could affect his whole family not knowing the term of of this playful nickname for cleansing that rock.

We already saw the media explode this in a negative way last time a reefer simply posted a warning of paly toxin poisoning, and that got really ugly on another popular site to the point that guy actually was receiving death threats just for posting a warning.

So if you are an empathetic person it's probably easy to recognize what a simple correction in terminology can do for us here, and if you are not, then lets point out the groups that would love to put restrictions on our hobby and what we can keep or import, either way it's a negative that could easily be avoided.

"Curing' already has it's place as a term being used to make our rock tank ready, this is not what the other term refers to, the other term refers to removing unwanted pests and algae by the means of soaking that rock in low or zero light for usually about 2 months time, so it would be nice to call this out as something that defines that process on it's own.
It's just a responsible terminology correction that avoids headaches for all in this hobby.

And BTW, this is actually not a new or my idea, I'm just one w/ a good memory and recalled sk8r suggesting this a short time ago, and after this I decided to write her and say I think this is something we should be more vocal about after recent issues.

[Sk8r]

Well, if 'curing' means something else, call it 'tubbing' the rock, which is fairly descriptive of the process.

[tonysi]

We should just go back to the word "nuking". That's basically what is being done when "cooking" rock.

[davocean]

We should just go back to the word "nuking". That's basically what is being done when "cooking" rock.

Well, nuking is a term we use to describe what a dead anemone or other toxic animals can do to your tank

Tubbing sounds ok, just does not describe the period of darkness, though neither did the other term.

[davocean]

So this is the image I saw this am on a FB reef club page that drew my attention, this reefer obviously misinterpreted the term, and posted this pic commenting on the terrible smell that came w/ that cleansing process.
Of course this poor guy was bashed immediately by about a gazillion people and has since removed himself from that page or maybe FB all together, but I just think it would be a good idea to avoid the possibility of this misinterpretation all together.


So I can not say loud and clearly enough:

THIS SHOULD NEVER BE DONE, THIS CAN CAUSE YOU OR ANYONE AROUND YOU SERIOUS HARM OR ILLNESS, DO NOT DO THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e141/mermail/sub/stove%20top%20rock_zpsdmn1ua1c.jpg (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/mermail/media/sub/stove%20top%20rock_zpsdmn1ua1c.jpg.html)

DO NOT DO THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jda]

Cooking is not the same thing as curing. Curing is what you do with wild rock that will have die-off from the transport or that is not suitable for aquarium life. Cooking is when you take nasty already-in-captivity rock and get the gunk and phosphate out of it.

A term is just a term. Who cares. All that is needed is for BRS to make a video about it and then everybody will know what it is. The posts that describe how to do it already exist and have for years - is everybody going to go back and edit them so that they are searchable? Maybe people need to take some responsibility for their own stupidity.

Any good leader know that the more that you try and fool-proof something, only a bigger fool you create. Besides, this guy was boiling, not using an oven to cook... so is this creating a solution for a problem that does not exist?

If we are going to ban misleading terms, then there are a whole bunch that could do more damage that need consideration.

[ericarenee]

Nutrient Nuking ???

[jda]

Don't forget about "acid bath" for dry rock - what if somebody got in the bathtub full of Muratic acid? "Vinegar bath" to clean equipment could be just a bad. People could fill their tank full of tennis or golf balls using the "balling method." Put sticks of grey putty in their tank by using the "two-part" method for alk and calcium replacement. I know that people have messed their tanks up with vodka, so I will skip this one, but nobody is crying about this.

[farfromsea]

I like the idea of referring to it as washing (and/or soaking). Curing makes me think of using heat (like a kiln perhaps)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[davocean]

A term is just a term. Who cares. All that is needed is for BRS to make a video about it and then everybody will know what it is. The posts that describe how to do it already exist and have for years - is everybody going to go back and edit them so that they are searchable? Maybe people need to take some responsibility for their own stupidity.

Any good leader know that the more that you try and fool-proof something, only a bigger fool you create. Besides, this guy was boiling, not using an oven to cook... so is this creating a solution for a problem that does not exist?

If we are going to ban misleading terms, then there are a whole bunch that could do more damage that need consideration.

I do like the idea and point that someone like BRS has enough of a following and accurate info that could help properly inform people.

As far fool proofing this or really just about any other hobby is difficult or impossible to do, but it doesn't mean we should do nothing or at least try to help or clarify, promoting safe reefkeeping is what many of us do here for both ourselves and our animals.
For most of my time in this hobby we just dove in, nobody ever used gloves or any other protection, and paly toxin went w/out being known or discussed for most of my time in this hobby as well, now we are more cautious, people are aware cutting frags w/ a dremel or frag saw can be an issue, many now take precautions, sticking heads in sand does nothing for us.

[jr999]

How about re-conditioning the rock, prior to cycling.

[jccaclimber]

While I agree that some research would save people, so would common sense, and that isn't likely to come about any time soon. As such we should come up with a better term. I think the only way to kill the old term is to replace it.

I like "acid bathing" or "stripping" as replacements. I am against "curing" as that term is already in use.

[Fish finder]

What is the best method for "cooking" or "acid bathing" old dry rock?

[jccaclimber]

We may be talking about two different things. In the case of this method I think "dark curing" would be a good term. It is basically standard curing, but in the absence of light:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3478937&postcount=11

In the case of this method, I think "acid bathing" would be a better term. In this case you are removing the loose organics, then stripping the surface of the rock.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=17732266&postcount=1

[fftfk]

Is teabagging already used? This seems somewhat silly. Plenty of hobbies/businesses use terms in ways that the normal public doesn't use. Cooking means something in reefing. All a person has to do is google cooking reef rock, search a forum, or ask on a forum to know how to do it.

[ericarenee]

Is teabagging already used? This seems somewhat silly. Plenty of hobbies/businesses use terms in ways that the normal public doesn't use. Cooking means something in reefing. All a person has to do is google cooking reef rock, search a forum, or ask on a forum to know how to do it.

i still think the terminology or work has to reflect the actual reason for the action..

it needs to mean or stand for reducing or killing organic matter. The process at witch one does this can very depending on time,space they have and type of rock..


I do not think there is a Proper Word or catch phrase for this..

anyway im rambling again

[moondoggy4]

Thank you for this thread now we have something to link to when ever we hear that term again.

[jccaclimber]

What about "cleansing"?

[jda]

I just checked facebook and somebody who saw this post just got into the bathtub with acid in it to scrub their rock while getting clean at the same time. Their rubby ducky was HDPE and appears OK.

Now I guess that we need to call it "acid bathing, but just the rock, not for the humans, and wear goggles and gloves, and by no means take a video and post it online." Can we have an acronym for this?

Seriously, nobody uses acid to cook live rock. That is what they do with dead and dry rock.

[Sk8r]

If you say teabagging, some reader will be soaking their rock with Lipton. If you say cleansing, alas! the mind boggles. I taught school for ten years: the ways people can misconstrue a term are legion.

I'm going to see if we can come up with a sticky on rock preparation and put it here and in the NTTH forum: it's certainly a source of major tank ills when done incorrectly.

WELL, I've put one up. If you see corrections, let me know.

[slief]

So this is the image I saw this am on a FB reef club page that drew my attention, this reefer obviously misinterpreted the term, and posted this pic commenting on the terrible smell that came w/ that cleansing process.
Of course this poor guy was bashed immediately by about a gazillion people and has since removed himself from that page or maybe FB all together, but I just think it would be a good idea to avoid the possibility of this misinterpretation all together.


So I can not say loud and clearly enough:

THIS SHOULD NEVER BE DONE, THIS CAN CAUSE YOU OR ANYONE AROUND YOU SERIOUS HARM OR ILLNESS, DO NOT DO THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e141/mermail/sub/stove%20top%20rock_zpsdmn1ua1c.jpg (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/mermail/media/sub/stove%20top%20rock_zpsdmn1ua1c.jpg.html)

DO NOT DO THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yep!! When I saw the title of this thread, I had my suspicions that the timing had to do with the post in the Facebook group. Pretty scary IMO. People take things very literally without doing research.

The term "cooking rock" was a very misleading and poorly chosen name.

[Dxpert]

Great tip! I agree

[davocean]

Yep!! When I saw the title of this thread, I had my suspicions that the timing had to do with the post in the Facebook group. Pretty scary IMO. People take things very literally without doing research.

The term "cooking rock" was a very misleading and poorly chosen name.

I'm glad to see some other long timers saw that and agree.

I think most that have been around may recognize I'm not exactly MR. PC or trying to safety everything, and yeah I joke around as much as anyone on here, but I just think it's a silly term that just does not even describe the process and just invites unnecessary headaches, and who wants to add more leverage for potential restrictions in our hobby.
I just won't use that term anymore myself.

[ktownhero]

Did something happen recently that sparked this?

I'm much more concerned about people making the literal suggestion of using giant baths of acid to cure rock. The term "cooked" is commonly used as a euphemism for all sorts of processes that don't involved actually cooking something literally. Of course curing is the correct term and I don't see any reason to say "cooked" over it, since they are such close words. But I can't imagine it's a major problem, either.

[Sk8r]

People of all sorts of languages, backgrounds, ages, and what-not try reefing. If you say nuke the rock---some poor confused person may try to put it in his microwave and blow it up. No, there's no 'safe' word except maybe 'process' the rock---which would lead somebody to ask "what's the process?" which IS the correct question.

I've put 'the process' into a sticky up top, which I hope will spread the knowedge of the how-to and what the tradeoffs are in various approaches.

[Mrs. Music]

That is so true about the microwave! LOL! A sticking about the various ways to properly cure and process rock is the best solution.

[mcgyvr]

So lets see if the admins turned on the filter yet...

cook rock
cooking rock

edit.. Nope...
Guess its really not that big of a deal then to the site owner.. 2 seconds editing the filter and the words would be unusable here..
I so wanted to see clay-boa rock show up..

[bdsage]

recycling the rock would be the proper term

[saf1]

When exactly did we stop teaching "common sense" in school?

Smart aleck aside, it was due a sticky.

[tkeracer619]

What about "purging rock"?

The original term that shall not be spoken is specific to a method that purges phosphates and nutrients in rock. It involves a fair amount of work. You need to have a heater, a powerhead, complete darkness, and many 100% waterchanges.

"Curing" rock is different. It is essentially tossing rock into a tub with a powerhead and heater if necessary. During this process you can add ammonia and even bacteria if you want to get a good strong cycle. If it becomes apparent that your rock is loaded with phosphates you can either do nothing, "purge" it (replacing that which shall not be used), treat with gfo, or dose Lanthinum Chloride to deal with those phosphates.

You can bleach the rock with 1/2cup bleach per gallon of water to kill anything on it and dissolve most of the organics. The rock will need to be "cured" or "purged" afterwards.

Then you have acid bathing which removes the outer layer of rock. This either removes a layer contaminated by phosphate or exposing phosphates that are bound deep in the rock. This rock also needs to be cured afterwords as it is completely dead. It is by far the most aggressive method for "cleaning up" rock. Imo this method is rapidly and unnecessarily becoming popular as a first choice treatment.

The preferred treatment really depends on the original source of the rock.

[jda]

When exactly did we stop teaching "common sense" in school?

When we stopped letting people make their own mistakes and try and baby-proof everything so that the idiots don't feel stupid or get hurt. ...like the creation of this thread.

[homer1475]

when we stopped letting people make their own mistakes and try and baby-proof everything so that the idiots don't feel stupid or get hurt. ...like the creation of this thread.

+1

If people are to stupid to do their own research and figure out what the term "cooking" refers to, then they deserve to be hurt by actually "cooking" the rock. Its called natural selection, and when people start helping the idiots out and baby proofing everything is the reason the earth is getting overpopulated.

[Moort82]

The problem is the term is so widespread it has different meanings already. If you ask most people over here what cooking is they will acid stripping of the Rock. The problem is what it actually (apparently anyway I'm not 100% sure that cooking actually means curing in the dark and this is the misconception) means is the least likely scenario you'd come up with.
I also think that as much as we try to educate people on these things you are always going to have those in the know and those that aren't. I'd wager that most people who keep palythoa don't even know the risks or probably even what they are. For every person on the forum in this hobby there are plenty of people who aren't.

[davocean]

+1

If people are to stupid to do their own research and figure out what the term "cooking" refers to, then they deserve to be hurt by actually "cooking" the rock. Its called natural selection, and when people start helping the idiots out and baby proofing everything is the reason the earth is getting overpopulated.

Well, common sense tells me that if someone or their family is made sick, or worse, and the media does what it does, and the groups that already want to put restrictions on our hobby uses that as leverage, this could affect you and our hobby.
Just something to think about.

[newlights]

Ive known of people around here to "freeze" rock to kill everything on it. Id assume that would work, and be a safe quick alternative but still think "curing" is the best way.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[homer1475]

Well, common sense tells me that if someone or their family is made sick, or worse, and the media does what it does, and the groups that already want to put restrictions on our hobby uses that as leverage, this could affect you and our hobby.
Just something to think about.

And stupid people will still be stupid regardless of what term we use prepare rocks. It's the stupid uninformed people that everyone is trying to save. Changing a term will in no way effect these same people because they still won't research what "preparing" means.

Restrictions on the hobby wouldn't be a bad thing, like stopping live cultivation of natural coral reefs, but plain old saying you cant keep a reef tank anymore is just ludicrous. It would be like these people telling you that you cannot keep a dog as a pet anymore because other people beat, leave outside, starve, etc, dogs.

[matthemmings]

'Cycling' seems a better term IMO

Sent from my KFFOWI using Tapatalk

[davocean]

And stupid people will still be stupid regardless of what term we use prepare rocks. It's the stupid uninformed people that everyone is trying to save. Changing a term will in no way effect these same people because they still won't research what "preparing" means.

Restrictions on the hobby wouldn't be a bad thing, like stopping live cultivation of natural coral reefs, but plain old saying you cant keep a reef tank anymore is just ludicrous. It would be like these people telling you that you cannot keep a dog as a pet anymore because other people beat, leave outside, starve, etc, dogs.

You are using words I don't recall anyone saying, I know I did not say anyone won't be able to keep a reef tank anymore.

It's weird to me, no one is asking anyone to put any special effort into this really, or donate anything, it takes almost zero effort, and it helps to inform, or not misinform someone, avoids anyone getting sick or headaches for those of us in the hobby, I really don't see what the big gripe is.

Anyway, I've seen this term change suggestion mentioned before, I did not put a whole lot of thought into it at the time, but it made me more aware of the issue, and then I saw the mistake repeated, and the most obvious of what not do do pic posted...and a pic of that persons kids in their profile pic...

So that struck a nerve in me, it made me write sk8r and say hey, that suggestion you wrote maybe a month ago, well maybe there was something to that as I'm seeing this mistake repeated.

Some people go through life not caring enough to lift a finger to help a stranger, I'm not one of those people.

[saf1]

Some people go through life not caring enough to lift a finger to help a stranger, I'm not one of those people.

And others serve in the military for 30 years but still wonder why common sense doesn't apply. Just to put it in perspective for you... But alas it is derailing the thread and the OP has nothing but good intentions. That I am very aware of.

[davocean]

And others serve in the military for 30 years but still wonder why common sense doesn't apply. Just to put it in perspective for you... But alas it is derailing the thread and the OP has nothing but good intentions. That I am very aware of.

I would somewhat agree on the common sense thing if kids were not involved on this particular post.

[jda]

Unless you go back and change years and years of posts and articles, then you do a bit of harm since people won't be able to find out how to cook rock. If this thread is any indication, it isn't like very many people know how to do it. This thread did not ask for anything that could actually make a difference, like a sticky with links to the procedure that could educate and create awareness. Instead, we focus on a term, which means nothing in a society today where people say that they "murdered a plate of tacos," "I'm sorry" for everything and even things that they cannot actually be sorry for, "best ever" or "worst ever" with no idea of what an absolute is, or "killed it" at golf, basketball or taking a test.

Before this gets turned into some philanthropic mission, remember that fool proofing or dumbing stuff down just creates bigger fools who are dumber. If you want to help, then educate - write something up, or open a thread for discussion and get the message out to people.

This snippet could do way more good than changing the term. "You might need to cook the rock - this does not mean to heat it up. There are plenty of posts on the procedure over the years if you want to search for them."

BTW - I don't think that anybody has to worry about the future of this hobby until at least 2020. I am pretty sure that most of the folks who could do anything about it would burn every coral reef in the world to make cheaper power if it would yield another nickel in profit.

[alton]

I am re-cycling a tub of old liverock now. I never understood the term cooking liverock anyway. Remember when the term unleaded gas came out and the gas companies charged more for it? Because we all thought they had to filter the lead out. If you change the term now in a couple years cooking will go away just like many other terms and sayings. My kids still look at me funny when I say the word Ice House, versus conveinence store. Or Ice box versus refrigerator. See how fast the meaning of a word can go away? Yes I am old, and will now stop rambling.

[Timfish]

Bump

[Dagfish]

Unbelievable

He was really cooking on the stove:bounce1::crazy1:

[organism]

Instead, we focus on a term, which means nothing in a society today where people say that they "murdered a plate of tacos," "I'm sorry" for everything and even things that they cannot actually be sorry for, "best ever" or "worst ever" with no idea of what an absolute is, or "killed it" at golf, basketball or taking a test.

Before this gets turned into some philanthropic mission, remember that fool proofing or dumbing stuff down just creates bigger fools who are dumber.

Those aren't great examples. "Cooking rock" is something people can and frequently do take literally. I've never seen people looking for taco or basketball game murderers, but I can't throw a rock without hitting a couple threads where people ask how long to boil rock to cook it properly.

This isn't about fool-proofing, it's that we have a secret insider term for something that is both confusing and dangerous to people who are new to the hobby. Expecting people to know the oblique definition of a term they've never heard isn't on them, it's on us, which means if they get hurt it also isn't on them, it's on us. This has nothing to do with common sense, it only feels like it if you have hobby experience because it's easy to lose perspective. I guarantee there was a time when any one of us could have been convinced into boiling our live rock because we just didn't know any better.

[organism]

What about "purging rock"?

That sounds much more applicable to me. Would be easy to throw into a filter too if they tagged it to auto-correct phrases like "cook rock", "cook live rock", "cooking rock", "boiling rock", etc...

[organism]

ttt

[mcgyvr]

Let see..
Cooking rock
cook
cooked

edit.. Nope... they still haven't added those works to this sites "banned word filter"

*********.com but I sure can't mention other "like minded" forums..

[Timfish]

Bump