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JonezNReef
05/04/2017, 01:23 PM
So I have been wanting to give a shot at breeding cardinals for a little while and couldn't ever find any already paired up. So I decided that I would try to pair them up myself. I thought about getting 4 or 5 and seeing if 2 would hit it off but didn't feel like spending the money with a chance I would end up with only 1 in the end.

So I researched all I could and found out how to tell the difference between genders. So after a very odd expression from the owner of my LFS, he and I went around tank to tank with him catching the cardinals and me trying to determine the gender of them. We had a few odd stares from other customers but after looking at about 10 or so fish I was confident all but 1 were males. So I bought it and a one of the males and went home hoping for the best.

I acclimated them and put them into my QT to observe. The first few days they were on opposite sides of the tank in there own pipe. But after the second TTM they were checking each other out and before I knew it swimming together and even displaying what looked like courtship with the presumed female vibrating on either side of the presumed male. I have had them for over a month now and they are still together in the DT swimming around together with no signs of aggression. Im not saying it is a complete success yet but only time will tell. Once they are larger and I know they are bonded and breeding I will move them to there own tank. But for now I am happy and hoping for the best.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170504/82e1dcb1a9dd54c0925eddb46f76dfc9.jpg

JonezNReef
06/02/2017, 07:45 AM
So I now know I have a male and female that have paired up. Last night about an hour before lights went off the female was showing courtship to the male. She would go from one side of him to the other and vibrate while he opened and and puffed out his mouth. I tried to catch it on camera but every time I would raise up the camera they would stop so I just let them be and watched from a distance. Hopefully they will continue and maybe I will see the male carrying eggs soon.

JonezNReef
06/02/2017, 07:57 PM
So today the males mouth looks enlarged and the female is right close by. Also the male wouldn't eat when I fed the tank. Every once in a while she will nudge at the male or swim really close. Not sure what is the normal when it comes to how a pair interacts.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170603/e8a2d298a9e117db92ecc1a42ffb3eea.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170603/64d78ab1fe1af2819a66bd70b3db2668.jpg

Mr. Eel
06/03/2017, 07:10 AM
I think he may be carrying the eggs because they dont eat while they have the eggs in their mouths, and it possibly makes their mouth look bigger.

JonezNReef
06/03/2017, 07:23 AM
I think he may be carrying the eggs because they dont eat while they have the eggs in their mouths, and it possibly makes their mouth look bigger.

Thats what I am hoping for. :beer:
For now its wait and see, but if this is the case then I will really want to fatten him up while he practice carriers a few times. Maybe I can get some babies to raise in a few months or so.
Mostly I am excited because this will confirm I was able to find a male and female and get them to pair.

carrots
06/03/2017, 07:37 PM
Well JonezNReef are you going to tell us the difference between male and females? We are waiting. :)

JonezNReef
06/03/2017, 08:54 PM
Sorry I didn't add that with the first post.
Between the pelvic fins and anal fine the fish have vents. 2 vents is a male and 1 vent is a female. The owner of the fish store caught the fish then we took a flash light and made our best judgment on that info. It wasn't until recently in the DT that i could see a difference in jaw line and second dorsal fin. At the fish store they all looked the same.

Mr. Eel
06/03/2017, 09:50 PM
Honestly theres a good chance you just got lucky with the male and female.

Good luck breeding though and once you get babies (if you do) I think you should move em to a different tank but im not sure. This is because their parents may out compete them for food or eat em.

JonezNReef
06/05/2017, 08:58 AM
Honestly theres a good chance you just got lucky with the male and female.
You are 100% correct, it may have just been luck. But either way after going around and looking at 10 plus fish and walking away with a pair is still good to me.

Good luck breeding though and once you get babies (if you do) I think you should move em to a different tank but im not sure. This is because their parents may out compete them for food or eat em.

Hopefully I will get some babie but that is always a BIG IF. If and when the male gets used to carrying eggs and babies, I have frag tanks and other tanks (all are fishless) I intend to house the babies in. But with this being there first batch Im guessing it will take 3 or 4 for the male to get used to it all.
Right now its all patiently wait and see. I already hatch baby brine shimp every 3 days or so to feed my corals so atleast I have them on hand if I do get some babies. As it stands the male is still holding eggs and isn't eating but he swims around more that what I read most males holding do. He also gets excited when I feed the tank like he wants to eat but never goes for it so we will see how long this batch lasts. I plan on really over feeding him when this batch is done to see if it can help. I will keep posting as it goes.

JonezNReef
06/05/2017, 09:04 AM
Also here is a good article on sexing cardinals by checking vents
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/how-to-determine-the-sex-of-banggai-cardinalfish

JonezNReef
06/19/2017, 02:20 PM
Well the male has been holding eggs for about 17 days now. He has held them longer than I thought he would to be honest. I say that because of the luck most people have described with there cardinals and the male eating there first few batches of eggs. So I will be keeping a close eye on him since we are closing in on 20 days. I plan on trying to put him in a breeder box around the 22nd if I can.

One thing I thought was interesting that I have observed is that during feeding time the male swims through the food without eating then dashes back to his hiding place in the Candy Cane Corals. Then he yawns a few times and swims back through the food and back to his hiding place, repeating this until all the foods gone. Makes me wonder if he is catching food and then rotating the eggs to get eat. Not sure if thats the case but makes me wonder.

JonezNReef
07/06/2017, 11:02 AM
So I was unable to catch the male and decided to just let him be. Last night he finally spit out one of the fry or atleast thats all I saw. So im not sure if this was the first or second batch of eggs because if it was the first then that would mean he held them for around 34 days. But either way I currently have one lone fry.
For the past week or so my wife and I have been looking and watching hoping the male would start spitting out the fry. And last night just before lights off my wife happened to look up near the overflow and says to me "is that a baby fish" as it goes down the drain to the bottom 180. I rushed into the fish room and shut the system down and grabbed a flash light and started the search. I was unable to find the fry but my wife with here eagle eye vision found it in a matter of minutes and caught it in a cup and transferred it to the breeder box.
I put a small fake plant in the box with it and then added some baby brine and the fry started eating right away. So as of right now I only have one fry but thats more than I thought I was going to get out of the first batch. Now I get to try and raise atleast one and maybe I will be able to locate others today after work.
I have considered trying to catch the male just after he starts carrying one of these times and getting him to spit out the eggs and putting them in a tumbler like you would with cichlids. Not sure yet but for now I will just let the pair do there thing and if I am able to get any fry that will be cool but if not then no big deal.
But for now the journey continues and we shall see how it goes with the fry that I do have and if I can keep it alive.
The female is already showing courtship again and her abdomen is dark so hopefully I can get the male fed before they do there thing.

farfromsea
07/06/2017, 11:04 AM
Exciting! Hopefully he makes it


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JonezNReef
07/06/2017, 11:09 AM
Where's Waldo?
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170706/aeda0879288e52b6ba1126d7626e133b.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170706/e0d2f743aafc941a07baba0c155744b7.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170706/bc12eab3a90d7b41d5ca8050e94aa271.jpg

farfromsea
07/06/2017, 11:16 AM
Wow he looks pretty big!


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JonezNReef
07/07/2017, 01:01 PM
So sadly only one fry was found. But on another note here is a video of the Male Spitting out a baby and sucking it back in.
https://youtu.be/qSI5VAfSWjk


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