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malx
07/04/2017, 01:04 PM
Hi, Everyone.

So right now on my 20" deep tank I'm running four T5 bulbs (three blues and one purple) as well as two Kessil 360w Tuna Blue lights. I'm going to be getting a good deal on an ATI Sunpower 6 bulb unit and am going to be swapping out my current lighting for that. Since the Sunpower is larger than what I have and I don't have room for the Kessils anymore, I need some suggestions with LED lights to add to my T5 fixture. Currently, I use the Kessils for shimmer. They don't go higher than 25% intensity but I do like the shimmer they provide that gives the tank a really natural looking lighting profile.

So my question: what LED light steps can I get that would provide a white or a white/blue shimmer to compliment my T5s? I was thinking two Reef Brites but I was hoping people here had a less expensive option (I have a peninsula tank so I'd need them both front and back). Anyone have any suggestions?

Let me know,
Joey

swk
07/04/2017, 01:51 PM
What size tank? Front to back?

There are a few cheaper options than the reef brites, but the reef brites are tried and true by some heavy hitters in the industry.

That said - Logan at Reef Breeders has a history of some really nice led fixtures for very nice prices, and they have a new led strip light available. But personally, I use 2 reef brite XHO's on either side of my ati t5 myself. They are powerful and nice looking to boot.

jda
07/04/2017, 02:14 PM
If you really like the shimmer from the Kessils, then keep them. Reefbrite will not have the same look - it will discoball with all of the LEDs instead of having the shimmer like a MH does.

If you want it whiter, then they sell whiter Kessils.

malx
07/04/2017, 02:31 PM
What size tank? Front to back?

There are a few cheaper options than the reef brites, but the reef brites are tried and true by some heavy hitters in the industry.

That said - Logan at Reef Breeders has a history of some really nice led fixtures for very nice prices, and they have a new led strip light available. But personally, I use 2 reef brite XHO's on either side of my ati t5 myself. They are powerful and nice looking to boot.



36" x 20"

Will take a look.


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swk
07/04/2017, 02:31 PM
What's the front to back dimension?

malx
07/04/2017, 02:41 PM
If you really like the shimmer from the Kessils, then keep them. Reefbrite will not have the same look - it will discoball with all of the LEDs instead of having the shimmer like a MH does.

If you want it whiter, then they sell whiter Kessils.



After I wrote this post I was also thinking... what if I found two very small MH reflectors instead and mounts them on the left and right sides at a 45 degree angle instead of going with the reef brites.

Here's inside my canopy now:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170704/96a8cfd2ef6624bb849ede2e7038d0fc.jpg


You can see the kessils here:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170704/4f77e515aa7a68ea478e7afdaf5fdb69.jpg

But the ATI fixture would block them so considering of mounting them on the sides at an angle like here:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170704/e1efa36bafa5caf6db8058b48dc471fe.jpg

And here:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170704/50c84337fef3076a7a6e65efd0484bb7.jpg

To shoot light like this way:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170704/88c6d35d5dcc27e474d90f5bc78fde2f.jpg

Make sense?





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jda
07/04/2017, 02:45 PM
You probably know by now that I think that MH is the best of breed lighting for Acropora dominated tanks. T5s are really nice too, but I don't care for the sterile, non-shimmer look, but I would use them in a heartbeat over an LED on the market.

I would highly recommend 150W HQI with 14K Phoenix bulbs on M81 ballasts in between there, but they are not for everybody. They have some smaller sized reflectors for these.

In any case. If you do get the reefbrites, don't sell your Kessils until you are sure that you like the disco-ball look.

malx
07/04/2017, 02:53 PM
You probably know by now that I think that MH is the best of breed lighting for Acropora dominated tanks. T5s are really nice too, but I don't care for the sterile, non-shimmer look, but I would use them in a heartbeat over an LED on the market.

I would highly recommend 150W HQI with 14K Phoenix bulbs on M81 ballasts in between there, but they are not for everybody. They have some smaller sized reflectors for these.

In any case. If you do get the reefbrites, don't sell your Kessils until you are sure that you like the disco-ball look.

Because of my limited space I would go with small reflectors but I guess I'm sold on MH now! I love my Kessils, I think they are great, but at the end of the day, I can go old school and get some MH and sell my Kessils.

I'm sold.

Would you mind sending me a list of parts you'd by? Possibly from the BRS site? keep in mind, I need the SMALLEST form factor available. I'm a noob when it comes to MH so I'm assuming the ballast gets mounted away from the light reflector and that could save space? Haalp, lol.

malx
07/04/2017, 02:54 PM
Watching this right now :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKnZq0-0ghY

malx
07/04/2017, 03:13 PM
You probably know by now that I think that MH is the best of breed lighting for Acropora dominated tanks. T5s are really nice too, but I don't care for the sterile, non-shimmer look, but I would use them in a heartbeat over an LED on the market.

I would highly recommend 150W HQI with 14K Phoenix bulbs on M81 ballasts in between there, but they are not for everybody. They have some smaller sized reflectors for these.

In any case. If you do get the reefbrites, don't sell your Kessils until you are sure that you like the disco-ball look.

I think I could go with two of these
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/bimini-sun-double-ended-hqi-metal-halide-reflector-hamilton.html

And the bulbs you recommended.

Robert Hoeck
07/04/2017, 03:16 PM
I'd suggest 2 Bimini pendants. The 150 14k's or 250's. Also, maybe 1 250 biinini with your kessils on sides?

jda
07/04/2017, 03:17 PM
BRS is going to be tough... small is not what MH folks want, so this is a tough assignment and you might have to look a bit. Most want spread with large reflectors. :)

I have this same reflector in 150W. It is small and potent - spread is not as good as a 18" reflector, but what do you expect? 250W is powerful and grows acropora like crazy. More heat and power, though.
http://www.aquacave.com/250w-metal-halide-hqi-parabolic-reflector-with-lens.html

You can get new sockets for it and swap them out, keep looking or use the 250W version. 150W is a great light IMO, especially with the T5s. Great bulb choices here.
http://www.aquacave.com/150w-hqi-metal-halide-socket-pair.html

Hamilton Bimini Sun is also smaller, but more made for open-top tanks.

Hamilton is your best bet for ballasts. The have real HQI ballasts to drive the bulbs right - electronic will fire them, but it is not the same. They have 10' cords so you can mount out of the way. If you are serious, you might lob them a call - they are very helpful.

If you are willing to replace your T5s with some in a new fixture, then a 3' cebu sun can work. They come in all different kinds of configurations with 2x MH and 4x 39W T5s. These are SE MH - 175W is enough along with the T5s, but the best SE bulb is not available in this wattage and you have to go 250W.

Sorry for being all over the place. In the end, just make sure that you get the right ballast for the bulb/wattage and you cannot go wrong. If you decide on a fixture/reflector, then most can recommend bulbs and ballasts, but here is a primer: For 150W or 250W Double Ended, 14K Phoenx on HQI ballasts are best. For 175W SE, 14K Hamilton for whiter and 20K Hamilton for bluer either on Electronic ballasts. For 250W SE, 20K Radium on HQI ballasts. For 400W SE (too much for you), 20K Radium on Regular Magnetic ballasts

malx
07/04/2017, 03:18 PM
I'd suggest 2 Bimini pendants. The 150 14k's or 250's. Also, maybe 1 250 biinini with your kessils on sides?



If I'm going MH I'm gunna sell the kessils because of money and also I'm out of plugs. I'll go with the two Biminis. BRS has them on sale. It's meant to be :)


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Robert Hoeck
07/04/2017, 03:24 PM
Might be sale on Hamilton site for the Bimini 150's.

malx
07/04/2017, 03:27 PM
Might be sale on Hamilton site for the Bimini 150's.

This is all I should need right?
https://screencast.com/t/YlpigZXSRncx

I have an extra bulb in there just in case one breaks. I don't need Ballasts with these right?

Let me know!

malx
07/04/2017, 03:57 PM
BRS is going to be tough... small is not what MH folks want, so this is a tough assignment and you might have to look a bit. Most want spread with large reflectors. :)

I have this same reflector in 150W. It is small and potent - spread is not as good as a 18" reflector, but what do you expect? 250W is powerful and grows acropora like crazy. More heat and power, though.
http://www.aquacave.com/250w-metal-halide-hqi-parabolic-reflector-with-lens.html

You can get new sockets for it and swap them out, keep looking or use the 250W version. 150W is a great light IMO, especially with the T5s. Great bulb choices here.
http://www.aquacave.com/150w-hqi-metal-halide-socket-pair.html

Hamilton Bimini Sun is also smaller, but more made for open-top tanks.

Hamilton is your best bet for ballasts. The have real HQI ballasts to drive the bulbs right - electronic will fire them, but it is not the same. They have 10' cords so you can mount out of the way. If you are serious, you might lob them a call - they are very helpful.

If you are willing to replace your T5s with some in a new fixture, then a 3' cebu sun can work. They come in all different kinds of configurations with 2x MH and 4x 39W T5s. These are SE MH - 175W is enough along with the T5s, but the best SE bulb is not available in this wattage and you have to go 250W.

Sorry for being all over the place. In the end, just make sure that you get the right ballast for the bulb/wattage and you cannot go wrong. If you decide on a fixture/reflector, then most can recommend bulbs and ballasts, but here is a primer: For 150W or 250W Double Ended, 14K Phoenx on HQI ballasts are best. For 175W SE, 14K Hamilton for whiter and 20K Hamilton for bluer either on Electronic ballasts. For 250W SE, 20K Radium on HQI ballasts. For 400W SE (too much for you), 20K Radium on Regular Magnetic ballasts

Ok thanks for all of these tips! BRS is having a sale on the Bimini but I'm going to look at all of this before I make a choice. Your options are super inexpensive and i'm totally cool with doing some DIY work! Thanks for all of your help!

malx
07/04/2017, 04:06 PM
BRS is going to be tough... small is not what MH folks want, so this is a tough assignment and you might have to look a bit. Most want spread with large reflectors. :)

I have this same reflector in 150W. It is small and potent - spread is not as good as a 18" reflector, but what do you expect? 250W is powerful and grows acropora like crazy. More heat and power, though.
http://www.aquacave.com/250w-metal-halide-hqi-parabolic-reflector-with-lens.html

You can get new sockets for it and swap them out, keep looking or use the 250W version. 150W is a great light IMO, especially with the T5s. Great bulb choices here.
http://www.aquacave.com/150w-hqi-metal-halide-socket-pair.html

Hamilton Bimini Sun is also smaller, but more made for open-top tanks.

Hamilton is your best bet for ballasts. The have real HQI ballasts to drive the bulbs right - electronic will fire them, but it is not the same. They have 10' cords so you can mount out of the way. If you are serious, you might lob them a call - they are very helpful.

If you are willing to replace your T5s with some in a new fixture, then a 3' cebu sun can work. They come in all different kinds of configurations with 2x MH and 4x 39W T5s. These are SE MH - 175W is enough along with the T5s, but the best SE bulb is not available in this wattage and you have to go 250W.

Sorry for being all over the place. In the end, just make sure that you get the right ballast for the bulb/wattage and you cannot go wrong. If you decide on a fixture/reflector, then most can recommend bulbs and ballasts, but here is a primer: For 150W or 250W Double Ended, 14K Phoenx on HQI ballasts are best. For 175W SE, 14K Hamilton for whiter and 20K Hamilton for bluer either on Electronic ballasts. For 250W SE, 20K Radium on HQI ballasts. For 400W SE (too much for you), 20K Radium on Regular Magnetic ballasts

Ok so from what I am reading you need Ballasts even with the Bimini Sun reflectors. If that's the case it makes the most sense just to go the DIY route I feel. I'll check out the site you recommended. Can you confirm that I would need Ballasts with the Bimini Sun?

07/04/2017, 04:52 PM
Well just to give you a perspective - I run 2 x 250 watt radiums on M80 ballast in lumenarc mini reflectors over a 30 in x 30 in x 18 in tank .
Following jda's advice I lowered my bulbs such that I have now 350 PAR on the sand bed and around 450-475 for my Purple Monster and Oregon Tort which are highest in my tank .

I am a little itchy to move to ATI but somehow I just can't give up on my radiums after reading last 10 year of TOTM threads .

So , if you want to go acros anywhere in your tank and not worry about lights ever ,I would definitely do Halides - more so radium 250 in SE or Phoenix 250 in DE but both on magnetic ballast .

Regards,
Abhishek

07/04/2017, 04:58 PM
Just for inspiration , this TOTM was one of my favs of all times due to the use of only radiums and no supplements . Of course color and growth is out of question - amazing

http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index.php/current-issue/article/138-tank-of-the-month

If you decide to go for only halides , sadly Bimini won't be enough I think for reflectors .
You would need bigger ones like the Hamilton Cayman sun .

Regards,
Abhishek

jda
07/04/2017, 05:19 PM
Biminins need ballasts. M81 for the 150W and M80 for the 250W. I would not do the 250W unless you want to crank it up to 11. The Hamiltons are nice and have nice long cords. The hum a bit (about like a return pump) and can get warm, but you can mount them remotely - I keep mine in the stand since I need the heat and I cannot hear them.

I use 14K Phoenix and 20K Radiums (different tanks) without T5s. I just turn them on/off with light timers. I have nothing against T5s along with MH, but I just would rather burn another MH rather than have the same wattage in T5s. If you want to abandon the T5s for just Haildes, then you will need reflectors that spread better, but this is a bigger jump than what you are doing. Personally, I would use MH and T5 for now and see how that goes and if you feel like jumping up to 2x250W MH on larger reflectors some day, then you will have a good bit of experience and will know what to expect.

The ballasts will put out a bit of heat. The bulbs will put out more. The heat is TOTALLY easy to mitigate, but it does need to be mitigated or you can get in trouble. Just build in some fans into your DIY setup. Here in Colorado, I welcome the heat all but for about three weeks in July when I need to keep my stand doors open - nothing else. If we run the air (which is not often since it gets down into the 50s most night and the attic fan will keep the house cool most of the day), then I don't even need to do keep the doors open. In Missouri where it was high 70s at night with 80+% humidity, it was about three months and I had to use fans and keep the stand doors open. The rest of the time, the heaters work less and the heat is a blessing. I have no idea how this will do in Vegas, which is one reason that I suggested the 150W over the 250W since they make less heat. With the T5s you might only need to run the MH 4-5 hours a day so that will help too. If you turn a fan on as soon as the MH come on, they usually stay plenty cool - if you wait until they get hot, then the cooling can lag.

I was able to keep 30G breeders cool with 400W MH over them with just fans, so you should have no problem with more volume and less wattage.

jda
07/04/2017, 05:23 PM
BTW - I have MH ballasts that are older than my kids. One of them is driving now. I know that folks like to talk longevity with other light sources, but I have had great luck not having to rebuy MH gear.

malx
07/04/2017, 05:26 PM
Biminins need ballasts. M81 for the 150W and M80 for the 250W. I would not do the 250W unless you want to crank it up to 11. The Hamiltons are nice and have nice long cords. The hum a bit (about like a return pump) and can get warm, but you can mount them remotely - I keep mine in the stand since I need the heat and I cannot hear them.

I use 14K Phoenix and 20K Radiums (different tanks) without T5s. I just turn them on/off with light timers. I have nothing against T5s along with MH, but I just would rather burn another MH rather than have the same wattage in T5s. If you want to abandon the T5s for just Haildes, then you will need reflectors that spread better, but this is a bigger jump than what you are doing. Personally, I would use MH and T5 for now and see how that goes and if you feel like jumping up to 2x250W MH on larger reflectors some day, then you will have a good bit of experience and will know what to expect.

The ballasts will put out a bit of heat. The bulbs will put out more. The heat is TOTALLY easy to mitigate, but it does need to be mitigated or you can get in trouble. Just build in some fans into your DIY setup. Here in Colorado, I welcome the heat all but for about three weeks in July when I need to keep my stand doors open - nothing else. If we run the air (which is not often since it gets down into the 50s most night and the attic fan will keep the house cool most of the day), then I don't even need to do keep the doors open. In Missouri where it was high 70s at night with 80+% humidity, it was about three months and I had to use fans and keep the stand doors open. The rest of the time, the heaters work less and the heat is a blessing. I have no idea how this will do in Vegas, which is one reason that I suggested the 150W over the 250W since they make less heat. With the T5s you might only need to run the MH 4-5 hours a day so that will help too. If you turn a fan on as soon as the MH come on, they usually stay plenty cool - if you wait until they get hot, then the cooling can lag.

I was able to keep 30G breeders cool with 400W MH over them with just fans, so you should have no problem with more volume and less wattage.



Ok cool. Thanks for all of the tips. First step is gunna be to mount the new T5 fixture to see what kind of room I have. I'll keep everyone posted as to what happens as the week progresses.

I'm in Vegas by the way, so I don't need the heat [emoji23]

It does get cold here in the winter though, below freezing at night.


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Potatohead
07/04/2017, 05:31 PM
How can you have room for halide reflectors but not for the Kessils?

Sunpowers rock, good choice.

malx
07/04/2017, 05:34 PM
How can you have room for halide reflectors but not for the Kessils?

Sunpowers rock, good choice.



Because of the mounting options but I'm going to see if I can build a custom mount for the kessils first. I also thought that those Bimini reflectors didn't need ballasts but now that they do I may try to stick with the Kessils.


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jda
07/04/2017, 05:41 PM
As long as the humidity is low, you can evaporate and keep stuff cool. Heat and 80+% with no AC is a problem, but most folks in those kind of climates have AC anymore.

One of the locals got a 6 or 8 bulb ATI, rewired it so that the two middle bulbs could be removed and put some Kessils in there. He uses them like you, just for some shimmer since he does not like what they do to his acropora.

malx
07/04/2017, 05:44 PM
As long as the humidity is low, you can evaporate and keep stuff cool. Heat and 80+% with no AC is a problem, but most folks in those kind of climates have AC anymore.

One of the locals got a 6 or 8 bulb ATI, rewired it so that the two middle bulbs could be removed and put some Kessils in there. He uses them like you, just for some shimmer since he does not like what they do to his acropora.



Oh really? Cool idea but I think I could swing a side mounting option with them or possibly halides. But the more I read about halide the more I see they should probably be used as my
Primary grow light opposed to T5. Really good call here about the reef brite not being what I wanted.


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swk
07/04/2017, 06:05 PM
There is no disco with reefbrites. They are single
Color. Or 50/50 cool white and 450nm blues.

swk
07/04/2017, 06:11 PM
Also - I will put a plug in for t5s. I know halides are very popular, but for par for watt, t5 is a great choice all around and is a proven sole light source for acropora.

Look man, they'll all grow coral. The halides and t5s are a no brainer. It's just a matter of whether or not the heat factor of the halides are a plus or minus for you and your location/climate.

malx
07/07/2017, 06:05 PM
Alright everyone. Here's what I ended up doing!

I have removed all lighting which included my 4, T5 bulbs and my two Kessil A360w and replaced it with a 6 bulb ATI Sunpower and two Kessil A80s. I'm running 4 blue plus, one purple plus, and one actinic. During the day when all lights are on, the kessils are turned up to 90% and full white (they aren't that powerful) and I must say the lighting on the tank looks spectacular!!!

It's got the perfect ammout of shimmer and white light and with the mostly blue diffused light, it looks like a real reef with the sun blaring in!

I chose to swap out my kessils with the smaller ones because of the form factor of them. If you notice, the A80s are low profile lights meant for a nano tank. The position of where the gooseneck mounts makes it perfect to mount them in a sideways manner.

Thanks everyone for the advice. Wil see how this goes.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170708/6c4166dcaaf268081b14d105524742b6.jpg


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murphreef
07/07/2017, 07:32 PM
looks really cool im sure in person even better!

malx
07/07/2017, 09:28 PM
looks really cool im sure in person even better!



Thank you!!


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