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View Full Version : Urgent Fast Fish Killer!!!!!


TheJinxs
05/29/2017, 11:36 AM
Our fish are dropping fast. 3 days ago we lost our White Spotted Hawaii puffer after he had shown symptoms of ich for less than 48 hours. This morning we lost our Flame Fin tomini tang even though she wasn't showing any symptoms. She was completely normal. Our clowns are covered in ich white spots. I'm about to freshwater dip them and set up a QT but we're down 2 fish. From 6 to 4. Please help. I uploaded a photo. Is this some kind of lethal fish killing ich?

Dealseer
05/29/2017, 11:53 AM
I disagree about this being ich based upon what you've said. Get them in copper immediately if you've previously read up on how to do so.

TheJinxs
05/29/2017, 12:09 PM
I think it's velvet now. I got a close clear look at my midnight clown and I can see a film that's splotchy. Ich doesn't kill this fast. Our tang didn't have any symptoms of ich but apparently she had velvet symptoms. Since I've never dealt with it before I didn't know until just now. She was swimming into the flow of the powerheaders and hiding behind the live rock last night.

JustinM
05/29/2017, 04:29 PM
It helps immensely to give them a rally bath or formilin bath before being placed into copper if we're talking about velvet. Also there isn't much time to slowly ramp up the copper/cupramine hence CP being a little more preferred but copper is much easier to get ahold of. Act fast with velvet. It sounds like velvet to me.

TheJinxs
05/29/2017, 04:45 PM
It helps immensely to give them a rally bath or formilin bath before being placed into copper if we're talking about velvet. Also there isn't much time to slowly ramp up the copper/cupramine hence CP being a little more preferred but copper is much easier to get ahold of. Act fast with velvet. It sounds like velvet to me.

Help me please. I just lost my true percula while I went 3 counties over to buy rally, cupramine, and furan2. How do I do a bath with the rally? I don't think my remaining 3 fish have the time for me to build up copper levels.

JustinM
05/29/2017, 05:07 PM
Match temp and salinity in a 5 gallon bucket. The rally dosage is 3/4 teaspoon per gallon so 3.75ml per gallon. It is pretty mild so if you're off on the dosage a bit, don't fret. Throw an airstone in with it and do for about 75 min. If the fish shows any signs of distress, pull it out.

As for the cupramine, I didn't go straight to therapeutic but .2 that night and finished it the next day to .35 then ramped it up to .45. I did this with a lineatus wrasse, $200 fish and one that is sensitive to copper too. She handled it very well and is still alive and kicking.

I used metroplex as my antibiotic mixed with kanaplex. Furan 2 is a nice broad spectrum antibiotic so that should work well. I believe the dosage for that is one packet per ten gallons.

Best of luck, you will pull through.

JustinM
05/29/2017, 05:08 PM
The rally will give them a lot of relief.

JustinM
05/29/2017, 05:12 PM
Did you already freshwater dip?

Do this before the rally bath, if you haven't. The fw dip will clear the mucous and parasites from the gills. The rally is a antiseptic that will help heal.

TheJinxs
05/29/2017, 05:14 PM
Match temp and salinity in a 5 gallon bucket. The rally dosage is 3/4 teaspoon per gallon so 3.75ml per gallon. It is pretty mild so if you're off on the dosage a bit, don't fret. Throw an airstone in with it and do for about 75 min. If the fish shows any signs of distress, pull it out.

As for the cupramine, I didn't go straight to therapeutic but .2 that night and finished it the next day to .35 then ramped it up to .45. I did this with a lineatus wrasse, $200 fish and one that is sensitive to copper too. She handled it very well and is still alive and kicking.

I used metroplex as my antibiotic mixed with kanaplex. Furan 2 is a nice broad spectrum antibiotic so that should work well. I believe the dosage for that is one packet per ten gallons.

Best of luck, you will pull through.

Thank you so much for the help. I've been so worried and I spent all of my money on this. I did buy a new airstone for this purpose as well. I know everyone on this forum must be tired of this but I've never encountered velvet and the only thing we have added are some hermits and 2 snails. Can those be carriers of velvet? Our tank has been up airstone running for 2 years. All of our fish have been in the tank for at least a year. I'm losing my babies.

TheJinxs
05/29/2017, 05:14 PM
Can furan-2 be used in conjunction with Rally?

JustinM
05/29/2017, 05:18 PM
No, do not add anything to the rally.

JustinM
05/29/2017, 05:20 PM
Anything wet can carry velvet. The velvet cycle is so fast and the dinoflagellates can be infective for 14 days because they use photosynthesis to survive.

Dealseer
05/29/2017, 05:21 PM
I had thought that chelated copper was safer. Cupramine is ionic copper.

JustinM
05/29/2017, 05:23 PM
It is safer. You need a different test kit though. I believe the API copper kit will work with chelated and the seachem copper kit for cupramine.

JustinM
05/29/2017, 05:25 PM
Did you fw dip? It is imperative to fw dip before anything.

TheJinxs
05/30/2017, 11:30 AM
Did you fw dip? It is imperative to fw dip before anything.

I did freshwater did. And I have Seachem Cupramine. I also bought the API copper test that reads chelated and ionic copper. I'll are any tips anyone has. The white dots are back on my midnight clown today and they had dropped off after the dip yesterday.

TheJinxs
05/30/2017, 11:42 AM
Stupid question but what kind of filter can I use on my QT with cupramine? Obviously not a carbon filter. Will a skimmer affect the treatment?

Sk8r
05/30/2017, 11:52 AM
Get some pillow floss from your local hobby store ---much cheaper than plain floss, has no carbon unless you add it

TheJinxs
05/30/2017, 11:56 AM
Get some pillow floss from your local hobby store ---much cheaper than plain floss, has no carbon unless you add it

What do you think the best therapeutic range is for the cupramine? The bottle says 0.5 but I don't want to overdose my fish. There is a coral beauty angel, a midnight clown, and a black goby still alive in my infected tank. I really appreciate everyone helping me here. I feel like an idiot not recognizing the symptoms or being prepared. I didn't realize that a hermit could be a carrier for a disease that doesn't affect them.

JustinM
05/30/2017, 01:32 PM
Therapeutic is .35 to .5. More towards .5 is better because you have more wiggle room. If you steer towards the lower end you may dip below the min .35 causing a reinfection.

I have a regal angel sitting it .45 with no issues.

JustinM
05/30/2017, 01:37 PM
Did you get a seachem ammonia alert badge?

TheJinxs
05/30/2017, 01:48 PM
No, they didn't have one but I have a full API test kit and know to test daily. What else can I do to keep ammonia down? Won't water changes cause the copper level to drop?

JustinM
05/30/2017, 01:52 PM
I don't think the API ammonia kit works with cupramine.

Ammonia test kits can not distinguish ammonia from the amine based complex present in Cupramine™ and will therefore give a false high reading for ammonia while using Cupramine™. Our Ammonia Alert™ and MultiTest: Free & Total Ammonia™ test kit do not suffer from this problem as they utilize a gas exchange technology that can distinguish ammonia from amines.

JustinM
05/30/2017, 09:01 PM
About the water changes, just add the cupramine to the water. I usually do between 11-13 drops per 5 gallon bucket and that worked well for me. You'll have to test a few times to see what works best for you.

As for keeping the ammonia down, yes water changes will do that. You may have to do it every 2-3 days for a few weeks but it will eventually cycle and establish. On a positive note, cupramine is very gentle on biological filtration.

In the mean time, I would definitely get an ammonia alert. I also just noticed you wrote you had the API copper test, assuming you don't have a seachem copper test kit? It'll work but the trouble is it goes from 0-.25-.5-1.0-2.0, etc. You will want the seachem copper test kit with cupramine because the dosage is so much smaller than chellated copper. It reads in .025 increments.

aiber
07/07/2017, 05:00 AM
No, they didn't have one but I have a full API test kit and know to test daily. What else can I do to keep ammonia down? Won't water changes cause the copper level to drop?



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