Whats Up with this Cycle?

[themummra]

29 gallon tank with caribsea sand, dry rock, life rock
Dosed Ammonia to ~6-8ppm (higher than I planned) 4 days ago
Current test results are

http://i.imgur.com/MP1VwrR.jpg

[themummra]

http://i.imgur.com/MP1VwrR.jpg

[bertoni]

Those numbers seem reasonable to me. You'll just need to wait at this point. I might do some water changes or add some Prime or Amquel if there's any life on the live rock that I wanted to save.

[themummra]

Those numbers seem reasonable to me. You'll just need to wait at this point. I might do some water changes or add some Prime or Amquel if there's any life on the live rock that I wanted to save.

I don't have any Live rock in the tank. Just Dry Rock and Caribsea Life Rock

[themummra]

Which is where my confusion comes from, I didn't think it would be able to start making nitrates that fast without Live Rock?

[bertoni]

Ah, I see. I had never heard of that product. The company claims to have seeded it with bacteria, which might be possible. It's also very hard to predict how quickly bacteria will start to grow. I don't think those levels are all that surprising for a real system. We see a lot of variation in startup time. Personally, I'd just wait.

[themummra]

Ah, I see. I had never heard of that product. The company claims to have seeded it with bacteria, which might be possible. It's also very hard to predict how quickly bacteria will start to grow. I don't think those levels are all that surprising for a real system. We see a lot of variation in startup time. Personally, I'd just wait.

Thanks for the reply! I hadn't seen or used it before either but it looks really cool so I grabbed some/.

Definitely waiting for ammonia to hit 0, and then redose until it can hit 0 within 24 hours.

[Bananafish]

I've heard of Life Rock, never knew anyone who used it. Supposedly, seeded with bacteria - just not sure what kind.

This looks normal to me. How long is this tank up? You might add some BioZyme (red can) to speed it up a bit. I prefer this over any of the liquids, and I usually lay it down under the substrate (which you can't do anymore). But as Jonathan said, you're best bet is to wait.

[LX20000]

You really dosed it up high... I am cycling my 10 gallon nano, I dosed it to 2-3 ppm ammonia, and it has been slowly coming down for 8 days..... and I added bacteria.... 6-8ppm will take quite a while.

[mcgyvr]

Normal.. Carry on.. Do not add anymore ammonia.. Thats PLENTY..

[themummra]

New test results!

Ammonia has dropped quite a bit since yesterday. nitrites still 5+, nitrate dropped a little

http://i.imgur.com/sZFHguq.jpg

[bertoni]

Okay, that looks like reasonable progress. :)

[themummra]

More results! Ammonia down to 1 or .5 ppm? Should I wait till the Nitrite drops to redose Ammonia?

http://i.imgur.com/6azjnPD.jpg

[bertoni]

I wouldn't add any more ammonia. If you do want to add some, the timing isn't all that critical.

[themummra]

I wouldn't add any more ammonia. If you do want to add some, the timing isn't all that critical.

Should I add some after it's 0 to test that the tank can cycle ammonia to 0 in 24 hours?

[BryanCaruso]

I just went through a cycle myself. What I did is after the initial ammonia dose. I ghost fed the tank to keep the bacteria fed just a small amount of flake food is what I used Twice a day. Then when the nitrites were almost down then I went to ghost feeding every three days. I also used dryrock and a bacteria product, live sand and live rubble in the sump. 12 day cycle. I also did a 50% water change when nitrites hit zero and keep in mind with the API tests as long as you are reading nitrites they will give you a false positive on nitrates. Another thing make sure you shake bottle 2 for 30 seconds before you add bottle one. So add bottle 1 put lid on it invert several times then add the shaken up bottle 2 and shake for 1 minute it is in the instructions. And different then the ammonia test

[bertoni]

A tiny bit of ghost feeding is fine. I would wait for a day of zero ammonia and then consider stocking small animals, if I wanted any. At that point, the ghost feeding would help them grow and reproduce. A bit of food now wouldn't hurt, but given the very large initial ammonia dose, I wouldn't bother in this case. There should be plenty of fixed nitrogen in the system.

I'm not sure where the idea to test the ammonia processing capacity by re-dosing got started, but it doesn't make much sense to me.

[themummra]

I just went through a cycle myself. What I did is after the initial ammonia dose. I ghost fed the tank to keep the bacteria fed just a small amount of flake food is what I used Twice a day. Then when the nitrites were almost down then I went to ghost feeding every three days. I also used dryrock and a bacteria product, live sand and live rubble in the sump. 12 day cycle. I also did a 50% water change when nitrites hit zero and keep in mind with the API tests as long as you are reading nitrites they will give you a false positive on nitrates. Another thing make sure you shake bottle 2 for 30 seconds before you add bottle one. So add bottle 1 put lid on it invert several times then add the shaken up bottle 2 and shake for 1 minute it is in the instructions. And different then the ammonia test

Thanks for the advice! At the very least I am following the testing instructions. I am a chemical engineer student so doing lab related stuff is not too challenging. I didn't know that about the Nitrite test showing false positives for Nitrate. Why is that?

A tiny bit of ghost feeding is fine. I would wait for a day of zero ammonia and then consider stocking small animals, if I wanted any. At that point, the ghost feeding would help them grow and reproduce. A bit of food now wouldn't hurt, but given the very large initial ammonia dose, I wouldn't bother in this case. There should be plenty of fixed nitrogen in the system.

I'm not sure where the idea to test the ammonia processing capacity by re-dosing got started, but it doesn't make much sense to me.

Small animals being a CUC? Better get to work on picking that out then.

I understood it as follows: the point of a cycle is to get a bacteria population present that can eventually process ammonia from livestock waste. So redosing to a small amount and seeing if it gets to 0 within a day lets you know if its ready to process livestock waste.

[bertoni]

A cleanup crew would be a good start, and some people like to stock mysid shrimp, copepods, and amphipods to provide live food, and some cleanup.

Bacterial populations can change rapidly. They generally won't live long without food, so what we need is a seed population. The ammonia dose that was added probably is days worth of fish output. The excess bacteria that are dying now, or being killed by viruses, etc, will provide enough ammonia to keep the system going, if there's not enough available as is.

If I was planning to stock a large fish population in one shot, I might ghost feed ¼ of the total food I was going to give the fish. One day probably would be plenty of testing. Bacterial populations can grow very rapidly.

[BryanCaruso]

I never re dosed however doing my research. It seemed like some people wanted to see how fast the ammonia came down in a 24 hour period. Also some people thought that continuing dosing would prepare them for a larger bio load sooner. And I don't know why the nitrites results in a false positive of nitrates wheather it is API related or all tests just what I learned from my cycle

[bertoni]

Continued dosing won't prepare for a higher initial bio-load unless the dose is increased and the tank is not already surface-area-limited. Even then, the bacteria will start dying back very rapidly, so the effect is very short in duration.

Nitrate kits often work by reducing some of the nitrate to nitrite, and then detecting the nitrite, which is easier, chemically speaking. So small amounts of nitrite will show up as large amounts of nitrate.

[themummra]

Ammonia almost down to 0, Nitrites starting to drop and Nitrates are going up! I think we are almost through this.


http://i.imgur.com/FZO0MNC.jpg

[bertoni]

Okay, that looks like great progress!

[themummra]

Nitrates up, looks like ammonia and nitrites going down

http://i.imgur.com/odYlLFZ.png

[bertoni]

Hopefully the nitrite will be zero in a few days.

[themummra]

Hopefully the nitrite will be zero in a few days.

If things keep going well!

Then it will be time to add some CUC. I know I want a hermit crab and a shrimp, not sure on what kind or what snails yet.

[themummra]

Ammonia still down, nitrites going down and Nitrates are 100+ppm

Found a store with a clean, organized invertebrate section. And they are in a fishless system. Which is great as I do not have a quarantine setup yet.

[themummra]

Did a pH test as I hadn't done one yet.
I can't tell what color this is?


http://i.imgur.com/YFaWPU0.png

[btb72]

I'd say 8.1 so perfect. Don't worry about ph honestly.

[themummra]

I'd say 8.1 so perfect. Don't worry about ph honestly.

That confirms what I've read, basically its not worth chasing pH. That will be determined by alkalinity and CO2 exchange.

[bertoni]

That's correct. The pH will be set by the carbon dioxide level in the water and the alkalinity, and a fairly wide range, 7.8-8.4, will be fine. The corals might grow a bit more rapidly at the higher levels, but that's the only effect.

[themummra]

Progress!

I put a couple flakes of food in yesterday, now my nitrites are 0 or close to it. Should I do a water change and then stock CUC?

[themummra]

http://i.imgur.com/CdaWk4g.png

[bertoni]

I think that a few water changes would be a good idea, but I'd wait to see whether the ammonia test result gets more towards the zero color. A day or two should be fine. Ammonia kits often measure small levels of ammonia in clean water, though.

[themummra]

I think that a few water changes would be a good idea, but I'd wait to see whether the ammonia test result gets more towards the zero color. A day or two should be fine. Ammonia kits often measure small levels of ammonia in clean water, though.

Yeah it was actually more yellow and the blue lighter in person, I'll wait another day or two and see how the tests go.

[bertoni]

Okay, the ammonia probably is zero, then, but waiting a day or two should give more margin for error.

[themummra]

Ammonia from the flakes I added is coming down, nitrites about 0.

http://i.imgur.com/jjDqRQg.png

I want to get a CUC soon but I still have no algae. If I get just 1 hermit and 5 snails will they have enough to eat without any visible algae.

[themummra]

Ammonia *shakes fist*

http://i.imgur.com/11tXQQ4.png

[postaldave]

looking good. next stop Diatoms.

don't over buy CuC.

and remember. only bad things happen quickly in a reef tank.

[bertoni]

Most hermit crabs are fine with a bit of fish food to eat. I'd wait on the herbivorous snails until the algae shows up.

[themummra]

Ill grab 2 blue leg hermits then!

[themummra]

I have some raw scallops leftover. Can I cut them into tiny pieces and freeze them to feed to the crabs?

[themummra]

Also, Would it be ok for me to get 2 hermits and a small coral if my media basket wont be installed until sometime tomorrow or Saturday? I just have a Biocube Filter w/ carbon in it currently.

[themummra]

Life!

http://i.imgur.com/3ve09mL.png

Frogspawn after Bayer dipping
http://i.imgur.com/Km79dDR.jpg

30m Later
http://i.imgur.com/Z6roAhV.jpg

[bertoni]

I suspect the crab will be happy to eat the shrimp, and a few more animals like that, and a coral, probably will be fine. The live rock should be the primary filtration.

[themummra]

I suspect the crab will be happy to eat the shrimp, and a few more animals like that, and a coral, probably will be fine. The live rock should be the primary filtration.

The crabs LOVED the scallops! It was so cool. Once I got the pipette close to the crab it would smell it and start reaching for the food.

Picked up a couple pieces of acrylic yesterday as well. Im going to build my media basket today if I can find acrylic cement.

[themummra]

Got some acrylic + Weldon and made a ghetto media basket. Measurements are all uneven and I had to use a razor blade to do cuts. But it will last until I can laser cut some next week.

Water is still a little cloudy from installing the basket and an MJ1200. This pump is so much quieter!