PDA

View Full Version : Humidity Management


jlfalin
04/30/2017, 05:58 PM
So I have a small issue. I am currently building a fish room that will contain ~800gallon of heated saltwater. After researching for months I thought I finally had an adequate plan for dehumidifying the air in the home. My original plan was to run a bathroom vent on a humidistat to deal with a bulk of the humidity. I would then use the same 2 dehumidifiers that I currently have running to finish off the humidity with a goal of ~50%. After going to the store to buy the vent for the outside of the house this afternoon my wife said I absolutely cannot put that out of the side of our house. I explained the problem with humidity and mold but she doesn't seem to care. Having said that I need to find an alternative method to help with humidity. Options that won't work are vent fans and split AC units.

I have thought of at least 1 idea to deal with the humidity but need some help at this time.

Option 1:
Get a 115 pint per day dehumidifier and drain to sink. Will pull 8A likely 24/7 but I can deal with that I guess.

Option 2:
Get a portable air conditioner. Let the water drain to the same sink and then pump the heated air to the rest of the basement. The basement runs 63-65 degrees year round so this will help make it a little more comfortable down there. The 14,000BTU unit I am considering pulls 12.5A. Not as happy about this option but this would allow me to deal with humidity as well as move the heat elsewhere in the house (home AC in the summer and will help with heat in the winter).

Anyone used either of the above or other method with success. Need options ASAP. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Again, I know the vent is the best option and superior / much more energy efficient but as of right now is NOT an option.

Thanks :wave:

JamesHolt
04/30/2017, 06:13 PM
Vent fan hooked to a foundation vent, if you can reach one.. She will never know what it is...

imfsub12
04/30/2017, 06:25 PM
We got a sweet fan for my fish room have a peak .

This can go anywhere. In the rafters or a bulkhead.

Then you just pipe it to the outside of the house with a dryer vent.

The name of it is nutone inline fan. They are all plastic not metal. Out contractor uses them for showers very high humidity.

I'm going to have a humidystat on mine as well. We couldn't fit it in the bulkhead and had to put it here.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170501/e976d59524c8a952046ca82e2dede056.jpg

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

jlfalin
04/30/2017, 06:32 PM
I have a full basement so no foundation vents around the house. I wish I did, that would be easy. Maybe I can use the low profile of those to convince my wife that it can blend in with the house.

I should also add that the fish room is 180 ft^2 with a volume of 1600ft^3

imfsub12
04/30/2017, 06:35 PM
I have a full basement so no foundation vents around the house. I wish I did, that would be easy. Maybe I can use the low profile of those to convince my wife that it can blend in with the house.

I should also add that the fish room is 180 ft^2 with a volume of 1600ft^3
This is what it looks like on my outside of my house.

We core drilled the foundation.

What us a full basement with no foundation?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170501/bf5803f799518d0d23b6af3f8f91b87d.jpg

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

imfsub12
04/30/2017, 06:37 PM
http://www.nutone.ca/product-category.asp?CategoryID=200021

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

jlfalin
04/30/2017, 06:39 PM
Ok. Just to highlight. A vent fan is not an option. Looking for other ideas. I already know this is the best but likely won't be able to drill for one due to wife preference. Need a plan B to deal with humidity in case I can't talk her in to it. I was originally going to do a 6" vent. Will try to talk her into a 4".

Please don't recommend a vent fan please ��

jlfalin
04/30/2017, 06:41 PM
I meant we don't have a craw space where that kind of vent would be used. We have a poured footer and then basement walls so we have a foundation.

imfsub12
04/30/2017, 07:00 PM
I meant we don't have a craw space where that kind of vent would be used. We have a poured footer and then basement walls so we have a foundation.
I have a poured basement too.

Footer then 9 feet of concrete walls then rafters.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

dave.m
04/30/2017, 07:06 PM
There really isn't much of a mechanical option. ACs and dehumidifiers are all intended for normal levels of humidity. What this much open water will generate in the way of humidity is far above the norm. You would have to put in some major equipment and pay for the cost of running them full time.

A man has got to do what a man has got to do, and that includes putting in a proper venting fan from the tank, the sump, the fish room, and any other open body of water associated with your display directly to the outdoors.

Dave.M

jlfalin
04/30/2017, 07:14 PM
Imfsub12- the kind of vent cover you pictured is exactly what I wanted to use. Well the one I showed my wife was the metal version. After talking with her she would like for me to stick with what we have for bathroom vents. Those are 3" venting. I was originally going to go with 6" and a 400+ cfm fan. I am guessing that with a 3" output I will be limited to around the 100cfm range or lower. I guess some air turnover is better than none???

jlfalin
04/30/2017, 07:22 PM
Dave. I'm not saying a vent fan is not by far a superior way of dealing with the humidity. Both in power consumption and overall effectiveness but it is not the only way to accomplish adequate humidity control. I understand that the devices would run more than intended which would shorten life and pull much more power but they could work. I would also have to oversized the equipment to accomplish the goal. Basically I fell I could easily stop the water from the air and move to heat to a chilly portion of the house fairly easily with the portable ac. This of course would come at a premium. I would have to pay for a unit that pulls 12.5A when running and figured it would run from 16-24h per day. Again no data to back up this would work and would be interested to see if it would work well.

At this point I am going to install the largest vent the wife will be happy with and go from there using whatever supplemental means I need to accomplish my goal.

Doomerville
05/01/2017, 10:51 AM
I know you said not to discuss vent options but here are my 2 cents. As a wife myself, who likes certain aesthetics, maybe you are asking the wrong question. Is the issue the vent fan or the location you want to put it at? It may be more work but maybe running it to a different side of the house, say a side yard, so when you are entertaining outside it isn't something all your guests are staring at. Or maybe your wife is more of a visual person, try painting the vent to match the house as it will blend in more and seem less obvious. Or maybe explain to her the amount of money you will save doing this will afford you guys an additional weekend away to a nice place every year, along with shopping! Of course, then you must follow through with this. [emoji3]


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

tkeracer619
05/02/2017, 10:31 PM
Have you contacted a professional in your area? Where do you live?

Vent fans work great when you don't live in a humid area but if it's constantly 80% humidity outside by pulling 400cfm through a 1600cf room you will never hit 50% humidity no matter how large of a dehumidifier you run.

I live in Denver so I am very lucky regarding this. I was able to use a whole house HRV which has kept the inside of the home, the basement, and the fish room under 50%... even when it was 5deg and blizzarding.

salty joe
05/05/2017, 10:17 AM
Is covering the tank an option?

karimwassef
05/05/2017, 11:54 AM
Any venting is better than none. You can oversize the cfm by going to a high pressure DC fan. This will allow you to tune for sound and volume flow. Also, you can go to larger duct wherever she can't veto. Changing duct size isn't great but you're better off meeting her criteria where necessary and then oversize (fan, duct) where you have jurisdiction.

Good luck! I hate having to blow money but she is a partner in it... I like the idea of showing the savings but that's a logical answer that has a longer payback, so may not work with everyone.

jlfalin
05/06/2017, 01:42 PM
Finally found a solution she is okay with. Found a 6" version of the vents we have on our house and she gave me the thumbs up. So I will be using a 6" vent with ~1 foot of ductwork between the fan and the outside. Hopefully I can push a good deal of air through this and help dump the humidity. Thanks for all the comments. I will show pictures of the final product once compete. :beer:

cesarjimen
05/07/2017, 06:31 AM
Wouldn't venting a high volume of air to the outside create negative pressure in the house, forcing in air from the outside through gaps in doors, windows, etc. to balance the pressure delta and have a significant negative impact on the A/C efficiency of the home?

I'm going through a similar challenge in thinking how to best manage humidity on a 600 gal system that I'm setting up.

Is there a way to estimate how much humidity a home A/C system can handle? I've only ever relied on the A/C system of my home in the past (up to 350gal) and haven't had issues. I live in Houston so humidity is very high in the base case.

karimwassef
05/07/2017, 11:10 AM
The negative pressure is good. It will suck cool dry air from other parts of the house to substitute the damn warm air that's being expelled.

JamesHolt
05/07/2017, 11:51 AM
This is what I have been looking at for my future pond.. A touch over $1000
http://www.supplyhouse.com/Aprilaire-1830-Model-1830-Dehumidifier-70-Pint-Per-Day?gclid=Cj0KEQjwi7vIBRDpo9W8y7Ct6ZcBEiQA1CwV2MJvOdcPPcRhFdumVBVHPA7qGNiqIo0SMjlMxFmNjnsaAtnQ8P8HAQ

karimwassef
05/07/2017, 04:21 PM
I have this in my tank closed area for 4 yrs. just ran a hose out to the garden.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00AU7GZXE/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1494195611&sr=8-2&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=Frigidaire+dehumidifier+70&dpPl=1&dpID=51DoGDnEwvL&ref=plSrch

salty joe
05/07/2017, 05:15 PM
Wouldn't venting a high volume of air to the outside create negative pressure in the house, forcing in air from the outside through gaps in doors, windows, etc. to balance the pressure delta and have a significant negative impact on the A/C efficiency of the home?

.

There's no getting around that. Just part of the cost to run an exhaust fan, unless the fishroom has a dedicated fresh air vent from the outside.

karimwassef
05/07/2017, 05:34 PM
There's no getting around that. Just part of the cost to run an exhaust fan, unless the fishroom has a dedicated fresh air vent from the outside.

Which I personally recommend. IME fresh air is key to healthy growth.

tkeracer619
05/07/2017, 05:50 PM
The house does need to remain positive pressure, especially in the mechanical room. The fish room certainly can be used as an exhaust point since it will be the highest humidity.

A house under negative pressure doesn't vent properly and can bring fumes into living spaces from water heaters and furnaces. Also, if you are pulling air in through walls and crawl spaces you can cause mold issues in your home. It is much better to be positive pressure so any air being pushed through those areas has been dehumidified. Resolving humidity in a home is different based on your location so consulting a local specialist is always a good idea.

cesarjimen
05/07/2017, 07:26 PM
Ok, this is helpful.

So if there's no way around avoiding "outside" air from replacing the warm humid air that's being exhausted from the fish room creating negative pressure in the home, it is important , however, which outside air it is. Is it then better to have an inlet to ensure it's fresh air, as opposed to air coming in from the walls, garage and attic that could be harmful, as tkeracer619 points out?

The dilemma for someone like me who lives in Houston is that the "fresh" air coming in from the outside will be hot and humid air most of the year, essentially defeating the purpose of exhausting warm and humid air in the first place... wouldn't it be better then to install a dehumidifier like James proposed? Or just monitor the home humidity and see whether the existing A/C can handle it?

tkeracer619
05/07/2017, 08:00 PM
Ok, this is helpful.

So if there's no way around avoiding "outside" air from replacing the warm humid air that's being exhausted from the fish room creating negative pressure in the home, it is important , however, which outside air it is. Is it then better to have an inlet to ensure it's fresh air, as opposed to air coming in from the walls, garage and attic that could be harmful, as tkeracer619 points out?

The dilemma for someone like me who lives in Houston is that the "fresh" air coming in from the outside will be hot and humid air most of the year, essentially defeating the purpose of exhausting warm and humid air in the first place... wouldn't it be better then to install a dehumidifier like James proposed? Or just monitor the home humidity and see whether the existing A/C can handle it?

Yup. Depends on where you live as to how you should vent the house. I'm not sure if it is like this everywhere but in Colorado new construction requires two very large vents in the mechanical room with a non louvered door effectively isolating the rest of the house from furnace and water heater fumes. If pulling air out of the house you should have a vent allowing air in.

When I installed my HRV it has dual fans, one for intake and one for exhaust. It made it super easy to vent the house and keep positive pressure. They also have variable speed duct fans.

I wasn't so concerned with summer venting in my situation because we use a swamp cooler for cooling, I could have just used duct fans and it would have been fine. I was concerned about sub zero winter air getting sucked in through the walls, condensing the warm moist air in the house, and causing mold in the walls.

If your a.c. doesn't keep up installing a dedicated dehumidifier is a good option. Just sucking as much air through the house isn't a good idea when it's 90deg and 90% humidity outside. Sometimes no extra ventying but higher dehumidification is the best option.

karimwassef
05/07/2017, 09:58 PM
Your little fan will not likely create enough of a pressure difference to matter.

Fresh air is important though.

I live in Dallas. My solution is to push the air directly into a double penductor injector. The humid air is basically bubbled into the tank... so it doesn't matter.

jlfalin
06/20/2017, 01:19 PM
So I installed my vent over the weekend. I still need to finish the wall around the vent.

I had a few questions for those of you that have vents:
1. Did you insulate the vent pipe close to where it exits the house. I am concerned that the cold air outside will cool the pipe and I will get condensation behind the wall around where it leaves the house. Drilled directly out of the wall in the fish room so the humid air will be able to get behind and touch the pipe.
2. Do you ever get condensation in the pipe since thre is a lot of humid air going through it. I know this may be the case in the winter.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Mishri
06/20/2017, 04:52 PM
Think of it like a dryer vent.. that also pushes out a lot of warm humid air when it's running. you'll set it up the same way.

reefzone123
06/25/2017, 08:12 PM
venting the air sounds like a great option. you could add the dehumidifier to boot. you'll be set either way.