Calcium reactor and kalkwasser

[scuzy]

Since running my calcium reactor my ph been low around 7.8-7.94 and was wondering if I should top of with kalkwasser to get ph in the 8.1-8.3 range? I have tried piping in outside air to my skimmer but that didn't budge.

Was thinking of using two apex pmup from my ato reservoir. One pump will pump just regular ro water in if ph > 8.3 and the other pmup will pump water through kalkwasser reactor if ph < 8.3 would this work?




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[tkeracer619]

I wouldn't chase the PH with a variable kalk system, just run it all the time. I tried that many moons ago and it ended up being rather pointless.

Use a dual float switch (close to the same level) and a slow peristaltic pump. I aim for 25-50% runtime on my ATO pump when using kalk. This way if both float switches fail for some odd reason you have time to realize what is going on. Way to many horror stories out there when using a centrifugal style pump or reef controller to time the pump.

I use the standard masterflex pumps with a set RPM. Usually between 6 and 18rpm depending on tank size. You can usually get them pretty cheap with a head on fleabay.

If you want to use a reactor, go with the kind that has a stirrer and not a pump to circulate the kalk. I really like the aquamedic, it's simple and has lasted me 10 years even though it was used when I got it.

[scuzy]

I wouldn't chase the PH with a variable kalk system, just run it all the time. I tried that many moons ago and it ended up being rather pointless.

Use a dual float switch (close to the same level) and a slow peristaltic pump. I aim for 25-50% runtime on my ATO pump when using kalk. This way if both float switches fail for some odd reason you have time to realize what is going on. Way to many horror stories out there when using a centrifugal style pump or reef controller to time the pump.

I use the standard masterflex pumps with a set RPM. Usually between 6 and 18rpm depending on tank size. You can usually get them pretty cheap with a head on fleabay.

If you want to use a reactor, go with the kind that has a stirrer and not a pump to circulate the kalk. I really like the aquamedic, it's simple and has lasted me 10 years even though it was used when I got it.



Yeah I'm going to use a kalkwasser reactor that's has a stirrer. Will pump in a small amount of kalkwasser top off at a time. What about using a apex DoS? One does pump for kalkwasser reactor one for regular ro. Depending on ph it will turn on the right DoS head.


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[tkeracer619]

I don't have any experience with them but assume it will go through an Apex. I wouldn't do that unless there is a float switch between the apex and the pump. You want to be able to cut power to the pump in case something goes wrong.

PM sent.

[scuzy]

Yeah the apex will cut power


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[tkeracer619]

Yeah the apex will cut power


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If the apex fails you need a float switch between it and the pump. Personally I avoid running kalkwasser on any reef controller and just use the reef controller as another way to cut power to the system.

If you already have the ATO system setup through a dos and the apex has dual floats maybe there is a way to make it foolproof.

[scuzy]

You mean like a floating ro shutoff?

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[tkeracer619]

Not a float valve, a float switch (well a pair of them). Preferably a set that has a good track record against binding. autotopoff.com sells some good ones.

[scuzy]

Ah I was getting confused cause I already have double float switch for apex ato.


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[scuzy]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170523/ce9d9521768f88db2d85d0d30dea8218.png

Was thinking of doing this

Pmup1 programing

When low pump kalkwasser in if ph 8.3

This way I can have ato pump either water or kalk in depending on ph

And I will have a fail-safe float to kill the power to both pumps if level is too high


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[jda]

I would let the tank have PH in that range before I trusted a hobby grade PH probe to be accurate. PH like that is not an issue for anything. Failed kalk top off system crashes are abundant. CO2 in the ambient air is most likely your PH problem and getting fresh air into the home is a safer and easier way than dosing kalk like this.

[scuzy]

I would let the tank have PH in that range before I trusted a hobby grade PH probe to be accurate. PH like that is not an issue for anything. Failed kalk top off system crashes are abundant. CO2 in the ambient air is most likely your PH problem and getting fresh air into the home is a safer and easier way than dosing kalk like this.



My skimmer is drawing fresh air from a tube on the other side of the wall. The air should be pretty fresh.


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[solitude127]

Have you tried a secondary chamber to help bring up the ph of the effluent?

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[scuzy]

My vertex has a second chamber and I have the larger of the second chamber with remag media and the smaller with more reborn media. Maybe I should swap the two and have more reborn media in it?


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[solitude127]

My vertex has a second chamber and I have the larger of the second chamber with remag media and the smaller with more reborn media. Maybe I should swap the two and have more reborn media in it?


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Oh ok. Out of curiosity, what was your pH before the CaRx?

[jda]

You can tune your reactor where no excess CO2 is heading out the reactor and into the tank. If you have reverse flow, one way to do this is to extend the top tube down an inch or two - this will allow the excess CO2 to build up in the top of the reactor and you can dial the CO2 back a bit if it builds up.

Even though CaRx effluent is low in PH, if it is not full of CO2, it will quickly stabilize in your tank with no, or very minimal, effect. If it is full of CO2, then it can lower the tank PH a bit.

[scuzy]

Oh ok. Out of curiosity, what was your pH before the CaRx?



8.2 -8.4


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[scuzy]

You can tune your reactor where no excess CO2 is heading out the reactor and into the tank. If you have reverse flow, one way to do this is to extend the top tube down an inch or two - this will allow the excess CO2 to build up in the top of the reactor and you can dial the CO2 back a bit if it builds up.

Even though CaRx effluent is low in PH, if it is not full of CO2, it will quickly stabilize in your tank with no, or very minimal, effect. If it is full of CO2, then it can lower the tank PH a bit.



Hmm you reminded me something I swapped the two lines
Cause h should be the exit and I is recirculation but I was getting excess co2 trapped. Thanked guys this will help a lot.

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[Mcjudge]

Before doing any of this test and make sure your levels are correct to start with. Chasing PH for the sake of chasing PH does not yield results.

I run both with an apex. I run the kalk with a BRS dosing pump. The key was putting a huge fan on my sump to encourage evaporation. (and keeping temp down making chiller run less often) Then there is a guessing game as far as how long to run the ATO pump at multiple times during the day. (Its seasonal if your sump is exposed to outside air) So if your sump starts to fill up you have too much time running for your ATO. (2 mins per hour 2.2 ml per hour) 175G total water volume.

The sweet spot for me looks like this:

Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Time 00:00 to 00:02 Then ON
If Time 01:00 to 01:02 Then ON
If Time 02:00 to 02:02 Then ON
ect... through 23-

If you set your calc reactor based on ph within the reactor you will find the tank will tell you when to add kalk to the reactor. If you see during the day hours that the calcium reactor is not turning on your C02, because your ph is too low, (Important to set a ph level for your overall tank if its lower than 7.8 don't turn on C02) you need to add kalk to the reactor. I add 1 tbls once a week generally.(again for 175G with SPS & LPS) If you can't hit your PH you think you should be hitting check your Mg. Still can't hit it add soda ash.

C02 outlet look like this on apex: (pHx6 = ph inside reactor) (PH = ph in main tank)

Fallback OFF
If pHx6 > 6.70 Then ON
If pHx6 < 6.50 Then OFF
If pH < 7.95 Then OFF

Again this is for my tank, but it might help with yours.
GL:hmm5:

[Mcjudge]

I also have a second media reactor for my calcium reactor and I drop the effluent into a refuge with macros growing.

[scuzy]

I figure how to add the Kali reactor to my system now

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170525/2f6fd03bcf6e61ce36342f8679dec37e.jpg

Will have the apex solenoid as extra failsafe to shut off when ph in tank drifts greater than 8.3 this way I won't ever have over dosing cause the logic will close the solenoid and turn off the pump socket as well.


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[All__talk]

I don't have a Ca Reactor but I do run a dual pump ATO (dual floats with APEX), water goes through the kalk reactor below 8.3 and switches to straight RODI above. I dont chase PH, but in the past I ran kalk for all top up water and my day time high PH would sometimes go above 8.4. This set up also helps mitigate the day to night swing, which runs around 8.1 to 8.3 in my tank.

Gary

[reefling]

Most calcium reactor driven reefs are 7.8 to 8.0 pH. Steady pH matters more than a certain number.

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[scuzy]

I don't have a Ca Reactor but I do run a dual pump ATO (dual floats with APEX), water goes through the kalk reactor below 8.3 and switches to straight RODI above. I dont chase PH, but in the past I ran kalk for all top up water and my day time high PH would sometimes go above 8.4. This set up also helps mitigate the day to night swing, which runs around 8.1 to 8.3 in my tank.



Gary



This is what I'm going to do with my kalkwasser Rx add-on to compliment my carx. pH < 8.3 pump through kalk reactor then if ph> 8.3 use the ro pump. I'll add in a solenoid to the apex fmm to be double failsafe in case the plug sticks on at least I have two ways to shut it down. I'm also using triple float/optical sensor to prevent over top off.



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[guc32]

Here is how I run my ATO through a kalk reactor.

Runs for max 2min every 10min. And only runs at night.

Fallback OFF
OSC 000:00/001:30/008:30 Then ON
If SumpLo OPEN Then OFF
If SumpHi OPEN Then OFF
If Output Kalk_Ready = OFF Then OFF
If pH > 8.50 Then OFF
If SkimCu OPEN Then OFF
If Time 11:59 to 20:59 Then OFF
Defer 000:30 Then OFF

[jda]

What is your plan for if the Apex fails on? I know that it is uncommon, but it does happen. Do you limit the water the the pump can pump into the tank mechanically?

[scuzy]

I mean I guess if that's the case I'll need a float like the apex ato.

If it stays on there's more for me to worry about.
That's why there is dual logic one for socket power off and one for off with solenoid.

Problem with the float shutoff I don't have room in the sump chambers it's used for marine pure blocks. I guess I can take over if them offline.


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[guc32]

I hear people say if apex gets stuck on. Does that mean apex says turn off and it doesnt turn off? So what if there is another turn off signal, will it turn off?

Or does stuck on means the switch itself doesnt work anymore?


Yes limit the amount of water in your ATO tank for a failsafe.

[jda]

...just think about it. I am sure that you have seen the posts with Apex sticking on sometime when it fails or needs a software update or something. There was a whole run of them lately with heaters sticking on, but this is easy since you can get a heater with an internal thermostat. It is still probably under 1/10th of a percent, but it still sucks for those folks and might be worth a few minutes of thought.

Kalk is dangerous, which you know... and all electronics have either 1). failed or 2). will fail, so better to have them fail off.

[jda]

The Apex has an outlet on... fails... and the outlet stays on. Even the ones that are "supposed" to fail off sometimes stay on. This is not a huge deal with lights or even a heater (if dual controlled).

This is a hobby grade piece of equipment after all. Overall, I would say that it is a darn impressive piece of hardware for the price point, but it is hardly lab or industrial grade.

[scuzy]

The odds of solenoid and socket fail should be a lot lower



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[laverda]

Scuzy
What are your Alk, Mag and Ca levels at? You need to know where you stand before deciding what to do next. It is very easy to get you ALK & Ca to high running both reactors. Your Ca reactor should keep your PH a bit higher if running properly. Your Alk levels are more important then the PH specifically.
If your ALK & Ca are both low I would do like one of the other posters suggested and add small amounts of kalk hourly at night starting an hour or 2 after lights out.

[scuzy]

My alk is at 8.2, calc 420, mag 1300


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[laverda]

Sounds like adding Kalk will be to much unless you reduce the output of your Ca reactor.

[mikeatjac]

Actually with new Apex you can get an alarm if the socket fails. However I have never heard of a socket stuck open.

I believe there is a correlation between a higher ph and growth thus I use a kalk reactor with a two part doser.

A former CR user.

[scuzy]

Reason I want to get my ph a little higher. Heard great things about a steady ph of 8.3. and carx and kalk could go hand in hand.


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