View Full Version : frustrated beyond belief
Some explain to me why the apex system is so expensive yet so user UNfriendly. I am so fed up with this stupid product I am about to run it over with the truck just for the satisfaction of breaking it. At this point I am ready to purchase a PH controller and Temp controller and a bunch of individual timers. I for the life of me cannot understand the mindset of the people you have designing code and interface. It's pure nonsense.
Rant over. I doubt any of you will be of any help but here goes nothing.
I had to replace my router a few months ago. As expected the Apex would no longer connect to fusion. Surprise surpsie. Every single other product in my house seamlessly connected to the new router with zero steps to take. Smart TV, all of our phones, computers, ect. Even the printer. But not the apex. Fine.
Firmware is out of date anyway. So I follow your steps on the website word for word to update the firmware. Timeout timeout timeout timeout unable to unlock unable to unlock unable to unlock. over and over and ****ing over all morning. Yes. I did everything the troubleshooting guide tells you to. Restart EVERYTHING, OVER AND OVER. Yes it's hard wired. I'm not trying to update via wifi. Yes wifi is turned off when attempting. So...I try to jump on your website for support....nope cant do that anymore. You have to install a program on the computer to allow computer sharing...fine.
Surprise surprise that doesnt work either. My computer is a fairly new (less than 2 years old Mac), so i'm not using some dinosaur. Wont do anything, just freezes up every time i open it.
What next? i try to get onto the forum on your website. Create an account. Surprise surprise. That wont allow me to connect either. Nothing else in the household is giving us any problems. Only your pages and products.
Does anyone have any ideas as to what to do at this point. Because I'm about ready to go Office Space on this stupid Apex controller.
Charge a grand for a controller, maybe invest a LITTLE time in making it just a hair more user friendly. Just a little. Perhaps you shouldnt need college courses in networking admin to be able to update the **** firmware. Lord knows every single other web ready product in the world we all purchase for our homes seem to just work.
TheSnoMonster
05/20/2017, 09:38 AM
Nice.. you know the return policy? Just got mine and now reconsidering to go with something cheaper.. not to mention that every apex ready products and additions are about $200 more than anything on the market
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vhuang168
05/20/2017, 09:53 AM
The computer sharing is for when a tech needs to see what's going on in the computer. It's not going to do anything by itself.
An account on the forum will not allow you to connect to your Apex if that's what you are trying to do. If you can create an account, you can access the forum. You might have to wait for your account to be approved. I can't remember since it's been a while since I set mine up.
Do you know the IP address the Apex is on?
If you do, you can log into the local interface and do the Fusion token through that, which is what I think you had to do the 1st time.
What kind of router? Sometimes routers from cable/phone companies lock out certain ports that prevent Apex from talking to the Fusion servers.
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I'll add...I've actually had my apex for 4 years. It's the black label classic model. I imagine it is well past it's warranty and return date eligibility. Sorry for the vent guys. Perhaps it may read a little hotter than is appropriate but the information is completely valid. I'm all ears and open for help, but you've created an interface that even makes help incredibly difficult to get. I hate resorting to this. I was simply going to vent to one of your tech support guys one on one, hopefully have him fix my problem, apologize for being hard on them and thank him for the help and hopefully have a working apex again. But push comes to shove and if I can't even use your own help process on your page this was the next resort. I'll happily edit my post if someone can help me get this fixed. I'll admit my own stupidity and apologize if it's something simple I'm missing.
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Preble
05/20/2017, 09:56 AM
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170520/ca57130eb8e788034feb425564feed71.jpg
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The computer sharing is for when a tech needs to see what's going on in the computer. It's not going to do anything by itself.
An account on the forum will not allow you to connect to your Apex if that's what you are trying to do. If you can create an account, you can access the forum. You might have to wait for your account to be approved. I can't remember since it's been a while since I set mine up.
Do you know the IP address the Apex is on?
If you do, you can log into the local interface and do the Fusion token through that, which is what I think you had to do the 1st time.
What kind of router? Sometimes routers from cable/phone companies lock out certain ports that prevent Apex from talking to the Fusion servers.
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The computer sharing program is unresponsive, I open it and it does nothing. The instructions say it will offer me a username and password to give to the tech, it offered nothing of the sort. Just blank.
Router is a netgear from bestbuy. just an updated version of the previous one
vhuang168
05/20/2017, 10:15 AM
Did you open a ticket with Neptune? If not, the sharing program is useless. If the tech feels that it would help solve your issue, he/she will ask you to start that.
What is the IP of the Apex? If you don't know, (and I'm assuming it's a classic) use the display and navigate to System, then Net Setup, then IP address.
Type the numbers you get into your browser and you should see a log in screen.
Assuming you haven't changed anything, it will be Admin and 1234.
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Nothing opens when I type in the IP address.
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vhuang168
05/20/2017, 10:53 AM
What is the IP address you see on the display?
If the Apex is on the same network as your computer it should pop up.
Check to see if there are lights where the Ethernet cable is plugged into the Apex.
Do you know how to access your router menu and see attached devices?
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Don't know how to access router menu honestly. IP address is 10.0.0.10. Orange and green lights are on as well as green light on top of apex base unit
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Jlentz
05/20/2017, 11:34 AM
Did you setup your new router to run on the same subnet as your old one?
What is the IP address, subnet mask, and gateway on your computer?
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I have no idea what a subnet mask is or a gateway. I've never heard those terms
I unplugged the old router. Plugged the new one in. And it just worked. I didn't have to do anything else with it. And every other device in the home just worked (after putting in the new password obviously). The apex is the only thing that is causing problems
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Jlentz
05/20/2017, 11:43 AM
Open your network preferences panel on your Mac. Click on the wifi icon on the top of your screen and select open network preferences at the bottom of the wifi list.
If you don't know what those things are you probably need didn't setup your new router properly.
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vhuang168
05/20/2017, 11:43 AM
That IP looks off.
192.168.1.1 should take you to your router.
Log in should be
Admin
password
Unless you changed it, password is password. At lease it should be.
Look for attached devices and see if you can find the Apex.
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Kids are napping now in the room where the computer and router are so I'll have to report back later on. Can't mess with it further right now
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Jlentz
05/20/2017, 11:50 AM
Most likely everything in your house is setup to run dhcp. Iirc, apex needs a static ip. You need to fin out the proper subnet the router is using and set the IP address manually in the apex.
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Jlentz
05/20/2017, 11:52 AM
For example. If your computer is on 192.168.1.x set the apex to 192.1.1.111.
Subnet mask 255.255.255.0. Gateway 192.168.1.1
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Jlentz
05/20/2017, 11:53 AM
And change all your default passwords.
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vhuang168
05/20/2017, 12:55 PM
No need for static. Set Apex to run dhcp.
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Beyond router connection issues. I'm still confused by two things. The new firmware update isn't reflected on the apex flash utility. Still has the previous firmware on it. And why won't it connect to the apex DIRECTLY from the computer
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vhuang168
05/20/2017, 01:30 PM
Both are linked by router connection issues. If for some reason the Apex is not connecting to the router, you won't see it locally and so the flash utility will not as well and won't update.
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But I plugged the apex directly to the computer also.
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Jlentz
05/20/2017, 03:49 PM
You still need to set up the computer and apex to be in the same subnet. If you are plugging In Directly you'll need to setup the proper address and subnet to be able to directly talk to it.
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Jlentz
05/20/2017, 03:51 PM
If you can setup the apex to do dhcp that's the easiest way to fix its connection to the internet. Directly plugging it into your Mac will still probably be an issue though unless you set static addresses into both the apex and the Mac.
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That's all still a bit over my head and difficult to figure out while two toddlers are tugging on your shorts and playing jump rope with the Ethernet cables. I'll try to dig out my old pc laptop and see if that plays nicer than the mac, if that doesn't work. I'll just be without fusion until the apex dies and it'll be the last Neptune product I buy. If I'm going to have to spend $800-1000 on a new controller I don't want to have to take a course in networking and IT just to figure out how to install it. I don't remember it being this much of a problem when I first got it. It was fairly straight forward without any issues.
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vhuang168
05/20/2017, 04:56 PM
So you are trying to connect the Apex to your Mac directly? When you said hardwired, I was expecting the Apex to be hardwired to your router.
Please explain how your Apex is wired so we can help you set it up.
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spifftempo
05/20/2017, 05:00 PM
I'm reading all this back and fourth here and it seems we are missing a couple of key setup questions.
1. Is this Apex hardwired or wireless to your network?
If it is wireless to your network, have you configured that wireless bridge with the new WiFi network, if not, then start there.
2. Do you have DCHP enabled on your Apex? DHCP is what most devices have enabled by default, but it seems alot of people used static IP addresses with their Apex. This is likely a carry over before Fusion existed and you needed to do port forwarding for your Apex. DHCP is kind of like a device asking the network for all the details to connect to the network. If its disabled, then your device must be manually configured and you have to know what your doing. So, make sure DHCP is enabled. To do this, go to your Apex display screen: Go to System> Netsetup> DCHP> then restart the Apex from the Netsetup menu.
3. Don't worry about the firmware update. IMHO, that will always be an engineer's first suggestion. But since your Apex was working before the router change on whatever version of firmware would allow you to connect to Apex Fusion. So updating the firmware, while its always a good idea, isn't going to get you connected to Apex Fusion.
4. If you continue to have trouble, then contact Neptune Systems support. They stay busy, but they will make time for you after the weekend and have you up and running in no time.
Jlentz
05/20/2017, 05:18 PM
You are blaming the apex when you should be blaming yourself for not setting up your new netgear router properly.
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You are blaming the apex when you should be blaming yourself for not setting up your new netgear router properly.
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That may be the case, but everything else works as it did before and I followed the router installation instructions word for word. Just because I'm not familiar with those terms doesn't mean if I have a second I won't be able to find them.
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I'm reading all this back and fourth here and it seems we are missing a couple of key setup questions.
1. Is this Apex hardwired or wireless to your network?
If it is wireless to your network, have you configured that wireless bridge with the new WiFi network, if not, then start there.
2. Do you have DCHP enabled on your Apex? DHCP is what most devices have enabled by default, but it seems alot of people used static IP addresses with their Apex. This is likely a carry over before Fusion existed and you needed to do port forwarding for your Apex. DHCP is kind of like a device asking the network for all the details to connect to the network. If its disabled, then your device must be manually configured and you have to know what your doing. So, make sure DHCP is enabled. To do this, go to your Apex display screen: Go to System> Netsetup> DCHP> then restart the Apex from the Netsetup menu.
3. Don't worry about the firmware update. IMHO, that will always be an engineer's first suggestion. But since your Apex was working before the router change on whatever version of firmware would allow you to connect to Apex Fusion. So updating the firmware, while its always a good idea, isn't going to get you connected to Apex Fusion.
4. If you continue to have trouble, then contact Neptune Systems support. They stay busy, but they will make time for you after the weekend and have you up and running in no time.
1. Have been using a wireless bridge. Linksys I believe. When attempting to update the firmware though I followed neptunes instructions and restarted the apex after wiring it directly to the router and restarting the base unit. DHCP has always been ON.
2. DHCP is and always has been ON. I have no idea why on the third restart it loaded a 10.0.0.10 IP address. It previously had a 192.168.something or other on the first two failed attempts
3. Gotcha. Yes I'd love to be able to use fusion again. Programming on the display is a pain
4. I opened a ticket. Still waiting to hear back.
I appreciate you guys taking the time to try and help. I did this previously on a PC. Maybe it's just not playing nice with a mac (which if that's the case it's still frustrating. It's not 1998 anymore).
May have mentioned. But I'll echo. So I downloaded the latest firmware. When I open it I get an error message. I thought it was supposed to open an apexflash utility to update? Mine just gives me an error message. The flash utility I have I believe is from the 4.32 firmware I attempted a long time ago (and had to do it from a pc for it to work). I'm guessing the old flash utility isn't going to pull the new firmware I downloaded?
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Jlentz
05/20/2017, 06:44 PM
How old is the Mac? I've had issues with updating in my old crackbook with snow leopard. El Capitan has worked well though. If it's older it could be a problem. Mine wouldn't run the firmware updater program.
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It's an I7 IMAC purchased new in 2014. Running Lion if I'm not mistaken. Whatever was before El Capitan. I never did that update as I heard it was terrible
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jonmos75
05/20/2017, 08:41 PM
It's an I7 IMAC purchased new in 2014. Running Lion if I'm not mistaken. Whatever was before El Capitan. I never did that update as I heard it was terrible
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Per the instruction on Neptune Community Form these are the iOS that are supported
https://forum.neptunesystems.com/showthread.php?18959-Apex-Classic-Firmware-version-4-52_5A17-is-now-available
CODE3EMT
05/20/2017, 09:57 PM
Some of the best and most beautiful reef tanks I've seen use nothing more than a Power Strip............ I own an Apex myself and I can honestly say IMO it's more bling than practical. I really like the WXM module, but other than that I'd say I'm using 10% out of a 100% of the controllers actual capability.
Per the instruction on Neptune Community Form these are the iOS that are supported
https://forum.neptunesystems.com/showthread.php?18959-Apex-Classic-Firmware-version-4-52_5A17-is-now-available
There it is. New firmware is only compatible with El Capitan or later. And the apex flash will not load the new firmware. Answers the problem entirely. Why couldn't they have put that information in plain English on the download page?
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spifftempo
05/21/2017, 04:47 PM
2. DHCP is and always has been ON. I have no idea why on the third restart it loaded a 10.0.0.10 IP address. It previously had a 192.168.something or other on the first two failed attempts
That is important. After it loaded the 10.0.0.10 address could you connect to Apex Fusion? Could you access http://10.0.0.10 from your web-browser? If so, then when you connect it back up to your LinkSys bridge you should still be able to access it. If you cannot access it connected to your router, then post up your network settings page from your Mac here. If you cannot access it just on your LinkSys, then then LinkSys is not setup appropriately.
Again, I would leave the whole firmware part out of everything right now. It really isn't what is keeping you from connecting to Apex Fusion- its your network.
Jlentz
05/21/2017, 04:56 PM
Why couldn't they have put that information in plain English on the download page?
Becuase Neptune is terrible at making sense.
I'd not worry about the firmware until the networking issue is sorted out. That's the main problem at this point.
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wmo168
05/23/2017, 09:50 AM
Nice.. you know the return policy? Just got mine and now reconsidering to go with something cheaper.. not to mention that every apex ready products and additions are about $200 more than anything on the market
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If yours forsale I want to buy it from you and try? I am thinking of upgrading my DA to Apex...
edsbeaker
05/23/2017, 02:55 PM
The new firmware is also compatible with Yosemite, which came out between Lion and El Capitan. You may have updated Yosemite from Lion. so that may not be the issue.
There it is. New firmware is only compatible with El Capitan or later. And the apex flash will not load the new firmware. Answers the problem entirely. Why couldn't they have put that information in plain English on the download page?
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