Controllable Return Pumps... how?

[d2mini]

The DC controllable pumps are nice in that you can easily and precisely change the amount of flow with dealing with a gate or ball valve.
But many of them have features that allow for flow that changes throughout the day or slows down considerably for feeding time... similar to controllable power heads.
But outside of a closed loop setup, how does this work?
I know that with my tank, if the flow changes by even just a percent or two, this changes the level in my overflow and will either create noise as it drops too low and water level in my sump will rise and overflow my skimmer, or the water level in the tank will start to rise if flow increases and empty the return chamber of my sump and start pulling air.

Am I missing something???
Outside of a closed loop, I'm not seeing the point.

[mcgyvr]

You aren't missing anything..
Feed mode is useful but changing speeds is useless unless closed loop..

But you do have common sense :) so you are ahead of many and aren't sucked in by shiny new toys...

[BM3]

I went to DC pumps for several reasons. One being they use less wattage, the second being slow startup... No longer​ scares all the fish when the pump kicks back on and the feed buttons allow for no return pump for 10 minutes so that I have time to feed the coral. My skimmer turns off via the float valve when the water line rises.

[gcarroll]

I went to DC pumps for several reasons. One being they use less wattageAre you sure? How did you come to that conclusion?

the second being slow startup... No longer​ scares all the fish when the pump kicks back on and the feed buttons allow for no return pump for 10 minutes so that I have time to feed the coral. My skimmer turns off via the float valve when the water line rises.Really no reason to turn off the return pump when you feed. If you are feeding so much that this is necessary, then you are probably feeding way too much at any one time.

[Ron Reefman]

Really no reason to turn off the return pump when you feed. If you are feeding so much that this is necessary, then you are probably feeding way too much at any one time.

I like to turn my return pump and wavemakers off when I feed. I have anemones and I like to see that they get some food occasionally. So I can deliver food to them with a turkey baster when the pumps are off. Also very fine food can settle on the corals and they get a chance to grab some food and hold onto it. Don't get me wrong, it's not a big deal, but I think it helps... especially because I don't over feed!

I also like speed control so if I change something off my manifold, like adding a reactor, I can bump the flow up so the other lines off the manifold still get the same flow. And I take my chiller off line for several months in the winter. It just makes life easier.

[d2mini]

You aren't missing anything..
Feed mode is useful but changing speeds is useless unless closed loop..

But you do have common sense :) so you are ahead of many and aren't sucked in by shiny new toys...

Ok, thanks for confirming. LOL

To the other replies, this is not a DC vs AC thread. Like i said in my OP, I understand the advantages of easily adjusting flow, or turning OFF for feed mode (although my controller would take care of this with any pump). Was just curious about that one feature of random flow changes. :)

[scuzy]

I guest turning down flow at night for calm is a cool feature for some.


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[gcarroll]

I like to turn my return pump and wavemakers off when I feed. I have anemones and I like to see that they get some food occasionally. So I can deliver food to them with a turkey baster when the pumps are off. Also very fine food can settle on the corals and they get a chance to grab some food and hold onto it. Don't get me wrong, it's not a big deal, but I think it helps... especially because I don't over feed!

I also like speed control so if I change something off my manifold, like adding a reactor, I can bump the flow up so the other lines off the manifold still get the same flow. And I take my chiller off line for several months in the winter. It just makes life easier.We are talking return pump, not in tank flow pumps. I'm pretty sure those animals have adapted to catch food on their own anyway.

However taking the chiller of line is absolutely reasonable. Although you can valve down any AC pump and also see a reduction in current draw.

[scuzy]

I guess another plus to DC is you get a lot less voltage in water if anything like pump failure 24v vs 110v? Maybe I'm wrong.


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[ksed]

In 30 years of running high voltage pumps not one has leaked voltage in the water.
You should be running GFI regardless of voltage. So either way you should be safe.

I guess another plus to DC is you get a lot less voltage in water if anything like pump failure 24v vs 110v? Maybe I'm wrong.


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[scuzy]

In 30 years of running high voltage pumps not one has leaked voltage in the water.

You should be running GFI regardless of voltage. So either way you should be safe.



Never said you shouldn't run gfci. Just saying extra advantage of DC.


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[BM3]

I got the wattage by looking on the pumps... Sicce is 48w compared to the DC which is 24w.
I'd rather have my coral food stay in the DT longer then sending it through the entire system and be filtered out by other means.

[gcarroll]

I got the wattage by looking on the pumps... Sicce is 48w compared to the DC which is 24w.

I'd rather have my coral food stay in the DT longer then sending it through the entire system and be filtered out by other means.the box rating is max and does not take into account head pressure which reduces wattage in an AC pump.

Like I said, if you are feeding enough to matter, you are overfeeding.

[sirreal63]

I guess another plus to DC is you get a lot less voltage in water if anything like pump failure 24v vs 110v? Maybe I'm wrong.


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Voltage isn't the problem, amperage is.

Dennis, I consider them unneeded features that help justify a higher price. Just because we can't, doesn't mean we should in some cases.

[ksed]

I see DC as a disadvantage. More to break down eg power supply , and controllers.

Never said you shouldn't run gfci. Just saying extra advantage of DC.


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[Orcus Varuna]

The DC controllable pumps are nice in that you can easily and precisely change the amount of flow with dealing with a gate or ball valve.

But many of them have features that allow for flow that changes throughout the day or slows down considerably for feeding time... similar to controllable power heads.

But outside of a closed loop setup, how does this work?

I know that with my tank, if the flow changes by even just a percent or two, this changes the level in my overflow and will either create noise as it drops too low and water level in my sump will rise and overflow my skimmer, or the water level in the tank will start to rise if flow increases and empty the return chamber of my sump and start pulling air.



Am I missing something???

Outside of a closed loop, I'm not seeing the point.



I love dc returns for a few reasons even on non closed loop systems. 1 I can tune return flow however I want. An example is I run a system manifold with reactors off of it and I can alter flow to the reactors without having to divert excess water back to the sump. I can just add or subtract the return flow on the controller to get the exact amount of water I want. 2 is soft start, switching from a mag 12 to a jebao 8000 I no longer shoot water across my room when the return starts back up haha. 3 power consumption especially if you drastically over size the return. I run my jebao 8000 at 37%. This runs two reactors and the return for 20 watts of power. The mag 12 I started with consumed an average of 110 watts. This is not an insignificant amount. My electricity in Florida is not cheap thus this power consumption reduction means well over $100 a year in tangible savings. Even if the pump lasted only one year it paid for it self.


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[Ron Reefman]

We are talking return pump, not in tank flow pumps. I'm pretty sure those animals have adapted to catch food on their own anyway.

However taking the chiller of line is absolutely reasonable. Although you can valve down any AC pump and also see a reduction in current draw.

I realize that this is about return pumps and not wavemakers. What I was getting at is that I turn off ALL the pumps while I feed.

And yes, corals do feed and in the wild food is flowing around all the time. In my tank (and probably yours) most of the food is taken out of the system in a rather short time frame as it is consumed, caught in filter socks, pulled out by a skimmer and any other sort of filtration. So I think shutting down the flow is helpful/useful to the corals. So we can agree to disagree.

[cincyjim]

I'm using one for the battery backup feature.

[gcarroll]

I realize that this is about return pumps and not wavemakers. What I was getting at is that I turn off ALL the pumps while I feed.

And yes, corals do feed and in the wild food is flowing around all the time. In my tank (and probably yours) most of the food is taken out of the system in a rather short time frame as it is consumed, caught in filter socks, pulled out by a skimmer and any other sort of filtration. So I think shutting down the flow is helpful/useful to the corals. So we can agree to disagree.I get where you are coming from. I am just saying it is not necessary to turn the return off. I can find no instance where turnig the flow off completely is actually helpful or useful to the corals.

Can you? Yes!
Do you need to? Nope.
Should you? Well, that depends on the reefer.

[d2mini]

I love dc returns for a few reasons even on non closed loop systems. 1 I can tune return flow however I want. An example is I run a system manifold with reactors off of it and I can alter flow to the reactors without having to divert excess water back to the sump. I can just add or subtract the return flow on the controller to get the exact amount of water I want. 2 is soft start, switching from a mag 12 to a jebao 8000 I no longer shoot water across my room when the return starts back up haha. 3 power consumption especially if you drastically over size the return. I run my jebao 8000 at 37%. This runs two reactors and the return for 20 watts of power. The mag 12 I started with consumed an average of 110 watts. This is not an insignificant amount. My electricity in Florida is not cheap thus this power consumption reduction means well over $100 a year in tangible savings. Even if the pump lasted only one year it paid for it self.


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I agree with most of that, but my question was about the varying flow in regard to the standard overflow.

[Orcus Varuna]

I agree with most of that, but my question was about the varying flow in regard to the standard overflow.



Your not wrong that you can't change the rate at which gravity drains water through a pipe of a given diameter. My point was just showing the utility of a D.C. Pump on a standard gravity drain system. Having the ability to alter flow through say a manifold to provide extra flow to a reactor without changing your pump is awesome.


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[Potatohead]

Gee whiz who cares if someone turns off their return pump to feed, doesn't affect you in any way.

I agree with OP though, I have never really considered DC (especially for return pump) because of the same reason of overflow levels, and three failure points instead of one.

[d2mini]

I run two dc pumps currently. Very familiar with them and understand the perceived advantages.
Vectra L1 for my return, and a Waveline for my skimmer.

I was just curious about that one little feature, and my thoughts were confirmed back in post #2. ;)

[FullBoreReefer]

I don't change my flow intermittently, but while cleaning my display I'll crank the flow up as high as possible to run more water through my filter socks that I use during cleaning. Other than that mine sits at 50%.

[gcarroll]

I don't change my flow intermittently, but while cleaning my display I'll crank the flow up as high as possible to run more water through my filter socks that I use during cleaning. Other than that mine sits at 50%.IMO, this might be the best reasoning I have hear for a controllable pump.

[jda]

You are not missing anything. Marketing to the uninformed to get a higher price... These "features" as as useful to me as controlling your lights from the couch on your android or seeing a thunderstorm.

Still none of these reason is any different than having a ball valve or a return loop.

[FullBoreReefer]

You are not missing anything. Marketing to the uninformed to get a higher price...

Problem with this statement is in my case. My controllable pump was cheaper than the mag 18 I used to run. The soft start on my new pump creates less air and surging upon reatart. Also running at 50% allows me to crank the flow during cleaning and save myself time. Adjustability allows me to choose flow rates through my sump that I prefer over a set amount or using a valve.