Florida is trying to reduce sales of exotic pets

[Ohioreefer7]

Here is an article about the government of Florida trying to reduce the sales of exotic pets. At first it will be the lionfish but probably soon it will include other exotic fish.

http://news.wfsu.org/post/bill-sets-limits-nonnative-pet-sales

[saf1]

No surprise there. They have two of the biggest issues at the moment with lion fish and pythons. It is like double jeopardy for them, I do feel bad. On one hand you have mother nature with storms wrecking everything and animals getting lose then on the other hand stupid people releasing on their own accord.

At times I believe people in this hobby are their own worst enemies.

[Ohioreefer7]

No surprise there. They have two of the biggest issues at the moment with lion fish and pythons. It is like double jeopardy for them, I do feel bad. On one hand you have mother nature with storms wrecking everything and animals getting lose then on the other hand stupid people releasing on their own accord.

At times I believe people in this hobby are their own worst enemies.

I think they will outlaw damselfish sales in Florida too. After the fish Neopomacentrus cyanomos expands its range from the southern Gulf of Mexico into the rest of the Caribbean. In Asia it is very numerous so I imagine it will be numerous in the Caribbean as well. And if this fish can survive then aggressive damselfish like domino damselfish would be even worse. Here is a link to a video.

https://youtu.be/bKn_iQTl6Po

[Ron Reefman]

Talk about closing the barn door after the horse is gone!!!

Lion fish, pythons, iguanas, Nile monitor lizards (which get up to 6'), pythons and boa constrictors are all growing populations in South Florida. My wife and I caught a 4' python in our backyard a few years ago and we live in a very developed suburban neighborhood. Lion fish are everywhere. A friend had a 3-4' Nile monitor lizard laying in his dive way in front of the garage door!

[Cliving1]

Just turned on the local news, some guys caught a 15' python haha

[Ron Reefman]

Florida now has contests for hunting lion fish and one for exotic snakes.

[BrianD]

Was that escaped cobra ever caught in Ocala?

[CrayolaViolence]

The thing is, bans like this don't work. They never have and they never will. They only punish the responsible pet owner and prohibit them from enjoying an animal. And mark my words, they always start with the easy targets. Don't be surprised if in a few years they move on to your favorite dog breed (which some states already do this) or certain cats because of the coat pattern they display.
They need to start punishing the person for abandoning the animal rather than punishing the animal and the responsible people who own them.

[saf1]

The thing is, bans like this don't work. They never have and they never will. They only punish the responsible pet owner and prohibit them from enjoying an animal. And mark my words, they always start with the easy targets. Don't be surprised if in a few years they move on to your favorite dog breed (which some states already do this) or certain cats because of the coat pattern they display.
They need to start punishing the person for abandoning the animal rather than punishing the animal and the responsible people who own them.

How do you plan to punish mother nature(animal loss due to severe weather)?

Insurance takes care of dog breeds. I live in the biggest or 2nd biggest Nanny state (Ca) and home owners insurance 9 out of 10 times will ask if you are a dog owner, what breed. I always ask and declare because I own German Shepherds.

Cats - that is news to me although the Bengals are odd just has the wolf/malamute dog mixes. But see, I view that has a issue just because you can should you sort of deal. Much like keeping fish and corals. Just because you can, should you?

Wise @ss initial response aside about punishing Mother Nature it gets back to my original comment. Hobbyist are sometimes the enemy within. Go figure.

[ca1ore]

With global trade, the spread of exotics is nigh impossible to prevent - even with regulation. Wait long enough and exotics become indigenous :lol: I do wonder though how the pythons are surviving if they have eaten their way through 99% of the prior inhabitants of the everglades (maybe I haven't read closely enough).

[CrayolaViolence]

How do you plan to punish mother nature(animal loss due to severe weather)?


***Mother nature doesn't abandon pets. Of course I'm not talking about natural disasters that people have no control of. Don't be silly. I'm talking about people who dump the pet snake, lizard, fish, whatever "setting it free" when they get tired of it rather than doing the responsible thing and rehoming it or euthanizing it.




Insurance takes care of dog breeds. I live in the biggest or 2nd biggest Nanny state (Ca) and home owners insurance 9 out of 10 times will ask if you are a dog owner, what breed. I always ask and declare because I own German Shepherds.


****Not sure why you think this--other than you are a responsible person. Insurance is for responsible people Irresponsible people are the issue. Irresponsible people don't get insurance so they aren't influenced by the rules or stopped by legislation etc. The only people who pay for the irresponsibility of others are responsible owners.




Cats - that is news to me although the Bengals are odd just has the wolf/malamute dog mixes. But see, I view that has a issue just because you can should you sort of deal. Much like keeping fish and corals. Just because you can, should you?

***There are far more than just bengals, but the point is this. Who is going to decide who owns what? And where is the line drawn. Having been involved in dogs for over 20 years I've seen every excuse in the book when it comes to "protecting people" "protecting animals" etc, etc, etc, for reasons to push prohibiting ownership of (insert animal here). In the end the only people who suffer are the responsible persons. If you get right down to it there is no reason, no real logical reason for us to own any animals, fish, cats, or dogs, except for the sheer fact we can and we want to. So we need to be very careful when someone proposes to "ban" one animal or another. It only doesn't affect us because it isn't our turn yet.



Wise @ss initial response aside about punishing Mother Nature it gets back to my original comment. Hobbyist are sometimes the enemy within. Go figure.

***You are right. But I wouldn't call anyone who dumps or "sets free" pets, exotic or domestic, as hobbyists. They are irresponsible persons who should be punished.

All the nuances aside, the real enemy is ignorance. From all sides. Education is the first and foremost weapon we have. Dog clubs have been doing this for years through large all breed registries, and while it has been slow it has paid off. Breed rescue groups have made relinquishing certain breeds into the hands of knowledgable people easier and getting them rehomed easier. I wish that there was an equal group for exotic owners. While I know there are some exotic rescue groups, there is nothing national, or funded enough (that I've seen) to put on educational groups across the US. The really sad part is the lack of organization among hobbyists will probably be the downfall of most exotic hobbies like reef keeping. I'm not sure if they are still around or not, but when I was involved with dogs, PETLAW a yahoo group was a multi-hobbyist group comprised of all kinds of people from all walks of life from he professional to the pet owner of any and all kinds of animals, who worked together monitoring the laws how they would affect people, and how to protect their rights as owners.
If you are not a member, you should consider joining, reading, and realizing just how hard people fight every day to protect our rights to keep something as simple as a gold fish.

[Tripod1404]

There are also reports of yellow tangs (not juvenile Atlantic blue tangs) around Florida and Caribbean. I guess someone decided it would be cool to release those.

[saf1]

All states have similar issues with freshwater fish and fisherman. With no disrespect, some people just can't follow the laws, or know they even exist, and release fish they like to eat...

Doesn't make it right and didn't mean to derail the thread. Humans just find unique and dumb ways to ruin things.

[Tripod1404]

All states have similar issues with freshwater fish and fisherman. With no disrespect, some people just can't follow the laws, or know they even exist, and release fish they like to eat...

Doesn't make it right and didn't mean to derail the thread. Humans just find unique and dumb ways to ruin things.

Yeah, there is not a single freshwater pond around me that doesn't have goldfish in it.

[pfan151]

Yeah, there is not a single freshwater pond around me that doesn't have goldfish in it.

Down here we have lakes with giant clown knifefish, Midas cichlids and snakeheads and others. Not gonna lie, they are pretty fun to catch but of course they aren't great for the lakes. The state released peacock bass though so they don't really seem to care all that much about keeping things natural.

[Ohioreefer7]

There are also reports of yellow tangs (not juvenile Atlantic blue tangs) around Florida and Caribbean. I guess someone decided it would be cool to release those.

I would think that yellow tangs wouldn't be too problematic compared to Indopacific damselfish. The Indopacific damselfish are really different than the Caribbean ones because they form insanely huge swarms while the Caribbean ones are sort of solitary. The worst ones would be the Dascyllus species particularly the domino damsels. When I went diving in Asia they were everywhere being obnoxious and chasing other fish around just like they do in aquariums. The blue green chromis would also be really bad due to the huge numbers of fish they have in their schools. They would definitely change the Caribbean a lot. The Neopomacentrus cyanomos that are in the Southern Gulf of Mexico will also be bad but probably not as bad as the other damselfish above.

[saf1]

The way this went down probably (regarding damsel fish) is that somebody probably released the damsels to feed the lionfish they released years earlier...

[Ohioreefer7]

The way this went down probably (regarding damsel fish) is that somebody probably released the damsels to feed the lionfish they released years earlier...

I don't think they know how they got there. I read that Mexico doesn't have too much of a marine aquarium business and that Neopomacentrus cyanomos is a rare species to have for an aquarium. They think they could have come from an oil platform that might have been moved from the Indian Ocean and then transported through the Suez Canal and then brought to Mexico. They think maybe the fish might have stayed on the platform as it was being transported.

[saf1]

They think maybe the fish might have stayed on the platform as it was being transported.

Sounds like a Disney movie in the making!

[anbosu]

The pond behind my house in Florida always had multiple monster plecos in it, and I once caught a tilapia. The problem in Florida is that basically anything that gets released will survive. If you release a python in the midwest, it might live for a while, but winter will eventually get it. In Florida there is always a nearby swamp.

[fishguy2501]

The way this went down probably (regarding damsel fish) is that somebody probably released the damsels to feed the lionfish they released years earlier...

If i am not wrong thats how it worked out with the peacock bass and cichlids down in south florida. they released the bass to control the cichlid and carp population while also adding a new game fish.

[anbosu]

If i am not wrong thats how it worked out with the peacock bass and cichlids down in south florida. they released the bass to control the cichlid and carp population while also adding a new game fish.

I wonder if that has had a negative impact on the Florida largemouth populations?

[pfan151]

I wonder if that has had a negative impact on the Florida largemouth populations?

I fish in lakes that still have plenty of both so it would appear they coexist fairly well. The lake I fish mostly is called Lake Ida. The largemouths and peacocks are ridiculously easy to catch there. They will take dead shiners off the bottom. My theory is that maybe they have to be less picky about food since there is increased competition. But I could be totally wrong on that one.

[Darthv247]

there have also been several Nile Crocodiles found in the everglades. pretty sure those were always banned. The burmese python problem has gotten out of control here though. The even eat american alligators. We hunt them by the thousands every year, they just breed too fast to keep up with. Unlike most large constrictors, burmese pythons have a voracious apetite. they can eat almost daily whereas an anaconda eats every 6 months or so in the wild.
The problem with bans is they make the problem worse. The cost of the animals goes up and demand goes up. just makes them more appealing to breed and sell. Look at the piranha. since it has been banned in most states, many many illegal markets have surfaced for their purchase.

It is a major issue but ussually our attempts to curtail it make it worse. i sure hope the Nile croc population doesnt pick up down here. If they breed with the American crocodile we will have a super predator in our hands.

[Ohioreefer7]

I think the people who have salt water aquariums are more mature than people who own cichlids or reptiles. People who own cichlids and reptiles tend to behave like 15 year old kids when they think it would be cool to release their pets into the wild. Salt water aquarists may occasionally put a fish into the ocean but rarely enough to have a breeding population. Plus it is lucky they don't put really invasive stuff like blue clove polyps or marine invertebrates into the ocean because they really would become bad news. I think most people who have marine aquariums have grown up past that stage.

[fishguy2501]

I think the people who have salt water aquariums are more mature than people who own cichlids or reptiles. People who own cichlids and reptiles tend to behave like 15 year old kids when they think it would be cool to release their pets into the wild. Salt water aquarists may occasionally put a fish into the ocean but rarely enough to have a breeding population. Plus it is lucky they don't put really invasive stuff like blue clove polyps or marine invertebrates into the ocean because they really would become bad news. I think most people who have marine aquariums have grown up past that stage.

The true reptile and cichlid hobbyists aren't the problem. It is the uneducated people who buy a python from Petsmart and then when it gets to big they think that releasing it is the best option because they will be "free". And for cichlids, it could be people who aren't as experienced in the hobby that go to a big box store and then buy a fish that the employee tells them is not aggressive and doesn't get too large, but it turns out that red devil or Oscar got huge and ate everything else in the tank. They see a canal by their house and dump them in there cause they think the fish will be "free" and will have a better life. Also a lot of animals that have escaped came from facilities and fish farms that got damaged or flooded during storms. That's how some of the cichlid populations got out when a farm flooded into a nearby canal.