How much vodka do you dose as a maintenance dose?

[reefer1970]

I have a 125g mixed reef and have been vodka dosing for about 6 weeks. My nitrates are still high at 50-75 on a salifert test. My phosphates were super high at 2 on a Hanna checker but are now down to 0.6. I'm not sure if I can attribute the lower phosphates to the vodka since I've been running gfo also. My question would is... I'm at 8 ml of vodka per day with 125 gallons system water. Does this seem like I'm still on the low end and should I continue to increase dose?


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[bertoni]

As long as the tank is okay, and there are no bacterial slimes showing up, I think increasing the dose would be fine. I might try adding 2 ml extra per day for a few days, at least. Any signs of slime buildups or new pests would be a sign to back off.

[nashorn]

As long as the tank is okay, and there are no bacterial slimes showing up, I think increasing the dose would be fine. I might try adding 2 ml extra per day for a few days, at least. Any signs of slime buildups or new pests would be a sign to back off.

+1
I been dosing for years. Algae on the front glass turn up the dose. Start to see white bacterial slime turn it down.
I have about 100 gal total vol and been dosing more then twice your amount.
But that works for me so not a guild for others.
The bacterial slime will consume all the oxygen in the tank if you loose circulation so that's something to be careful of.

[Shotter]

You work out your own carbon dosing:
Slightly increase the dosage incrementally by 0.5- 1ml every 3 days and monitor. Ensure the skimmer is increasing in skimmate. You should start see a change in No3. Once the levels come down, then lower the dosage to see where YOUR maintenance level is at. If nutrients start to increase, add more vodka slowly again. Always makee tiny changes as starved bacteria will die quick and too much vodka without bacteria eat can cause other issues or best case, a water born bacteria bloom.

You state the nitrates are between 50-75, have they dropped at all? My advice would be; deal with the No3 first in the traditional way of water changes then attempt to maintain the lower level. Vodka will not mask an issue, and a tank with that level of No3 says to me either a poor water change schedule or a bio load that is too high for the tank. Either way, get the No3 lower then try and use vodka dosing. Once you're on an even keel, vodka can then be used to assist with higher bioload.
Try dosing a bacteria with it such as MB7 or in the UK Aquaforest products whilst doing.

Be careful to watch out for the inbalance of Po4 to No3 - I think the concern is more when the phosphate is higher than the No3 but im not 100% sure on that one.

[Piper27]

About 400 gallons total, 50 ml of vodka and 50 ml of vinegar a day. I would give it time. Building up the bacteria in the tank to a level where it isn't causing problems takes a good amount of time and decreasing nutrients will be easier once you have a steady maintanence dose going. You will be able to reduce nutrients easier then.

[Shotter]

Sorry to thread jack, its along these lines and didn't want a new thread, I'm intrigued in what the guys who has posted so far have to say.
I have tried on two occasions and got cyano pretty bad so tapered off and stopped to deal with the issue. I figured it wasn't meant to be in my tank.

My No3 is maintained below 5 through my maintenance schedule and whatever is in the tank doing its job. Phosphate sits at 0.03 - 0.07 generally as I do run a small bag of rowaphos always and have a reasonable feeding habit.

Could this be putting too much vodka in initially? To provide an example, I started at 0.8 ml per day (over two deliveries) and only increased to 3.2ml before i started seeing issues (circa 2 weeks in both times) Also tried splitting it with vinegar 2nd time around - same result.

Would you say, its not for me?
Do i need to add it even slower?
Should i use sugar or 100% vinegar?

[bertoni]

I'd try again with vinegar, but ramp up more slowly. There's no guarantee that carbon dosing will work, but it's worth a try. You didn't mention any losses from the cyanobacteria, so I'm assuming everything made it through okay. If not, I might recommend some other approach. Sugar seems to cause more problems, on average, so I'd stay away from it, but we have limited knowledge about carbon dosing.

[Shotter]

Losing stuff is a tough question. Ive only just moved into adding some SPS and ive struggled to see the polyp extension/growth but for me, it could have been a number of factors on my learning curve. I have lost some SPS entirely but its tough to ascertain as to why 100%.

The tank is primarily sofites and LPS which seemed to be fine with the Cyano.

I may try again with vinegar once i pluck up the courage. Long term, can carbon dosing be considered a method for the control of cyano, in balancing the good bacteria over the bad?

[bertoni]

Yes, carbon dosing seems to work well enough long term. I haven't seen very many bad results for a while.This dosing schedule is very conservative, but it seems to be reasonably safe:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/index.php

[hkgar]

For vinegar dosing just multiply the amounts that are in the article Bertoni posted by 8.

I have a pretty good bio load with my 17 fish and I am dosing a 70/30 vinegar/vodka mix at 38 ml/day. That works out to the equivalent of about 144 ML vinegar. If I am doing my math right?

I also run GFO and have an ATS and last test was .01 PO4 and 2 NO3

[bertoni]

I get about 118 ml of vinegar for the equivalent:

.7 * 38 + 8 * (.3 * 38) = 117.8

[hkgar]

You are right. I have it in an excel sheet but hadn't changed the sheets parameters to 70/30. I had set them at 60/40 awhile back to see what that would look like. :mad2: (that's as close to an embarrassed emoji as I could find).

[reefer1970]

Looks like my post has gotten way off track. Thanks to you that have chimed in with an answer. I am trying to get a sense of how much vodka everyone is dosing as a maintenance dose and has it been successful long term?


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[Shotter]

As mentioned, if carbon dosing successfully works for you (which if didn't me) once you see the levels dropping you start lowering the carbon source. If he rate of nutrient drop stops, slightly increase it again. Once you hit the desired nutrient level (zero for both generally), you lower the rate once more and observe to see whether the levels go up and so on. You find your own matenance level for your tank. So many variables come into play one tanks maintenance will not be the same as another.
Remember to make incremental changes to carbon source.

[reefer1970]

I'm now dosing 15 ml/ day and not seeing any drop in nitrates after 2 months. Does anyone think I should up the dose or stop? How much is too much on a 125g?


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[bertoni]

Have you tested for nitrite or gotten a second opinion on the nitrate test kit? Nitrite will confuse nitrate test kits. If the level is real, you could increase the dose as long as the tank is doing well enough. I don't think we have any idea how much vinegar is "too much". There seem to be a lot of variables involved.

[tmz]

I have a 125g mixed reef and have been vodka dosing for about 6 weeks. My nitrates are still high at 50-75 on a salifert test. My phosphates were super high at 2 on a Hanna checker but are now down to 0.6. I'm not sure if I can attribute the lower phosphates to the vodka since I've been running gfo also. My question would is... I'm at 8 ml of vodka per day with 125 gallons system water. Does this seem like I'm still on the low end and should I continue to increase dose?


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I dose 36ml of 80 proof vodka and 60 ml of 5% acetic vinegar ( equivalent in carbon content to about 8 ml of 80 proof vodka ) dialy for a 700 gallon system. Been doing that for about 9 years. PO4 hovers around 0.02ppm to 0.04 ppm with no gfo or other removers with N03 less than 1pmm ;sometimes requiring a bit of sodium nitrate dosing to remain detectable. I amped up to these doses over a period of two months or so as I recall.

The maintenance dose needed will vary by system. Variables include: surface area, starting nutrient levels, nutrient import levels from food fish load etc , other forms of nutrient export in play like skimming ,et alia.

Cyano is often a start up issue with either vodka or vinegar but does wane over time. I haven't seen any significant cyano in many years in the system.

Nitrates can take months to fall from high initial levels at startup. The heterotrophic bacteria don't seem to use much of it in favor of taking N directly from ammonia ;thus cutting off nitrate production leaving much of any existing NO3 to slower aneraobic processes. IME, it's easier to get nitrates down to say 5ppm or less before starting.