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reefgeezer
06/27/2017, 12:35 PM
I have QT'd new fish for a long time and have advised those here at RC to do so many, many times. I still believe QT is best... but...

I'm starting a new tank. I'm finding that life is making it difficult to find the time to perform the tank transfer method then QT the fish for 3-4 more weeks.

I am interested in hearing from those who don't QT. How do you control pathogens that could be introduced with a new specimen? What is the oldest fish in your tank? What is the newest? Do you use UV/Ozone? How about fresh water dips or formalin baths? Etc.?

Thanks everyone. Any input will help.

norfolkgarden
06/28/2017, 05:37 PM
Um, really?
Ok.

Temp acclimate 15 minutes in floating bag away from lights.
(All fish were bought at the LFS less than an hour ago.)
Chech bag water salinity with refractometer just to have a rough idea how bad it's going to be. 1.019 ramping up to 1.024...
Reduce bag Water by a third and add 1/6 tank water with the cheap hydrometer.
Keeping bag water out of tank.
Repeat maybe 5 times about every 5 to 10 minutes or when I walk back in the room.
Dump all water from bag and dump fish into critter cage in tank overnight, with a small rock to hang out near, to fully acclimate to tank water.
Feed frozen food tomorrow individually, before releasing into tank.
Rock on.

Herbtana at half strength has been my miracle cure for ich twice. First sign of flashing, long before white spots are visible.
Seen it at the White Spot stage once and no need to wait for that.

Just super super super lucky that I would have to Google brook or velvet, so far.

And I will watch them for most of the day if I can, at least for a couple hours right after I let them out.
Conflicts of minor aggression get a steady finger pointed at the aggressor and I'm crazy enough to think that actually helps.
The fish look at my finger, make eye contact with me (lol, i swear) look back at the new fish, look back at me like an annoyed dog that's been told it can't have its favorite toy and then swim off.

lol, i swear.

If it is constant dive-bombing till death type aggression then they don't make it out of the Critter cage.


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norfolkgarden
06/28/2017, 06:03 PM
Oldest fish was a five-year-old Longnose hawkfish that survived a bad tank crash. It was pretty big when we got it and it just passed away this February.
All of the other fish are less than a year-and-a-half old.

Brilliant ocellaris clownfish
Natural black ocellaris clownfish
Three tank bred Banghai Cardinals
Strawberry dottyback and diadema dottyback
Yellow damsel for flatworm control
( the three Azure damsels for pretty color ended up going back. The yellow damsel had been in there for a year already.)
Flame hawk fish
(with proper sizing and a lot of luck you can keep a long nose and a flame hawkfish in the same heavily rocked 75 gallon tank)( and lots of finger waving at the beginning)
Flame angelfish (stupid stupid stupid stupid)
Six line wrasse
3 blue neon gobies and 2 gold neon gobies.

All fish are under 2 inches currently, except the yellow damsel at 2.25 inches.


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kmbyrnes
06/30/2017, 07:18 AM
Really? You plan to STOP doing TTM and QT?
Please rethink your strategy,

MondoBongo
06/30/2017, 07:57 AM
i would switch to a less aggressive QT regimen before i dropped it entirely. personally i would keep going with TTM + observation, but if you're dead set on not, then i would likely go with a long term observation tank at the very least.

it won't be nearly as effective at risk mitigation as TTM + observation, but it will be better than just dumping them in to the DT.

reefgeezer
06/30/2017, 08:07 AM
Really? You plan to STOP doing TTM and QT?
Please rethink your strategy,

Thanks for your concern. I don't "plan" to stop QT. However, considering the constraints on my time right now, I feel it is prudent to ask others that don't QT how they manage without it.

smatter
06/30/2017, 09:07 AM
I never quarantine... ever.

norfolkgarden
06/30/2017, 09:08 AM
Russian Roulette.

Never had a quarantine tank and paid the price with a few rounds of ich.

Simply a matter of fortunate luck that I would have to Google brook or velvet to find out what they are.

Also the entire shebang is in a 75 gallon tank.

Disasters are much less of a disaster then in a 1500 gallon display tank.

And my fish are more on the hardier end of the spectrum.

Not saying it's a great idea by any means.
It's simply fits what I have to work with.

I'm also a firm believer in the idea that bad bacteria and pathogens are everywhere, and staying healthy is the best defense.


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norfolkgarden
06/30/2017, 09:32 AM
Something worth noting.
I was thinking strictly of fish.

All of my corals get dipped before going in.
Not a fan of spiders or nudies.


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kmbyrnes
07/01/2017, 07:37 AM
Thanks for your concern. I don't "plan" to stop QT. However, considering the constraints on my time right now, I feel it is prudent to ask others that don't QT how they manage without it.

Valid question then.
May I suggest at least setting up a cycled QT and keeping new specimens there for 4 weeks?
Not that much more work and it certainly will protect your investment.
Good Luck either way.

zsuman101
07/01/2017, 08:26 AM
I never quarantine... ever.
ditto, i have taken very sick fish and put them in my reefs. it seems to me the more natural reef setting keeps the sickness bugs away and keeps them away. i have taken cyst covered tangs,copperbands, you name it maybe im just lucky but have never quarantined my new additions. when i do buy a new fish for myself im lucky to have a lfs that would never sell a sick fish. good luck. zsu

heathlindner25
07/01/2017, 01:10 PM
I watched them in the fish store, if they're eating I put them in my tank no quarantine .
But to be honest, I haven't bought a fish in years .

reefgeezer
07/03/2017, 09:33 AM
Thanks everyone. Man, I was really hoping someone had cracked the code. I guess I'll continue to QT... Crap!

norfolkgarden
07/03/2017, 11:08 AM
Thanks everyone. Man, I was really hoping someone had cracked the code. I guess I'll continue to QT... Crap!
What size is your display tank?

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TangReefer
07/03/2017, 01:25 PM
Thanks everyone. Man, I was really hoping someone had cracked the code. I guess I'll continue to QT... Crap!



I don't believe there is a crack for this code. When I first came to the hobby, I did not have the knowledge nor the resources for a QT. Having the DT mainly about tangs, I did fight my battles with ich. Having a reef tank, there was not much I could do, by direction of the LFS I lowered the salinity and increased the temperature, but obviously those were not to the extent that would be required to be actually effective. I had an hepatus that looked like it was powdered in sugar, but other tangs had little or no ich.

The end of this story is that I lost no fish and won that battle. How? High quality feeding. I fed them heavily (which required more water changes, but first things first) premium pellets with garlic guard, flakes, veggies, enriched live brine shrimp and whatever good stuff I could find. Eventually their immune systems won the fight and for years I did not see a single white spot in my fish. I am by no way advocating not quarantining, just sharing the experience I had. I know there are many people with less fortunate outcomes and also I didn't have to fight other nasty diseases, only ich. I can tell for a fact that their immune systems can fight and win the ich, however there is no cake recipe on how to proceed and effectively win, there will always be a component of luck involved.

Having said all this, now that I started a new tank I have also setup a QT. Sometimes I feel tempted to fast track things because of my past experience but I am trying to do it the right way, let's see how this new experience goes...

Cheers.

sdbc
07/03/2017, 01:34 PM
I just do QT. Initial PraziPro at the start, 20% water change each week, then into DT after 4 weeks if they look healthy and are eating. Oldest fishes are probably 3-4 years old. I tried freshwater dips and things like that and it caused too much stress (aka deaths). Frankly, I'm surprised fish aren't dropping from all the shuffling involved with TTM, but I would probably feel differently if I ever had ich get through to my DT.

reefgeezer
07/03/2017, 02:04 PM
What size is your display tank?

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Just a 90 gallon. And I'm not planning to house any sensitive fish. Damsels, Basslets, Hawkfish, Wrasses, a Cole Tang, and maybe a Dwarf Angel.

I had a lot of luck without QT back in the day... or at least I thought so. As I think back, it seems that I had good luck until I didn't. Everything would go along great until something happened: a minor heater or pump malfunction; addition of a new fish; a little too much inattention; or etc.. Once that happened, all the fish would get sick, start to die off one by one, and I'd end up starting over again. I haven't had that issue with QT'd fish.

I really was hoping there was an advancement I didn't know about that would let me skip QT. I've had well fed, otherwise healthy, unstressed fish that survived for long periods in a tank that was populated by a pathogen. Unfortunately, I've also experienced that it is easy to get past an unknown tipping point where those same fish suddenly die from a pathogen they were seemingly immune to.

I want to get the fish population set and the tank stable before I start adding corals. I think if I do them in small groups, I'll get QT done in a reasonable amount of time. Too bad I can't just buy them a stick em' in. Better safe than sorry I guess.

reefgeezer
07/03/2017, 02:06 PM
I just do QT. Initial PraziPro at the start, 20% water change each week, then into DT after 4 weeks if they look healthy and are eating. Oldest fishes are probably 3-4 years old. I tried freshwater dips and things like that and it caused too much stress (aka deaths). Frankly, I'm surprised fish aren't dropping from all the shuffling involved with TTM, but I would probably feel differently if I ever had ich get through to my DT.

Thanks. Good to know.

Celtic_Fox
07/07/2017, 05:54 PM
Thanks everyone. Man, I was really hoping someone had cracked the code. I guess I'll continue to QT... Crap!

Originally Posted by TangReefer
I don't believe there is a crack for this code...

Well, Paul B feels he's got at least some of it figured out - and he may be on to something as his tank has been going over 40 years even though he continues to add water/bugs/etc straight from the ocean and feeds foods that have not been sterilized/pasteurized.

Do an internet search for "Paul B immune tank" and you'll find a few links about it. I know one of those links he gives a pretty detailed description of how far from the QT process he goes, but even though I ran across that thread just a few days ago I couldn't find it quickly just now so you're on your own there. (But you'll see quite a few others talking about his tank or even starting to try some of his ideas.)

silverking
07/07/2017, 06:48 PM
I never qt. Buy most of my fish from same good lfs. If the fish eats and looks good they go in the tank. Never had any problems with fish.

scuzy
07/07/2017, 07:20 PM
The question is how much are your existing fish worth to you? I have over 5k in fish there is no way I would not quarantine just to get some nasty and wipe them out.

ali1
07/07/2017, 07:35 PM
Not only fish, how much is your reef worth to you? Good chance you'll lose corals trying to tear the reef to grab all fish for ich treatment.

I was one of those that didnt QT. Paid the price. Now I wouldnt take a sohal if it was free.

djbon
07/08/2017, 06:51 AM
Quality food!

silverking
07/08/2017, 05:41 PM
The question is how much are your existing fish worth to you? I have over 5k in fish there is no way I would not quarantine just to get some nasty and wipe them out.

Valid point. I only have a few hundred dollars in fish. If I had 5k I would probably QT everything

Sk8r
07/08/2017, 05:47 PM
If you aren't going to qt, set up with a potent CUC fed handsomely for four to five weeks, to prep the tank's biosystem to handle a load, and then get all the fish you're ever going to get and put them in at the same time or real close together---using all the skill and observation you've got not to buy from a 'sick' tank, including how they're piped together. Do it once, cross your fingers, and be equally careful adding corals. Don't buy coral from a fish-sale tank or one piped to it. If you didn't get hit with parasites, fungus, bacteria, or virus in your one fish purchase, and never add to it again, your luck will be FAR better than the guy who shops the fish store weekly to get some other fish to try.

reefgeezer
07/10/2017, 08:27 AM
Thanks all. No miracles I guess. I'll stay with a shorter version of my QT process. I just can't rely on luck. Hopefully I can QT in groups to short the stocking period even further.

FirstContact
07/10/2017, 08:36 PM
I've never quarantined. Been doing this since 2006. My oldest fish is my clown from 2007. I am on my first blue tang and purple tang which I've had for years along with a Jansen's wrasse. All first time fish. I'm on my second black cap basslet. First one got chased into the overflow years ago by a coral decimating pygmy angel that went back to the LFS. I lost a couple of fish to jumping before I put a net over my tank, and a few to poor husbandry(inappropriate for other tank members due to size or real estate or aggression). All of those were generally smaller. Some of the fish were fresh water dipped, but not all. The corals and fish go straight into the tank after acclimation. Some corals received iodine dips. I've never had ich, red velvet, or anything more dangerous than some aiptasia. After upgrading tanks I added one more fish but got rid of all the aiptasia during the upgrade.

I only added inhabitants from the LFS stores I've trusted based on perceived conditions in their aquariums and the general healthiness of their livestock. I've also added corals picked up at clubs. I've been very lucky and plan on quarantining all new additions coral, fish, or otherwise to my upgrade. Just not sure how or when I will treat the fish I already have.

Alexraptor
07/12/2017, 03:25 PM
Never quarantined, had one really bad bout with Ich many years ago in which I lost the animals trying to treat the outbreak in an unprepared tank. =/
Otherwise I've pretty much been in the clear, like others I try to avoid buying from systems with ailing fish, and my big fancy in more recent years has been Mandarin Dragonets anyway which are a bit more resistant against external parasites.

I "should" have a QT, but sadly just don't have the space for one. =/