Refugium question

[aquamann183]

So I just filled my tank and it's now cycling. I have not filled the refugium section yet..It uses the return as the supply for it. Should I put sand in it and start letting water go through that area as well, or should I wait awhile for the rest of the tank to cycle?

Thanks!

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[hotelbravo]

You will get many many mixed views on what to do with your refugium. I have set mine up without sand and instead used about 10 lbs of live rock rubble. If you were to put sand in there I would do it now while it's cycling vs later

[aquamann183]

You will get many many mixed views on what to do with your refugium. I have set mine up without sand and instead used about 10 lbs of live rock rubble. If you were to put sand in there I would do it now while it's cycling vs later
What is the name of the rock rubble you have? Do you have a link? Why did you pick rock over sand?

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[rjjr1963]

I started mine up from day one with chaeto. I put in a snail with coraline on it's shell and it's slowly covering the inside of the fuge. Tank is 6 weeks old.

[aquamann183]

I started mine up from day one with chaeto. I put in a snail with coraline on it's shell and it's slowly covering the inside of the fuge. Tank is 6 weeks old.
That sounds pretty good! I guess I'll start it up! Just have to decide whether I want the sand in there or not.

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[mcgyvr]

Start it all up..
Whats going in the fuge?
I wouldn't put sand nor rocks unless needed for any macros that grow in sand,etc..

[aquamann183]

Start it all up..
Whats going in the fuge?
I wouldn't put sand nor rocks unless needed for any macros that grow in sand,etc..
Honestly not positive. I was thinking rock and a few small rocks or something. But I have no idea. Lol.
What would be in your refugium mcgyvr?

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[mcgyvr]

Honestly not positive. I was thinking rock and a few small rocks or something. But I have no idea. Lol.
What would be in your refugium mcgyvr?


Depends on if its a display fuge with multiple macro algaes,etc.. (usually not in a sump location though) or chaeto only fuge or if maintaining a pod population is your primary goal..

My only real concern with rock/sand is that flow can be lower there and it could just be a place for "detritus",etc.. to collect.. But that may not be a big deal depending on your tank/setup..

If chaeto only then I would have no rocks/sand and just plenty of space for the chaeto to tumble/grow,etc..

[aquamann183]

Depends on if its a display fuge or chaeto only fuge or if maintaining a pod population is your primary goal..

My only real concern with rock/sand is that flow can be lower there and it could just be a place for "detritus",etc.. to collect.. But that may not be a big deal depending on your tank/setup..
It will probably be a display fuge due to the way I set up my tank. Maintaining pod population would be nice, but that would include chaeto which I may do, but looking at all the possibilities.

When I get home I will take a few pictures of what the fuge area looks like and show you what I have to work with.

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[aquamann183]

So it's not all completely done but this is the gist of what I've got going on.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170304/a8614243d5882d771e98c754c804190a.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170304/a0aa809b3d8561e21f5bfefb6e750b22.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170304/491be2d4e4d405185e4eee3de61ed733.jpg

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[CAPT_Dave]

That looks like a really nice setup. It looks like your drain section is on the far right and I assume that's where you plan to put your skimmer. With two return lines I assume you're using the Herbby Method. Wish I had. The return is obviously in the middle and you've plumbed for a large fuge section on the left.

If that's the case I would put an algae turf scrubber (ATS - lots of good posts on those in RC) in that section and add some rubble to provide good surface area for additional bacteria for bio filtering. Once you're cycled put some hermit crabs, emerald crabs, and/or snails in there to deal with detritus. Get a cleanup crew from https://www.reefcleaners.org and put some of them in the fuge. Use one of your 2 lines to provide water to the ATS and the other to branch off to a manifold for media reactors, like GFO, carbon, or Ca reactor if you're going to have lots of SPS, which you would then feed back into your return section. There's a lot you could do with that as your tank matures over the years. Plumbing it in now will save you headaches later.

[CAPT_Dave]

One other thought I just had: if you're going to put grow lights over your fuge for an ATS or cheato, then you might consider lining the return section with some opaque plastic or acrylic to black it out. That would prevent algae or choraline algae from growing in there and potentially clogging your pump inlet.

[CAPT_Dave]

you might also cover the tops of your overflow boxes to black them out. Mine is absolutely full of algae that I can't adequately scrub out and now I'm in a constant battle to keep the teeth clear. It will also prevent critters you want in your display from moving to your sump! It would be almost impossible to catch a fish that jumped into your overflow box. Cover it with opaque plastic or acrylic now and you won't have that problem later if you get a wrasse or something jumpy.

[CAPT_Dave]

Re-reading my first post I see I wrote to put the ATS in the fuge section. You'd actually put it above the fuge so it drains into it. That would give you plenty of room in the fuge itself for cheato and the pods that would eventually flourish there. Nice food source if you want a Mandarin some day. CAUTION - it will take 6 months to build up a pod population sufficient to support a Mandarin so don't get one early!

[aquamann183]

Thank you captain Dave for the reply, it all sounds good!
You are correct, skimmer in the first section, just haven't thrown it in there yet. I also placed the two ball valves there so I can use one for reactors and such.

Can I still put some sort of black vinyl on the baffles even though I have water in my sump? Any reading on that?

I do have a grow light I plan to use but it isn't ideal for an algae turf scrubber if I go that route. I have thought about it in the past but never actually went through with it.

I also plan on covering the overflow boxes, I think that is a great reason for the reasons you said. Also I will have those black to try and keep light out of the overflows hopefully.


Also maybe I can position the fuge light or use a piece of sheet metal and put it on the light to make it where the light won't get into the return area. Maybe..

But all in all, I like what you said! Just have to decide on an ats, chaeto, or neither. Lol.

Thanks again Dave!


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[CAPT_Dave]

Blackout in the sump may not be critical. I doubt most people do it - I didn't but wish I had because I do have some coraline algae growing in there and would rather not. It's not a problem for me now but if it becomes one it will be a big one because my sump is under the stand and really hard to work in. For yours, I'd just get some 1/8 or 1/16 inch sheet plastic cut to fit the interior of the return section, slide them in and clip them at the top. Alternatively you could even just put a single sheet on your still dry fuge side and silicon it in there. That should be enough.

If you forego both an ATS and cheato you'll have a really hard time controlling green hair, film and bubble algae in your display. The idea with both methods is that they'll eat up all the phosphates in your water and starve out other plants. Since you are going to have algae, the idea is to have it where you don't mind so much rather than all over your glass and rocks. From what I've read on this forum and others is that ATSes are hands down the most effective way of doing this. I don't have room for an ATS under my stand so I use cheato only. Your setup gives you room to do both and I am most envious!

[aquamann183]

Blackout in the sump may not be critical. I doubt most people do it - I didn't but wish I had because I do have some coraline algae growing in there and would rather not. It's not a problem for me now but if it becomes one it will be a big one because my sump is under the stand and really hard to work in. For yours, I'd just get some 1/8 or 1/16 inch sheet plastic cut to fit the interior of the return section, slide them in and clip them at the top. Alternatively you could even just put a single sheet on your still dry fuge side and silicon it in there. That should be enough.

If you forego both an ATS and cheato you'll have a really hard time controlling green hair, film and bubble algae in your display. The idea with both methods is that they'll eat up all the phosphates in your water and starve out other plants. Since you are going to have algae, the idea is to have it where you don't mind so much rather than all over your glass and rocks. From what I've read on this forum and others is that ATSes are hands down the most effective way of doing this. I don't have room for an ATS under my stand so I use cheato only. Your setup gives you room to do both and I am most envious!
You said if I have an ats and chaeto I'll have a hard time controlling GHA, bubble algae etc..Did you mean I'd have an easy time keeping it under control since it will stay in the fuge?

Also, since it will be easy for people to see the refugium what is the best way to make it look "nice"?

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[CAPT_Dave]

I said if you FOREGO ATS and Cheato you'll have a hard time. You should definitely do one, the other, or both to help control algae. The ATS might work so well that you might have a hard time growing cheato if you tried to do both. I don't know.

As I was looking at your system I thought the tank and fuge were in a fish room and I was looking at the back with a hole cut in your wall for viewing on the other side. If the sump/fuge is to be on display...I can't think of a way to build a pretty ATS. Perhaps just cheato then...or maybe something more interesting like mangroves to take up your phosphates.

[CAPT_Dave]

Article on Mangroves in reef aquaria. http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-12/ac/feature/index.php

Key point is way down in the article: "For all my love for keeping these plants, however, I must admit that they truly are not comparatively efficient nutrient export mechanisms. It's a very simple matter. Growth overall is slow, and leaf drop is often concurrent with new leaf growth. The net gain of mass from these plants is, in fact, dismally slow, and leaf drop alone (as a vehicle for nutrient export) cannot compare to a vigorous Chaetomorpha or Gracilaria based vegetable filter."

If you like the look of the mangroves then a good solution might be mangroves on top chaeto down in the water but you'd need to make sure you get enough light down low where the chaeto is.

Another alternative is this a cheato reactor. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=24975910

This is actually from my LFS in San Diego and they're getting a lot of growth, which means a lot of nutrient export. I don't know how much of a pain it is to clean it out each month, though.

[hotelbravo]

What is the name of the rock rubble you have? Do you have a link? Why did you pick rock over sand?

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There is no name to this rubble it's just broken pieces of regular live rock. I chose it over sand just over personal preference it looks better IMO and it also creates more homes and breeding grounds for things like copepods and amphipods.

It's hard to see much rubble in this picture but this is my refugium currently
http://i1300.photobucket.com/albums/ag85/hotelbravo251/IMG_20170225_202917_zpsu7fqryyr.jpg (http://s1300.photobucket.com/user/hotelbravo251/media/IMG_20170225_202917_zpsu7fqryyr.jpg.html)

[aquamann183]

That is correct, the tank is in the wall, so the main viewing is on the other side, but I made it where you can easily see the whole backside as well, thought that would be nice. Unfortunately the tank is not in a fish room, pretty much just out in the open. 😂 Lol.

I see what you're saying about the ats and chaeto, if you have the ats it may starve the chaeto of the nutrients it needs to grow. I also like the idea of the reactor and I have a few of those laying around, so I could definitely do that.

Right now I'm thinking about going towards the ats route, I will start to look into that. If I do that the nice thing is that it's all in a controlled area, so I could just leave the rest of that area open space, or something. But it won't be as cluttered so to speak.
I will definitely give those articles a read too, thank you!

Okay, I see what you're saying about the rock rubble now. The fuge is looking pretty good! 👍


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[aquamann183]

Also, I have a piece of lean I can cut but it's clear. If I spray paint it black would that be harmful for the aquarium?

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[aquamann183]

Lexan*

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[CAPT_Dave]

I don't think I'd put anything painted in the water.

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[homer1475]

Painting it and letting it dry for a few days is fine. Just make sure its dry.

I have several peices of painted plastic in my tank, and all is well.

[aquamann183]

Painting it and letting it dry for a few days is fine. Just make sure its dry.

I have several peices of painted plastic in my tank, and all is well.
Okay, thank you! Just making sure! Lol.

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