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Albertan_Reef
07/20/2017, 02:58 PM
New here, but not new to reef keeping. Currently have a 55 gallon reef tank, but want to go bigger. I sold my 180 last winter when we moved.

Been following the King of DIY on Youtube, and decided to go a plywood tank.

What thickness of Glass should i use, it will have 2 viewing panels and be approximately 400 gallons. It will be 72Lx36Wx36H.

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Bagabaga
07/20/2017, 10:07 PM
1/2 inch acrylic

Clowning_Around
07/21/2017, 06:37 AM
Check out the King of DIY channel you referenced, he built a 370g about that size and mentions the glass thickness. I think he says 12mm. You can probably even do tempered given your not likely to drill the view panel on a plywood tank. I wish I had the space to do one else I would. Gluck.

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karimwassef
07/21/2017, 06:54 AM
36" deep? How deep is the glass?

I wouldn't go less than 3/4". Tempered would be better.

I've built plywood tanks and they're very forgiving, but the glass part isn't.

ca1ore
07/21/2017, 06:55 AM
Hmmn, 12mm-1/2" seems thin for 36" tall. When I built my plywood tank years ago, I went with 12 mm for 24" of height.

mcgyvr
07/21/2017, 07:50 AM
What thickness of Glass should i use, it will have 2 viewing panels and be approximately 400 gallons. It will be 72Lx36Wx36H.



And which sides will the viewing panels be on.
We can assume the 72" side but assumptions aren't good when potentially expensive water damage is involved..

OR better yet please give the specific dimensions of said viewing panels..

Or have fun..
http://www.ispoptics.com/articles/8/DESIGN%20OF%20PRESSURE%20WINDOW
or
https://www.crystran.co.uk/userfiles/files/design-of-pressure-windows.pdf

karimwassef
07/21/2017, 08:03 AM
Love the links... what's the "unsupported radius" on a flat panel?

sde1500
07/21/2017, 08:04 AM
And which sides will the viewing panels be on.
We can assume the 72" side but assumptions aren't good when potentially expensive water damage is involved..

OR better yet please give the specific dimensions of said viewing panels..

Or have fun..
http://www.ispoptics.com/articles/8/DESIGN%20OF%20PRESSURE%20WINDOW
or
https://www.crystran.co.uk/userfiles/files/design-of-pressure-windows.pdf

:headwally: I don't find those fun at all!

mcgyvr
07/21/2017, 08:18 AM
:headwally: I don't find those fun at all!

Neither is cleaning up and paying for hundreds of gallons of water on the floor...

But thats how to get the answer to the question asked..

Super simple when you just plug it into excel and let it do it for you..
You can color the cells all fancy and have your fun there :p

karimwassef
07/21/2017, 08:24 AM
Awww... formulas are sexy and fun :D

Clowning_Around
07/21/2017, 08:37 AM
Hmmn, 12mm-1/2" seems thin for 36" tall. When I built my plywood tank years ago, I went with 12 mm for 24" of height.Well the 12 was just for the glass which wasn't the full height of the tank it was framed by the plywood by like maybe 4 inches around it, minimizing the glass which actually came from a glass aquarium he repurposed. I guess if your planning on doing the full 36 height of tank with viewable glass, then yes this would no longer apply.

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Albertan_Reef
07/21/2017, 10:23 AM
The glass will have a support all the way around.

Thanks for the answers.

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ca1ore
07/21/2017, 11:17 AM
Well the 12 was just for the glass which wasn't the full height of the tank it was framed by the plywood by like maybe 4 inches around it, minimizing the glass which actually came from a glass aquarium he repurposed. I guess if your planning on doing the full 36 height of tank with viewable glass, then yes this would no longer apply.

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Having built a plywood tank, I understand the math; however, even for an 'unsupported' 28-30" (I did 3" lips on mine) 12mm still seems chintzy. But, I'm borderline OCD about over-engineering everything related to my tank. I prefer knowing something will hold rather than worrying it won't.

mcgyvr
07/21/2017, 11:19 AM
what's the "unsupported radius" on a flat panel?

Sorry that first link was for "circular" viewing panes..
This one is better and shows what those variables are..
www.advancedglass.net/pdfdocs/PressureWindows.pdf

Albertan_Reef
07/21/2017, 11:19 AM
Im border line ocd about it as well. my 55 gallon is on a wood frame made out of 4x4s and lag bolts lol.

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mcgyvr
07/21/2017, 12:06 PM
Im border line ocd about it as well. my 55 gallon is on a wood frame made out of 4x4s and lag bolts lol.



Thats more than "borderline"..
Unless there is a Sherman Tank sitting on the stand next to it.. :p

Albertan_Reef
07/21/2017, 12:10 PM
Thats more than "borderline"..
Unless there is a Sherman Tank sitting on the stand next to it.. :pHaha, better safe then sorry!

This one i wont be going as "crazy" but still will go iver board.

I phoned a coupke aquarium manufacturers here and proced out vlass and asked recommendations . they said 12 mm will be more the sufficient if im doing a full perimeter of the glass with ply wood.

I will be using The king of DIY ply wood tank as a reference when building mine. He used 12 mm as well. I just thought id get opinions.

Next question, if done properly , how long can a ply wood tank last? Im gunna assume itll last for ever.

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Clowning_Around
07/21/2017, 12:14 PM
Lasts, probably comes down to your build quality 1st followed by how its cared for / abused and the life of the pond armor. Just guesses though on my part

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Albertan_Reef
07/21/2017, 12:17 PM
Lasts, probably comes down to your build quality 1st followed by how its cared for / abused and the life of the pond armor. Just guesses though on my part

Sent from my SM-G930P using TapatalkThanks , i will be taking my time to do it properly lol.

I figured a ply wood tank is a cheaper alternative, as the cheapeat 300+ gallon tank ive found is $3500.

The glass for this is only going to cost me $170 threw a tank manufacturer here.

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mcgyvr
07/21/2017, 12:25 PM
Wait till you add up the costs for everything though..
Then throw in a value for your time spent.. There will be a lot of hours into it..
Depending on how much you value your time you should be way in excess of $3500 easily..

And 55 to 300+ is quite a jump... Good luck.. Enjoy..
Post progress pics in a build thread... :thumbsup:

Albertan_Reef
07/21/2017, 12:29 PM
Wait till you add up the costs for everything though..
Then throw in a value for your time spent.. There will be a lot of hours into it..
Depending on how much you value your time you should be way in excess of $3500 easily..

And 55 to 300+ is quite a jump... Good luck.. Enjoy..
Post progress pics in a build thread... [emoji106]Thats true as well.

I went from a 55 gallon planted, to 100 gallon planted. Then to a 55 gallon reef to a 180 gallon reef. I sold my 180 when we moved across the province, because i couldnt find any "friends" to work for beer and help me move it.

So currently i have a 55 gallon, but miss my 180, now we own our home, im going to build my dream tank.

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ca1ore
07/21/2017, 12:30 PM
FWIW, when I made mine (back in 1992, or thereabouts), it lasted about 5 years before starting to ooze. I should have used marine grade ply, because the surface grain cracked the epoxy paint in a few spots. Unfamiliar with pond armor, perhaps it is better.

karimwassef
07/21/2017, 12:30 PM
Shhhhhhh! Let him enjoy it.

karimwassef
07/21/2017, 12:31 PM
I wouldn't use epoxy paint. I would use two part epoxy and get it over multiple layers (clear bubbles) to 1/8" thick, preferably 1/4"

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/3B13CA6D-4811-4984-9A69-83253DA518B9-459-0000010A684D3B5B_zps9efd11a8.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/3B13CA6D-4811-4984-9A69-83253DA518B9-459-0000010A684D3B5B_zps9efd11a8.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 3B13CA6D-4811-4984-9A69-83253DA518B9-459-0000010A684D3B5B_zps9efd11a8.jpg"></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/0367B40B-36E5-472C-9884-C8BED7E0C3B3-459-0000010A599F95F6_zps391bbfef.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/0367B40B-36E5-472C-9884-C8BED7E0C3B3-459-0000010A599F95F6_zps391bbfef.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 0367B40B-36E5-472C-9884-C8BED7E0C3B3-459-0000010A599F95F6_zps391bbfef.jpg"></a>

Albertan_Reef
07/21/2017, 12:45 PM
I wouldn't use epoxy paint. I would use two part epoxy and get it over multiple layers (clear bubbles) to 1/8" thick, preferably 1/4"

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/3B13CA6D-4811-4984-9A69-83253DA518B9-459-0000010A684D3B5B_zps9efd11a8.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/3B13CA6D-4811-4984-9A69-83253DA518B9-459-0000010A684D3B5B_zps9efd11a8.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 3B13CA6D-4811-4984-9A69-83253DA518B9-459-0000010A684D3B5B_zps9efd11a8.jpg"></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/0367B40B-36E5-472C-9884-C8BED7E0C3B3-459-0000010A599F95F6_zps391bbfef.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/0367B40B-36E5-472C-9884-C8BED7E0C3B3-459-0000010A599F95F6_zps391bbfef.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 0367B40B-36E5-472C-9884-C8BED7E0C3B3-459-0000010A599F95F6_zps391bbfef.jpg"></a>I like that idea, but im leaning more towards the pond liner. Maybe epoxy and fiber glass for the seams?

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karimwassef
07/21/2017, 12:52 PM
Pond liner won't last. Same for all rubbers.

I'll have to find the thread where a buddy tried and ended up having to take the tank down after a year.

I didn't use fiberglass.. just epoxy and I'm good to go on year 4.5 now. Only thing I would have done differently is coat more on the edges. My own rough handling has left gouges in the lip and edges.. not down to the wood but I wish I had given myself more margin there.

The inside is perfect.. the outside wood is in poor shape due to floods, etc.. still holding but if it does fail, it'll be from the outside in, not inside out.

Albertan_Reef
07/21/2017, 12:55 PM
Pond liner won't last. Same for all rubbers.

I'll have to find the thread where a buddy tried and ended up having to take the tank down after a year.

I didn't use fiberglass.. just epoxy and I'm good to go on year 4.5 now. Only thing I would have done differently is coat more on the edges. My own rough handling has left gouges in the lip and edges.. not down to the wood but I wish I had given myself more margin there.

The inside is perfect.. the outside wood is in poor shape due to floods, etc.. still holding but if it does fail, it'll be from the outside in, not inside out.Thanks for the insite. Guess its back to planning.

If a sheet of glass the size i need is only $100, maybe itll be cheaper to just build the whole tank in glass.

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karimwassef
07/21/2017, 12:56 PM
24" x 24" x 72" sump = 180 gallon

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/null_zps785da34a.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/null_zps785da34a.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo null_zps785da34a.jpg"></a>

Love the look of submerged plywood

Albertan_Reef
07/21/2017, 12:57 PM
24" x 24" x 72" sump = 180 gallon

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/null_zps785da34a.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/null_zps785da34a.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo null_zps785da34a.jpg"></a>

Love the look of submerged plywoodDefinitley looks good! How much appoxy did you use roughly.

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karimwassef
07/21/2017, 12:57 PM
Thanks for the insite. Guess its back to planning.

If a sheet of glass the size i need is only $100, maybe itll be cheaper to just build the whole tank in glass.

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Why? Plywood will allow you to go deeper and wider

Albertan_Reef
07/21/2017, 01:00 PM
Why? Plywood will allow you to go deeper and widerIt will allow me to go wider and longer, but, depending on how much the 2 part epoxy costs, then the cost of an all glass may be close to the same.

I agree though , i want more of a square tank. Our basement rec room has the perfect cut out in it, thats 7 feet wide, 4 feet deep..

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karimwassef
07/21/2017, 02:32 PM
I used 3/4 of the bottles you see

Albertan_Reef
07/21/2017, 02:35 PM
I used 3/4 of the bottles you seeAwesome. Thanks for the reply.

Tank build quoted me $3000 for a 72x24x30 tank.

Looks like im going ply wood

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karimwassef
07/21/2017, 02:58 PM
Determine the volume you need by calculating the area you need in square inches and x 0.5"... then divide by 231... that tell you the approximate gallons you'll need for yours. I assume 50% solids in the liquids to get to 25" thickness.

Then add the two bottles volume and that'll tell you if you have enough.

ca1ore
07/21/2017, 08:12 PM
I wouldn't use epoxy paint. I would use two part epoxy and get it over multiple layers (clear bubbles) to 1/8" thick, preferably 1/4"

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/3B13CA6D-4811-4984-9A69-83253DA518B9-459-0000010A684D3B5B_zps9efd11a8.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/3B13CA6D-4811-4984-9A69-83253DA518B9-459-0000010A684D3B5B_zps9efd11a8.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 3B13CA6D-4811-4984-9A69-83253DA518B9-459-0000010A684D3B5B_zps9efd11a8.jpg"></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/0367B40B-36E5-472C-9884-C8BED7E0C3B3-459-0000010A599F95F6_zps391bbfef.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/0367B40B-36E5-472C-9884-C8BED7E0C3B3-459-0000010A599F95F6_zps391bbfef.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 0367B40B-36E5-472C-9884-C8BED7E0C3B3-459-0000010A599F95F6_zps391bbfef.jpg"></a>

Perhaps not, though the ATO reservoir I made at the same time just got retired last month. 25 years, not too bad.

chriscobb
07/21/2017, 08:25 PM
Can't go wrong with 2 part epoxy....

der_wille_zur_macht
07/21/2017, 08:36 PM
It's no surprise the "King" used 12mm glass on a tank that tall. He seems to be on the verge of disaster in many of his projects that are referenced in these forums.

If you do some research, the typical build is more in line with what the formulas on the last page suggest. I would stay with 15mm on a tank that size, minimum. I did 12mm on my 24" deep 360g, for reference. Going up a thickness in the glass won't add a ton to the overall budget on a tank like this and there's really no penalty other than the slight increase in cost. I know this sounds trite, but you really don't want to be cutting corners when you're building something this large. You need to be dead sure you're doing things correctly and you understand what you're doing. None of this is hard work by any means but it IS very critical work.

I used the US Composites products karimwassef showed. Honestly, if you're going to glass and epoxy the seams/corners, you might as well just do the whole tank.

Go find some wood tank discussions and get some feedback. There's a monsterfishkeepers forum out on the web that has a whole lot of very creative people building giant tanks, including lots of wood tanks. IMHO it pays to get lots of opinions and try to understand what works and what doesn't in the broad sense, versus just following any single person's advice.

karimwassef
07/21/2017, 10:00 PM
I think if you're making a reservoir that will never have rocks or structures in it, pondliner may be ok. But if you're going to use it in a high "traffic" area - I would go 2 part.

Albertan_Reef
07/21/2017, 10:04 PM
It's no surprise the "King" used 12mm glass on a tank that tall. He seems to be on the verge of disaster in many of his projects that are referenced in these forums.

If you do some research, the typical build is more in line with what the formulas on the last page suggest. I would stay with 15mm on a tank that size, minimum. I did 12mm on my 24" deep 360g, for reference. Going up a thickness in the glass won't add a ton to the overall budget on a tank like this and there's really no penalty other than the slight increase in cost. I know this sounds trite, but you really don't want to be cutting corners when you're building something this large. You need to be dead sure you're doing things correctly and you understand what you're doing. None of this is hard work by any means but it IS very critical work.

I used the US Composites products karimwassef showed. Honestly, if you're going to glass and epoxy the seams/corners, you might as well just do the whole tank.

Go find some wood tank discussions and get some feedback. There's a monsterfishkeepers forum out on the web that has a whole lot of very creative people building giant tanks, including lots of wood tanks. IMHO it pays to get lots of opinions and try to understand what works and what doesn't in the broad sense, versus just following any single person's advice.Thanks for the input. Thats why i made this post to get nore opinions instead of going out, buying the materials and having a mess in my basement. 15 mm glass isnt much more either.

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Clowning_Around
07/22/2017, 06:15 AM
Go find some wood tank discussions and get some feedback. There's a monsterfishkeepers forum out on the web that has a whole lot of very creative people building giant tanks, including lots of wood tanks. IMHO it pays to get lots of opinions and try to understand what works and what doesn't in the broad sense, versus just following any single person's advice.

^^ this



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