Beananimal siphon issues.

[Ryagon]

Setting up the plumbing for my first install and am having issues with the siphon. The secondary seams to have more flow. If I tweak the main symphony the best I can get is a tiny bit of air bubbles (even waiting several minutes to flush the line) or else the secondary line kicks in and major bubbles out of it and major gurgling. See the attached video, this is in the best position I could get myself. But I am new and don't know what I am doing so am asking for any advise please.

https://vimeo.com/207959736

[JUNBUG361]

Adjust 1 of your drains(gate valve) to increase the water level on the overflow. That water level should skim on open drain(emergency)

[Ryagon]

I can't get the water into the emergency, even with the gate valve fully closed. Just puts crap tons of bubbles through the secondary.

[VGT]

Adjust 1 of your drains(gate valve) to increase the water level on the overflow. That water level should skim on open drain(emergency)

Emergency should be dry on a bean, only herbies have a skim over the emergency.

[VGT]

Why do you have holes drilled into the top of the center and right? One should not have a hole, never going to start a siphon if it continually sucks in air.

[Legot]

It looks like you have a hole in the top of your main siphon. Try sealing that.

[Ryagon]

Ok after playing with the heights of the pipes and tweaking the gate valve I got it good no noise from the flow. I can however hear the water trickling over the weir, is there anything I can do about that?

[Ryagon]

Why do you have holes drilled into the top of the center and right? One should not have a hole, never going to start a siphon if it continually sucks in air.

Those u shapes came from the manufacture and are supposed to be installed as is.

[miPapareef]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170311/c1cd4b6f3919be59b76bc703350cf251.jpg

The key to the weir noise is to raise the secondary up so the drop over the weir is less.


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[miPapareef]

I have the secondary almost touching the cover. And the primary only 3/4" from the bottom.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170311/4f868ec60cc81c4aba4ab1a687311497.jpg

It is silent except for when the waves get going high. I haven't been able to make it silent with standing waves in the take.


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[Zmann]

I have the same synergy overflow. Your main siphon with the valve on it, either seal the hole on the 90 (which is what I did) or raise the backup siphon so your main siphon is totally under water including the open hole.

[Civicman86]

How deep is the main line into the sump? I had this exact same problem and it ended up that the line was to deep - it should be an inch or less.

[notenoughtanks]

Just checking, is that a test run with fresh or saltwater? I made all my pipes a little shorter than Synergy recommends to have a little more safety space and mine is dead silent without plugging the holes or anything like that. But I am only running 600gph through mine so...

[Ryagon]

How deep is the main line into the sump? I had this exact same problem and it ended up that the line was to deep - it should be an inch or less.

It is several inches like maybe 4-5. I'm using a Trigger Systems sapphire 34 sump and it has precut pipes so I used those.


The test is fresh water. What that mess it up?

[miPapareef]

My primary and secondary drains are 5" below the water. No issue with that. Also have the sapphire 34.

I didn't hear a difference with fresh or salt water.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170312/60c176ae20954cc003c4020a424a6f52.jpg


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[miPapareef]

Good luck with the build and nice equipment!

In your sump you will have the same water fall noises if any chamber is too different in level. I mover the adjustable weir as high as it could go to stop the water fall noise in the socks. Then raised the level of my ato in the return pump chamber.

Here's a pic of the drop from return chamber to the skimmer/fudge level.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170312/a86112b4de36c2d0d3c9ea66e62ca0b4.jpg

And here's the fuge to return chamber..

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170312/621209bdbc1b675d8b9f8199df090c55.jpg


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[notenoughtanks]

The test is fresh water. What that mess it up?


Yes. Idk if it's the SG or what but it does.

[Ryagon]

Thanks for the replies. I had it going mostly quiet, no gurgling or anything and just a trickle noise over the weir which I thought was an acceptable level. Now that I have the tank moved up against the wall and filled with salt it seams to have gone louder. Not sure what exactly is causing the water noise now.

[Elricsfate]

I have the same synergy overflow. Your main siphon with the valve on it, either seal the hole on the 90 (which is what I did) or raise the backup siphon so your main siphon is totally under water including the open hole.

The Synergy comes with instructions. If you cut the PVC to the dimensions called for in the instructions (2 1/2", 3 1/4", and 7") it works perfectly. I have two of these installed on 2 tanks. Both worked from the moment I turned the pump on. All I did was adjust the gate valve on the main until the system was quiet enough for my liking. Been running for several months now, and I have never touched the gate valve, nor had any issues, since day 1. And the hole is not under water...

[Ryagon]

The Synergy comes with instructions. If you cut the PVC to the dimensions called for in the instructions (2 1/2", 3 1/4", and 7") it works perfectly. I have two of these installed on 2 tanks. Both worked from the moment I turned the pump on. All I did was adjust the gate valve on the main until the system was quiet enough for my liking. Been running for several months now, and I have never touched the gate valve, nor had any issues, since day 1. And the hole is not under water...

I cut them to the exact dimensions they showed in their how to video. The dimensions you have listed look correct. I almost hate to mess with it more in case I cant get it back to how it was and just make it worse..

[Zmann]

The Synergy comes with instructions. If you cut the PVC to the dimensions called for in the instructions (2 1/2", 3 1/4", and 7") it works perfectly. I have two of these installed on 2 tanks. Both worked from the moment I turned the pump on. All I did was adjust the gate valve on the main until the system was quiet enough for my liking. Been running for several months now, and I have never touched the gate valve, nor had any issues, since day 1. And the hole is not under water...

I know it comes with instructions, my cuts are exactly what the instructions say, the noise level from my 40 gal breeder that has short plumbing with many 90's, drains are only under water 1 inch in the sump,,, is dead silent, dead silent!!! Ever since I covered the hole in the 90 on the siphon. I never touch the gate valve since I adjusted it the first time.

Thanks

[Ryagon]

I know it comes with instructions, my cuts are exactly what the instructions say, the noise level from my 40 gal breeder that has short plumbing with many 90's, drains are only under water 1 inch in the sump,,, is dead silent, dead silent!!! Ever since I covered the hole in the 90 on the siphon.

Thanks though

I'm not doubting you that it is silent, which is why I am confused. (this is like me and computers I love them and mess with them all the time but I have the strangest issues) I did not read anywhere that said the hole on siphon U needed to be closed so I left it as is. Maybe that will help. What did you use to seal it?

[Elricsfate]

I know it comes with instructions, my cuts are exactly what the instructions say, the noise level from my 40 gal breeder that has short plumbing with many 90's, drains are only under water 1 inch in the sump,,, is dead silent, dead silent!!! Ever since I covered the hole in the 90 on the siphon.

Thanks though


Perhaps I will temporarily stop up the hole to see if it makes any difference. Though it aint broke, so I'm not sure I want to fix it.

In any event, if you're happy with yours, that's the whole point. I'm just saying mine is quiet without covering the hole. It's not dead silent though. So, perhaps I'll cover the hole to see what happens.

[Zmann]

I'm not doubting you that it is silent, which is why I am confused. (this is like me and computers I love them and mess with them all the time but I have the strangest issues) I did not read anywhere that said the hole on siphon U needed to be closed so I left it as is. Maybe that will help. What did you use to seal it?

Dont know where it came from, it was in my shop,,,,it was a small threaded plastic plug.

Been at this reef crap for ages but its the first time I ever installed this type of overflow. In the basement when I finished the cabinet I threw the tank on top of it and filled it with fresh water. I was not impressed with the noise level even know the drains were only 1 inch underwater in the sump and even know I messed with the valve. So I screwed around with the size of the stand offs that the 90's mount to in the back of the overflow,,,this did nothing. I put a piece of tape over the hole in the 90 on the siphon because it wasnt underwater and couldnt figure out why they put holes in both 90's when full siphon in a drain runs best with no air entering,,,doesnt start the best but once running, runs the best. This is where I ended it.

Now it sits in my living room and it is dead quiet. Drains and DC return pump are dead quiet. If I shut off the TV I can just barely, barely here the AC pump on the skimmer running.

[Ryagon]

When I cover the hole on the main it appears to not even get any water going through it even after 10 minutes, everything is running through the secondary.

[Civicman86]

Im telling you it sounds like the main is airlocked. I had this hallen where almost all the flow would go through the secondary. If you don't aant to cut the orignal pipe, grab some pvc to trial it. It worked for me.

Only one 90 should be vented.

[Ryagon]

Im telling you it sounds like the main is airlocked. I had this hallen where almost all the flow would go through the secondary. If you don't aant to cut the orignal pipe, grab some pvc to trial it. It worked for me.

Only one 90 should be vented.

How does a line get airlocked?

[Zmann]

Make sure the gate valve is wide open. Get the water flowing, then start shutting it down till it starts getting quieter, then stop. Let it run for awhile and it should get more quiet by itself once all the air is out of the line. Also make sure the ends of your drain are only under water an inch in the sump or it wont work.

[Zmann]

In the video your drains in the sump are to far underwater

[miPapareef]

That hole on the main drain is there to start the siphon and go silent quickly after the return pump turns on. You won't want to mess with the gate valve each time you turn off and on the return pump and that's why there's a hole.

The problem with the hole is it will suck water and air if the stable water level is too low and too close to the hole. With the Synergy recommended heights, I found that the hole sucked air and made noise. An easy fix for this is lower the main and/or raise the secondary.


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[Ryagon]

That hole on the main drain is there to start the siphon and go silent quickly after the return pump turns on. You won't want to mess with the gate valve each time you turn off and on the return pump and that's why there's a hole.

The problem with the hole is it will suck water and air if the stable water level is too low and too close to the hole. With the Synergy recommended heights, I found that the hole sucked air and made noise. An easy fix for this is lower the main and/or raise the secondary.


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When I do that I get an unbearable loud weir/overflow waterfall. Doesn't matter the height, tried it several ways up and down.

[Zmann]

With my hole plugged I never touch the gate valve, ever. It stays in the same semi closed position, always.

I dont see a reason to lower or raise the secondary 90. Cut them and use them at the recommended height according to the instructions.



Ryagon this will be the last time I contribute to this thread, Im sure you will figure it out.

Plug the hole on the 90 of your siphon, make sure your drains that empty into your sump are only under water 1 inch. Fire the thing up with the gate valve all the way open. Once running close the gate valve slowly till it starts quieting down. Let it run for 5-10 mins and see if it gets quieter once all the air has purged out of the siphon line. If not close the valve a tiny bit more or maybe open it a tiny bit more. This is all the info I have for ya and I know it should work.

[Slats]

When I cover the hole on the main it appears to not even get any water going through it even after 10 minutes, everything is running through the secondary.

You don't have to do this but here is what I did after fighting with my Synergy Shadow 16" for too long to quiet it down. I just turned the secondary drain line into a secondary emergency line that is a little shorter than my main emergency. This allowed me to achieve no bubbles/gurgling in my main line and keep the water level high in the external box - no noise whatsoever over the weirs, only downside is that you are really no longer using a bean animal at this point.

http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a553/eslatts11/75%20Rimless/IMG_0052_zpsxppstxnb.jpg (http://s1283.photobucket.com/user/eslatts11/media/75%20Rimless/IMG_0052_zpsxppstxnb.jpg.html)

[Ryagon]

With my hole plugged I never touch the gate valve, ever. It stays in the same semi closed position, always.

I dont see a reason to lower or raise the secondary 90. Cut them and use them at the recommended height according to the instructions.



Ryagon this will be the last time I contribute to this thread, Im sure you will figure it out.

Plug the hole on the 90 of your siphon, make sure your drains that empty into your sump are only under water 1 inch. Fire the thing up with the gate valve all the way open. Once running close the gate valve slowly till it starts quieting down. Let it run for 5-10 mins and see if it gets quieter once all the air has purged out of the siphon line. If not close the valve a tiny bit more or maybe open it a tiny bit more. This is all the info I have for ya and I know it should work.

Thanks for your help. Still doesn't fix my issue I tried this. I can get it to siphon but when I do it is just a water fall of noise at the weir.


You don't have to do this but here is what I did after fighting with my Synergy Shadow 16" for too long to quiet it down. I just turned the secondary drain line into a secondary emergency line that is a little shorter than my main emergency. This allowed me to achieve no bubbles/gurgling in my main line and keep the water level high in the external box - no noise whatsoever over the weirs, only downside is that you are really no longer using a bean animal at this point.

I may try this later. I have a guy at Synergy reef trying to help me out, he seams to think it is how I plumbed my main and secondary, with the main having a 90 and the secondary a straight shot so it is wanting to take the secondary as the main. Not sure how to fix that if thats the case but if I can re work it maybe it will put me in the sweet spot of both silent drain and silent weir.

[Slats]

Thanks for your help. Still doesn't fix my issue I tried this. I can get it to siphon but when I do it is just a water fall of noise at the weir.




I may try this later. I have a guy at Synergy reef trying to help me out, he seams to think it is how I plumbed my main and secondary, with the main having a 90 and the secondary a straight shot so it is wanting to take the secondary as the main. Not sure how to fix that if thats the case but if I can re work it maybe it will put me in the sweet spot of both silent drain and silent weir.

Oh easy, just swap the pvc on the internal box so your main drain is now the straight shot and the secondary is the one with the 90.

[Civicman86]

How does a line get airlocked?

Flow will try to go where these is least resistance. I have found that water will get trapped in the main siphon pipe if that pipe goes too deep in the sump. I'm sure it has to do with the pressure difference in the pipes.

Like I said, if you have a piece of PVC laying around, I would give it a try.