Phosguard instead of GFO

[Elricsfate]

So I have a decent sized container of phosguard which I bought due to an algae outbreak. I have the BRS dual reactor coming for use on a different tank, and I am wondering if there is any particular reason not to use the phosguard in the GFO reactor, rather than buying GFO. At least until I run out of the phosguard.

Seems like they are/do the same thing basically. Am I missing something?

[GimpyFin]

They're similar, but Phosguard is aluminum oxide and depletes rather quickly compared to gfo (Depending on how much phosphate is being removed, of course) and can release phosphate back into the water when exhausted (Unlike gfo.) It's also best used for media bags, not reactors because of the dust it creates when tumbled.

[ajm83]

and can release phosphate back into the water when exhausted (Unlike gfo.)

Think you'll find that's a myth :)

[Potatohead]

They both will release, but the level in the tank has to be significantly lower than the level in the media, which is unlikely.

[GimpyFin]

Think you'll find that's a myth :)


I've used both and found it to be quite true. :beachbum:

[jd371]

I started with GFO but I switched to Phosgaurd because the GFO would clump up by the third day in the BRS reactor, I tried everything that was suggested but it kept on clumping. Phosguard shouldn't be tumbled. I run the Phosguard in conjunction with GAC separated with sponges. I put enough of both so they deplete around the same time. The only thing with Phosgaurd I heard is that it might release some aluminum particles that could agitate some coral so it needs to be rinsed well before running it your tank. I rinse and also run the output from the reactor through a filter sock just in case, but in the time I've been using Phosgaurd I have seen no ill effects to my coral.

[ajm83]

They both will release, but the level in the tank has to be significantly lower than the level in the media, which is unlikely.

I've used both and found it to be quite true. :beachbum:

Okay, show your proof of this occurring then. Seachem explicitly state that it does not release phosphate or silicate into the water.

Irreversible binding
It does not leach phosphate or silicate back into the water and may be removed, dried, and returned to service until exhausted.
http://www.seachem.com/phosguard.php

There is no disclaimer there, they do not say "except when phosphate is really low", nor do they do not say "Irreversible binding, except when exhausted"

:deadhorse:

[EdgeN]

I've used both and found it to be quite true. :beachbum:

Just out of curiosity how do you know this? It says right on the bottle that this doesn't happen and I'm more inclined to believe Seachem then some random person sitting at a computer.
FWIW I've been using the product for about 6 months now and haven't had any problems with this that I know of. I use the recommended dosage and put this in a mesh bag in my HOB filter. It's left there for two weeks and then replaced. The tank is definitely not spotless, but overall it looks pretty damn good IMO, and I use tap water.

[Elricsfate]

I started with GFO but I switched to Phosgaurd because the GFO would clump up by the third day in the BRS reactor, I tried everything that was suggested but it kept on clumping. Phosguard shouldn't be tumbled. I run the Phosguard in conjunction with GAC separated with sponges. I put enough of both so they deplete around the same time. The only thing with Phosgaurd I heard is that it might release some aluminum particles that could agitate some coral so it needs to be rinsed well before running it your tank. I rinse and also run the output from the reactor through a filter sock just in case, but in the time I've been using Phosgaurd I have seen no ill effects to my coral.

I got the dual reactor, so my plan was carbon in one side, phosguard in the other. But if I pack the phosguard in so that it does not tumble I should be okay with regard to the grinding issues...right?

[Greaser9999]

According to seachem after testing they came to the conclusion that phosguard will only release aluminum oxide into yiur tank if your pH is around 5-6 which like they stated, "If your pH is that low your probably got worse problems than phosphate

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[GimpyFin]

Okay, show your proof of this occurring then. Seachem explicitly state that it does not release phosphate or silicate into the water.



http://www.seachem.com/phosguard.php

There is no disclaimer there, they do not say "except when phosphate is really low", nor do they do not say "Irreversible binding, except when exhausted"

:deadhorse:

Just out of curiosity how do you know this? It says right on the bottle that this doesn't happen and I'm more inclined to believe Seachem then some random person sitting at a computer.
FWIW I've been using the product for about 6 months now and haven't had any problems with this that I know of. I use the recommended dosage and put this in a mesh bag in my HOB filter. It's left there for two weeks and then replaced. The tank is definitely not spotless, but overall it looks pretty damn good IMO, and I use tap water.


No reason to get all wound up. When I made my first post, it was for aluminum oxide in general, not necessarily the Seachem branded variant. I've used Kent's phosphate sponge in a bag (Also aluminum oxide) in the past and did daily testing while using it. I did observe the levels drop, stay down briefly, and then rise back up after a few days until I changed the media again. (Hanna ULR phosphorous.)

[EdgeN]

No reason to get all wound up.

I'm not wound up, I just wanted to know how you know this. After that comment though, I don't believe a word you say now. :rolleyes:

What's his name was right, those ROTM tags have created some monsters.

[Dealseer]

I'm not wound up, I just wanted to know how you know this. After that comment though, I don't believe a word you say now. :rolleyes:

What's his name was right, those ROTM tags have created some monsters.

Agreed.

[ajm83]

I did observe the levels drop, stay down briefly, and then rise back up after a few days until I changed the media again. (Hanna ULR phosphorous.)

I read that as the levels dropped until the media was exhausted, then feeding etc cause it to start rising again until you added new media.

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[jd371]

I got the dual reactor, so my plan was carbon in one side, phosguard in the other. But if I pack the phosguard in so that it does not tumble I should be okay with regard to the grinding issues...right?
Yes, I pack the Phosgaurd between the sponges so I get no movement at all.

[tkeracer619]

I'd be inclined to use it but start small, rinse well, and make sure it doesn't tumble. I typically use 1/4 the dose but really only have it around because it was cheap at the LFS while I was waiting on more GFO. It does exhaust rapidly and can drop the levels in the tank equally as fast so be careful not to shock the system. The higher the phosphate levels in the aquarium the less I'd use at a time.

It's a good idea in this hobby not to take label claims as fact. Question them.

This isn't some new product that just came out. It's been well scrutinized by many reefers. Many have had issues over the years and many have had success. Here is an article from 2003 by RHF which discusses increased aluminum concentrations after its use. It proves it can release aluminum but how that effects actual functioning aquariums with regular maintenance, filtration, and water changes has afaik been left up to hobbyists interpretation.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/7/chemistry

[anthonys51]

ps just because a company states something on the package doesn't make it true. If that was the case, red bull would really give you wings.

[Elricsfate]

ps just because a company states something on the package doesn't make it true. If that was the case, red bull would really give you wings.

While I get the gist, this statement is a bit overly simplistic. There is a difference between a marketing slogan and a performance report.

Fire extinguishers really do extinguish fires, brakes really do stop cars, etc.

While I know for certain that what you have said above is true, the converse is also true. Just because a company is trying to make money, doesn't mean what the label says isn't true. And I would go further in saying that just because someone doesn't believe it doesn't make it untrue either.

The simple fact is that the stuff leeches or it doesn't. With all the scientists running around in this hobby it should be a simple matter to verify the claim. And since the companies (the big, reputable ones) know this, and their sales depend on their reputation, from a business perspective they have a pretty large disincentive to lie. But again, it should be simple enough to verify one way or the other.

Just my two cents.

[rtparty]

False claims and misinformation have never stopped a company from lying to us. Look at Brightwell early on. Most of their "science" and claims were debunked easily by actual chemists/scientists.

Not all Brightwell stuff is bad though. I have used and am using to seed my new tank their bacteria product. I like it and it works well from what I can see.

There is a ton of snake oil in this hobby. Whether PhosGard releases phosphates back into the water, I have no clue. I used it for years with no issues that I knew of. But trust me, informed hobbyists are very, very rare. Seachem could outright lie on their packaging and would still sell like crazy at the big box stores. The average hobbyist never cares to research it.

[anthonys51]

Fire extinguisher and brakes are regulated or independently tested but outside agencies. Phosgruad is more like supplemental we tank are Not regulated by the government
It's kind of like saying abbot viagra works so Gnc love doctor pill must also work but Abbott needed to prove this pill to the FDA gnc didn't

But I will agree I have used both in my tank with great results but I also change mine out every 2 weeks to a month. Once I test and my phosphates go up I change it out


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[Elricsfate]

Fire extinguisher and brakes are regulated or independently tested but outside agencies. Phosgruad is more like supplemental we tank are Not regulated by the government
It's kind of like saying abbot viagra works so Gnc love doctor pill must also work but Abbott needed to prove this pill to the FDA gnc didn't

But I will agree I have used both in my tank with great results but I also change mine out every 2 weeks to a month. Once I test and my phosphates go up I change it out


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Wait...are you saying the GNC "Love Doctor" pill doesn't work?!

[tkeracer619]

:lol:

[anthonys51]

Wait...are you saying the GNC "Love Doctor" pill doesn't work?!



lol made my whole day


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[fishgate]

Get rid of both and go with an ATS.