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View Full Version : SPS is tanking. Got my Triton test back. Help!


deputydog95
07/28/2017, 10:51 AM
So what do you guys think? What's the best to fix all this in short order?


We detected elements in your water that can be harmful for your tank.
More information about each element is listed below.

We recommend to carry out 6 x 15% water changes with TRITON PURE 2.0 or other recommended salt, spread over 6 weeks.

High levels of Tin have been found in your system.

As Tin can be very dangerous to you aquarium you should first try to find the contamination source. To help you in finding the source of error, we have listed the most common sources of tin (sorted in descending order of frequency):

1. Contaminated trace elements
2. Metals near or in the aquarium (as rusty clamps or screws)
3. Contaminated salts

High levels of Aluminium have been found in your system.

As high levels of Aluminium can be dangerous to your aquarium you should try to find the contamination. To assist you in finding the source of error, we have listed them the most common sources of aluminium (sorted in descending order of frequency):

1. Aluminium based Phosphate remover
2. Zeolite
3. Metals in water

Use ROWAphos phosphate remover media to remove the aluminium.

Your Potassium levels are too high.

Check for sources of contamination. To help you in your search for the source of error, we have listed the most common potassium sources (sorted in descending order of frequency):

1. Trace element overdose / contamination
2. Bacterial Products
3. Contaminated salts

If there are problems in the aquarium, such as Bacterial bloom, we recommend a water change weekly of 15% for 4 weeks, with TRITON PURE 2.0 salt or Tropic Marin Pro Reef.

Your Bromine levels are slightly low.

WARNING! Dosage only to be carried out by advanced reef keepers.

Due to the possible hazardous nature of dosing Bromine the dosage amounts include a safety factor to ensure that the risk of overdose is reduced. This may result in further dosing being required with subsequent ICP testing.

Please follow the directions on the Dose tab.

Your Boron levels are too high.
Please try to find the reason for the contamination, these are the most common case:

1. Trace mineral overdose or contamination

Your Lithium levels are too high.

Check for possible contamination source. To help you in your search for the source of error, we have listed them the most common lithium sources (sorted in descending order of frequency):

1. Trace element overdose / contamination
2. Contaminated salts / contaminated magnesium salts
3. Artificial Rock/ Reef ceramics
4. Food

Your Molybdenum levels are too high. This can lead to severe bacterial growth (Cyano, etc.).

Check for possible contamination source. To assist you in finding the source of error, we have listed them the most common sources of molybdenum (sorted in descending order of frequency):

1. Trace element overdose / contamination
2. Food
3. Contaminated salts

deputydog95
07/28/2017, 11:02 AM
To supplement the information in the report.

I'm using RODI water. TDS is 7 coming out of the RO and there's fresh resin so I'm assuming it's zero or close after the DI.

Water changes are done bi weekly using Fritz salt.

I'm using Seachem A & B and ME Coral Mg.

I did have a lettuce magnet burst recently from rust but that was well over a month ago.

I am using 3 8x8 Marine Pure blocks in the sump. I believe they are some sort of ceramic.

Rock is natural, so is the gravel.

Thoughts?

I dose Aquavitro fuel every few days and that's about it.

I also add reef chili, ME coral food, etc a few times a week. Nothing out of the ordinary there.....

Thoughts?

stryker
07/28/2017, 11:32 AM
How long have you been using fritz salt and what salt where you using before? Has anything else changed in your system around the time that problems started? Also, what kind of problems are you seeing with sps?


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jda
07/28/2017, 12:05 PM
Water changes with a high quality salt is probably the best thing. Tropic Marin or IO are the best, IMO, and known for being on the money with parameters and trace elements. If you want to use some IO, let me know and I will give you my recipe for perfect (for me) SPS water.

There are salts that have abnormally high amounts of trace metals and even deadly levels in some batches, but never have heard this about Fritz. In the past, Coralife and Kent have had serious issues with batches.

Some polyfilter will help with some metals too. So can activated carbon and skimming.

I don't think that anything residual from a lettuce magnet could be the problem... most of those metals would be gone by now or bound to the aragonite.

jda
07/28/2017, 12:07 PM
BTW - your corals don't need Fuel, so you can eliminate that if you want.

bif24701
07/28/2017, 08:11 PM
To supplement the information in the report.

I'm using RODI water. TDS is 7 coming out of the RO and there's fresh resin so I'm assuming it's zero or close after the DI.

Water changes are done bi weekly using Fritz salt.

I'm using Seachem A & B and ME Coral Mg.

I did have a lettuce magnet burst recently from rust but that was well over a month ago.

I am using 3 8x8 Marine Pure blocks in the sump. I believe they are some sort of ceramic.

Rock is natural, so is the gravel.

Thoughts?

I dose Aquavitro fuel every few days and that's about it.

I also add reef chili, ME coral food, etc a few times a week. Nothing out of the ordinary there.....

Thoughts?



You first need to ensure that your TDS is 000. That's important.


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deputydog95
07/29/2017, 12:04 PM
How long have you been using fritz salt and what salt where you using before? Has anything else changed in your system around the time that problems started? Also, what kind of problems are you seeing with sps?


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Been using the Fritz for about 6 months. But have been having problems with base up RTN for a long time now. The tank is about 1.5 years old and it started at the 6 month mark. Now it's slowed to base up STN. All sorts of frags are completely nuked at this point.

Water changes with a high quality salt is probably the best thing. Tropic Marin or IO are the best, IMO, and known for being on the money with parameters and trace elements. If you want to use some IO, let me know and I will give you my recipe for perfect (for me) SPS water.

There are salts that have abnormally high amounts of trace metals and even deadly levels in some batches, but never have heard this about Fritz. In the past, Coralife and Kent have had serious issues with batches.

Some polyfilter will help with some metals too. So can activated carbon and skimming.

I don't think that anything residual from a lettuce magnet could be the problem... most of those metals would be gone by now or bound to the aragonite.

This magnet was so rotted that it plumped the casing splitting it. Didn't even notice till I saw the coating over the magnet had opened up. Did a little research and I'm not the only one that had the same problem with the Two Little Fishes lettuce magnet. Worst part is I wasn't even using it so had no reason to have it in there. There are suspicions in other threads that there are all sorts of heavy metals associated with magnet production.

I have been running a polyfilter for about a month or so since discovering the magnet. Never changed colors for heavy metals but clearly, the Triton test is showing this.

Fritz salt is "supposed" be super consistent and a premium reef salt.... Supposed to be :)

You first need to ensure that your TDS is 000. That's important.


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It's 7 after the RO and it gets put through a DI with constantly updated DI resin. I have to assume it's got to be zero but not a bad idea to check it though. Maybe I'll see if I can pick up a cheap handheld to check the output after the DI. Just to be sure.

deputydog95
07/29/2017, 12:04 PM
Unwanted heavy metals (115 Gallons)

Element Analysis Setpoint Deviation Warning lamp
Hg 0 g/l 0,1 g/l -0.10

Se 0 g/l 0,1 g/l -0.10

Cd 0 g/l 0,1 g/l -0.10

Sn 8.325 g/l 0,1 g/l 8.23

Sb 0 g/l 0,1 g/l -0.10

As 0 g/l 0,1 g/l -0.10

Al 173 g/l 2 g/l 171.00

Pb 0 g/l 0,1 g/l -0.10

Ti 0 g/l 0,1 g/l -0.10

Cu 0 g/l 0.1 g/l -0.10

La 0 g/l 0.1 g/l -0.10

Sc 0 g/l 0.1 g/l -0.10

W 0 g/l 0.1 g/l -0.10

Macro-Elements (115 Gallons)

Element Analysis Setpoint Deviation Warning lamp
Na 10552 mg/l 10700 mg/l -148.00

Ca 472 mg/l 440 mg/l 32.00

Mg 1324 mg/l 1370 mg/l -46.00

K 499 mg/l 400 mg/l 99.00

Br 45 mg/l 62 mg/l -17.00

B 8.389 mg/l 4,5 mg/l 3.89

Sr 8.142 mg/l 8 mg/l 0.14

S 851 mg/l 900 mg/l -49.00

Li-Group (115 Gallons)

Element Analysis Setpoint Deviation Warning lamp
Li 551 g/l 200 g/l 351.00

Ni 0 g/l 5 g/l -5.00

Mo 27 g/l 12 g/l 15.00

I-Group (115 Gallons)

Element Analysis Setpoint Deviation Warning lamp
V 0 g/l 1,2 g/l -1.20

Zn 0 g/l 4 g/l -4.00

Mn 0 g/l 2 g/l -2.00

I 27 g/l 60 g/l -33.00

Fe-Group (115 Gallons)

Element Analysis Setpoint Deviation Warning lamp
Cr 0 g/l 0,1 g/l -0.10

Co 0 g/l 0,1 g/l -0.10

Fe 0 g/l 0,1 g/l -0.10

Ba-Group (115 Gallons)

Element Analysis Setpoint Deviation Warning lamp
Ba 12 g/l 10 g/l 2.00

Be 0 g/l 0,1 g/l -0.10

Si-Group (115 Gallons)

Element Analysis Setpoint Deviation Warning lamp
Si 62 g/l 100 g/l -38.00

Nutrient-Group (115 Gallons)

Element Analysis Setpoint Deviation Warning lamp
P 9.022 g/l 6 g/l 3.02

PO4 0.02760732 mg/l 0.01836 mg/l 0.010

deputydog95
07/29/2017, 12:05 PM
That didn't copy paste very well....

lynchmob3000
07/29/2017, 07:13 PM
My triton tests are usually comparable with the tin and aluminum and crazy high lithium but I have none of these issues. I also use fritz and love it


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lynchmob3000
07/29/2017, 07:23 PM
I'd carry out larger water changes week after week and see if you can find a happy place.

One thing I'd make sure to double check is your salinity and maybe triple check and calibrate to a worth stores meter. This can cause these issues and usually it's because a fresh mix of 1.026 could really be 1.028 which, I've never seen sps enjoy.



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deputydog95
07/30/2017, 10:46 AM
My triton tests are usually comparable with the tin and aluminum and crazy high lithium but I have none of these issues. I also use fritz and love it


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Interesting...

Did you not try to do anything to correct the heavy metals in your tank?

I'd carry out larger water changes week after week and see if you can find a happy place.

One thing I'd make sure to double check is your salinity and maybe triple check and calibrate to a worth stores meter. This can cause these issues and usually it's because a fresh mix of 1.026 could really be 1.028 which, I've never seen sps enjoy.



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I use a Milwaukee digital gauge which is calibrated. I also have my LFS servicing the tank in between so they're always checking behind me and we get comparable readings.

deputydog95
07/30/2017, 10:48 AM
One interesting thing from the test was that I took Ca and Alk measurements at the same time I collected my Triton sample. Figured it would be a good opp to see how accurate my Hannah checkers are.

I was disappointed to find out Triton doesn't check for Alk... But I came in at around 485 on my Hannah and Triton came in at 475. Pretty damn close. I'm impressed. I do take my time using the Hannah meters and am ultra specific with the process. So it's not any quicker than using traditional testing. However, I do enjoy getting a digital reading that I'm confident is fairly accurate now.

deputydog95
07/30/2017, 10:55 AM
So yesterday I pulled out all the marine pure blocks since Triton said artificial rocks/ceramics could be a cause. I had one 8x2 and one 8x4 block I was setting my skimmer on. Thought I was being slick. Since the marine pure is ceramic, I yanked them and bought an acrylic viewer to use as a skimmer stand. So we'll see what that does.

I had a poly filter in there for about 6 weeks. It was really dark brown at this point so I yanked it. I figured if I'm having issues beyond a normal tank it's probably fairly saturated at this point and I didn't want it to start leaching anything back.

LFS suggested chemi pure blue. So I added a 75 gallon size to the sump... Didn't want to add too much as it's my understanding that it's a fairly aggressive carbon/media and will strip the water of bad stuff, as well as stuff you want.

I also have some rowaphos on standby as Triton says that will get rid of the aluminum. I didn't want to have the rowa and the CP Blue in there at the same time. Not sure what kind of weird chemical reaction it may or may not have and it might strip the water too quickly.

Today I'll go back and do a 10% water change and keep repeating that weekly for the next month.

I'm also going to change the TDS pickup from input and RO output to RO output and DI output. Now that I'm thinking about it, doesn't really matter what the input is... But I do need to make sure it's zero on the DI out.

Appreciate all the feedback. Hopefully I can get this tank on the road to recovery.

Wiskey
07/30/2017, 11:13 AM
I'm not totally sure they meant that Rawaphos would remove aluminum, I think they meant that you should use Rawaphos (iron based P04 remover) instead of an Aluminum based PO4 remover to reduce phosphates and stop AL from leching into the tank. In your case though I don't think you were using one.

Whiskey

jda
07/30/2017, 11:23 AM
There was a thread that I was reading on the other forum about cheap PVC and plastics leaking tin and aluminum in ionized form that looks like white powder. These came from both pipes and cheap Chinese flow pumps and heaters.

Salt mix could also be the cause. Noboby ever advertises their salt mix sucks and everybody says that theirs is the best, but there is a reason that the vast majority of the top-tier tanks use IO or TM salt.

GFO can bind some metals in some of their forms.

deputydog95
07/30/2017, 12:02 PM
I'm not totally sure they meant that Rawaphos would remove aluminum, I think they meant that you should use Rawaphos (iron based P04 remover) instead of an Aluminum based PO4 remover to reduce phosphates and stop AL from leching into the tank. In your case though I don't think you were using one.

Whiskey

No, I wasn't. Just the poly filter.

This is what the report said about the aluminum and how they suggest correcting it:


High levels of Aluminium have been found in your system.

As high levels of Aluminium can be dangerous to your aquarium you should try to find the contamination. To assist you in finding the source of error, we have listed them the most common sources of aluminium (sorted in descending order of frequency):

1. Aluminium based Phosphate remover
2. Zeolite
3. Metals in water

Use ROWAphos phosphate remover media to remove the aluminium.

miston
11/12/2017, 10:42 AM
Any updates?

deputydog95
11/13/2017, 04:26 PM
I pulled out my Neotherm heater and the tank improved instantly. The heater is covered in coralline/etc so I have not had a chance to inspect it very closely.

However, I saw a drastic improvement after yanking it. I was concerned with all the posts about them splitting and poisoning the tank so I swapped it for a Jaeger.

Everything is doing so much better now. Coincidence, maybe?

I will be doing a vinegar soak on my circ pumps soon. I will probably throw the heaters in too to see if maybe they were cracked and compromised.

While I liked the Triton test, it was slow and expensive.

I bought two ICP analysis and am going to give them a whirl this time to see how they read.

So far so good now. Fingers crossed!

jda
11/13/2017, 04:38 PM
Good to hear. What is it that the Neotherms are rumored to be doing? Heavy metals? Stray voltage?

deputydog95
11/13/2017, 04:48 PM
Essentially splitting open and releasing piles of toxic stuff into the tank, turning it black. Not good...

Here'a giant thread on the topic:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2376715

I've been very pleased with my Jaeger so far, hooked into my Apex. I think it was only like $35 and runs like a champ.

Cheapreef
11/13/2017, 05:08 PM
I pulled out my Neotherm heater and the tank improved instantly.

So far so good now. Fingers crossed!

Yeah those Neotherm heaters are scary, I read that thread awhile back crazy they still sell.
Great to hear your tank is back on track. :thumbsup:

Germanwerks
11/15/2017, 11:05 PM
Im surprised no one is blaming the marine pure blocks as the aluminum source. Thats kind of the bad rap those blocks had got.

pisanoal
11/16/2017, 08:26 AM
Has anyone ever nailed down the elevated aluminum from them is a problem? Seems lots of tanks use them and find elevated aluminum, but don't report issues from it.

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deputydog95
11/16/2017, 11:10 PM
Im surprised no one is blaming the marine pure blocks as the aluminum source. Thats kind of the bad rap those blocks had got.

I yanked them as a precautionary measure. I thought it was a good idea at the time as they make a great skimmer stand, but I pulled anything that was a "foreign" type object out of the system to rule out any root causes.

I'm way overdue for another lab test.