Yellow leather question

[Vincero]

Hi guys,

I purchased this leather from my LFS yesterday. They recommended it because apparently it stays smaller than typical toadstools.

According to them, it's a sycophython elegans. -- it didn't look markedly yellow in the store. After reading, it seems that this might be a somewhat problematic coral for a newbie like me. (I'm not convinced it will stay small either!!!)

When I added it to my tank it looked pretty angry about its new home. On the first day, it closed up and turned green. Now it looks a little more settled and I'm seeing greater polyp extension. However, it still looks a little green to me, and certainly not yellow!

Is there anyone out there who has experience with this type of coral? I'd like some advice (and hopefully some reassurance!) About caring for it.

My parameters are good:

Temp: 25 c
Salinity: 1.025
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 2 (maybe a little lower)
Alkalinity: 8


Lighting is AI prime HD (any recommendations on intensity here? I don't want to bleach anything!!)

Not sure about calcium yet... test kit in the mail.

Many thanks...

[Vincero]

Pictures:

https://m.imgur.com/a/YoAEK
http://imgur.com/a/14KTm
http://imgur.com/a/CIdAy (without flash. The true colour is hard to capture!)

[Vincero]

*** Sarcophython --- bad spelling mistake in original post. Can't seem to edit it. Sorry for bombarding thread. Thanks again :)

[Ron Reefman]

I can't confirm that what you have is Sarcophython elegans. So many toadstool type leathers can look so similar under different conditions. I've had a Yellow Fiji Leather for a number of years now and it has in fact grown much slower than either of my other leathers. Maybe even a 10:1 ratio and that's a huge difference.

Mine has been in a variety of conditions and tanks. Like most leathers, it's pretty hearty and can tolerate less than optimum conditions. However, that said, they do tend to not color up 'properly' or polyp out when they aren't happy. The good news it they are good at survival and even adapting, in my experience. For several months after I moved mine to a new tank (after it's old tank failed) it was a pale greenish white and didn't polyp out at all. Over that time very little has changed in the tank and it is now more open in structure, much more vivid yellow and always polyped out in the light.

Don't stress out about it. Give it time in the tank... maybe even more than a month to acclimate. And don't worry about it getting too big. All leathers are easy to frag down to the size you want. You can literally take a pair of scissors of a sharp blade and cut off a chunk. The coral will be very upset and look bad for days. But the cut will heal and the piece you cut off will heal as well. If it's held to a frag plug or a small piece of rubble rock, it will attach over time. I wind a length of fine fishing line around it but there are many other techniques using netting, bridal veil, rubber bands, even needle and thread!

Live aquaria has a good amount of info for many aquarium critters. And whenever you are unsure about anything alive in your tank, Google is your friend.

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=597+600+651&pcatid=651

[AlSimmons]

The link below might help, but FWIW I don't think you were sold a Sarcophyton elegans. :(

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2013/3/corals

[NYCBOB]

yellow leather isnt an easy coral to keep. it needs very good lighting along with good flow.

[Vincero]

Thanks so much for the advice, Ron. I guess I'll wait it out and see what happens. My husbandry is good and I'm dedicated, so I'll keep on top of my maintenance and do what I can to make it happy.

What should I do if this isn't a's advertised? The coral was rather expensive, especially compared to its current tank mates...

[Vincero]

I think I need to give him time to adjust and see what happens in terms of coloration. This morning I had a look and the polyps are still visible (bumpy - not fully extended), even with the lights off.

If this does turn out to be an Elegans, then I think I can meet its requirements for strong flow and high lighting. Currently, it's sitting in front of my wavemaker and has noticeably perked up a little more already. (Yay!)

Still, I'm not sure what to do with my AI Prime lighting. Currently It's set to a 7 hour light cycle, with everything except greens and reds ramping up to 60% throughout the day. The zoas and the capnella seem happy enough with this arrangement, but obviously they're not particularly fussy!

I trust my LFS, so hopefully it is as advertised. :/ Gulp.

[Ron Reefman]

Does your 7 hour light cycle include a sunrise and sunset as well? If so, how long, or just how much midday intense light do you run. & hours is a good amount if it's all high enough PAR to get photosynthesis going.

I've never owned any AI fixtures, so I can't offer any settings. And if you don't have a PAR meter (most people don't) or access to one (From a friend, an LFS or online rental) you could try the Canary in a Coalmine test.

The 'canary in a coalmine' approach: Get a small frag of a red cap monti or any other inexpensive plating coral, and set it in your tank as high or higher than all the other corals. Start your acclimatization at a low number and raise it every week or two. You can raise it a bit faster early on, but get much more careful as you get up to higher power levels. When you raise the light intensity too high, the red cap will start to bleach before any other corals. At that point, dial the power back a bit (5% to 10%) and you should be good to go.

For info purposes, my Yellow Fiji Leather is 8" under the surface of the water and a total of 15" from the led fixture. If you (or anybody) would care to know the PAR at the coral, I can pull out my PAR meter and test it during the 4 hour midday light schedule. I do run a long sunrise and sunset. The last 2 hours of sunrise and the first 2 hours of sunset are still fairly high PAR levels, so the corals are getting a good 8 hour full sun schedule which is about the max a coral would get on a reef in the tropics.

[Vincero]

Thanks again, Ron.

I'd be very interested in your PAR for the yellow Fiji you're keeping! You're right, I don't have a PAR meter; at this stage, my equipment is quite basic.

Believe it or not, my leather is almost at the same height yours is. I measured it this morning: It is 8 inches below the water surface with the AI Prime HD sitting 8 inches above the water. So... around 16 inches total.

As for my schedule, I've not been very adventurous with the Prime's settings yet. (I'm running a somewhat short schedule to discourage diatom growth) My light cycle includes a sunrise and sunset. The sunrise is currently only an hour long and the sunset is two hours. Midday intensity sees all lighting (with the exception of blues and greens, which I keep low) reach 60%. I'm not yet sure what the PAR is, though...

Something tells me that gradually increasing the light

[Vincero]

might be a good idea. (Why can't I edit my posts?)

[AlSimmons]

Why can't I edit my posts?

You need to have at least 50 posts to do so.

[Ron Reefman]

Thanks again, Ron.

I'd be very interested in your PAR for the yellow Fiji you're keeping! You're right, I don't have a PAR meter; at this stage, my equipment is quite basic.

Believe it or not, my leather is almost at the same height yours is. I measured it this morning: It is 8 inches below the water surface with the AI Prime HD sitting 8 inches above the water. So... around 16 inches total.

As for my schedule, I've not been very adventurous with the Prime's settings yet. (I'm running a somewhat short schedule to discourage diatom growth) My light cycle includes a sunrise and sunset. The sunrise is currently only an hour long and the sunset is two hours. Midday intensity sees all lighting (with the exception of blues and greens, which I keep low) reach 60%. I'm not yet sure what the PAR is, though...

Something tells me that gradually increasing the light

The PAR at my Fiji Leather is 175 and to be honest, that's probably a bit too low as mine still has kind of a light green over yellow color.

A 7 hour lights on with a 1 hour sunrise and 2 hour sunset is probably short of what you really want to aim for.

And you say you keep the blues intensity low? OK to keep greens and reds low. Red and some of the white (the red part of white) is what grows algae (diatoms) not blue. Blue in the 420nm to 460nm range is the most important spectrum for the zooxanthellae in the coral to do photosynthesis. See the chart below.

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp37/RonReefman/spectrum-corals_zpscel9w5hx.jpg (http://s395.photobucket.com/user/RonReefman/media/spectrum-corals_zpscel9w5hx.jpg.html)

[Vincero]

Hi Ron - I can't see the picture you've attached. And that was a typo; my blues are always high. I meant greens and reds are low :)

[Vincero]

After doing some more research...

It seems that on 100% intensity, the AI Prime has a PAR of 243 6 inches below the water surface when the light is 8 inches above the tank.

So, to reach a PAR of 175 (ish), I'd have to ramp my lights up to about 72% intensity.

However, you recommend more. What PAR do you think I should be aiming for with this coral if it's a Fiji leather? -- 200? Many Thanks!

[Ron Reefman]

Sorry, I moved the photo at PhotoBucket, so lets try again.

And I assumed the 'blue' comment was a misstatement, but you know what happens when people assume!

Your intensity is at 60% now, so bump it up 5% every week or two (like most things in this hobby, slower is better). I think a PAR of 200 is probably a good goal.
Just pay CLOSE attention to all the other corals in the tank as the PAR goes up.

http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp37/RonReefman/led%20and%20light%20info/spectrum-corals_zpscel9w5hx.jpg (http://s395.photobucket.com/user/RonReefman/media/led%20and%20light%20info/spectrum-corals_zpscel9w5hx.jpg.html)

[Vincero]

https://m.imgur.com/a/gqIbu

That sounds like a great plan! -- here's what the leather looks like today. I've adjusted my white balance so that the picture colour is more accurate. As you can see, polyp extension is far better, but he still has a green "tinge". What do you think about its position in relation to my wave maker? (3rd pic)

[Ron Reefman]

https://m.imgur.com/a/gqIbu

That sounds like a great plan! -- here's what the leather looks like today. I've adjusted my white balance so that the picture colour is more accurate. As you can see, polyp extension is far better, but he still has a green "tinge". What do you think about its position in relation to my wave maker? (3rd pic)

Give it 3 to 7 days and see if the polyps extend out more. If they don't, you might try aiming the wavemaker a bit higher so it blows just over the top of the coral. Leathers are really slow to adapt to changes.

[Vincero]

Thank you for your advice. I've read that these guys like "strong indirect flow".

That is, flow that isn't just pounding at them 24/7. How do you create "indirect" flow with a wave maker? Or is it more about positioning the coral elsewhere...

I will leave him be for now, but if he doesn't come out then this might be worth experimenting with this. Cheers.

[EzReefs]

You could add another power head for more indirect flow.

[Ron Reefman]

Thank you for your advice. I've read that these guys like "strong indirect flow".

That is, flow that isn't just pounding at them 24/7. How do you create "indirect" flow with a wave maker? Or is it more about positioning the coral elsewhere...

I will leave him be for now, but if he doesn't come out then this might be worth experimenting with this. Cheers.

Indirect flow just means you don't have the wavemaker pointed directly at it. You can increase the indirect flow in the tank by adding more water movement. What kind of turnover (total flow= return pump flow to the tank and all the powerheads, wavemakers and gyres divided by the water volume in the DT) do you have in the tank now? And IMHO, the more random the flow is in the tank, the better. I'd rather have 4 small pumps at 400gph than 2 bigger pumps at 800gph... or even at 1000gph.