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andywar
08/02/2017, 02:35 PM
Hi all,

My Ph is consistently below 7.90 during all day and below 7.7 at night according to APEX probe (recently calibrated), while Alkalinity is 12.6

And I can understand why this is happening.

I already have a CO2 scrubber running into the Skimmer air line.
Already tried opening windows which did not have any effect.

I make 20% water changes every 2 weeks.
Using Redsea Coral Pro salt.

Don't want to use a buffer as my Kh is already very high.

Any suggestions, please?

It's an LPS tank with anemones.
Salinity 34.4
Calcium 450
Nitrate 2
Phosphates 0.02
Ammonia 0
Also running Carbon and GFO in reactor

Thanks in advance

bertoni
08/02/2017, 03:03 PM
I'd get a second opinion on the alkalinity kit and the pH meter. Measurement problems are fairly common. That said, that pH range is in line with a lot of other posts. I'd check that the skimmer is working well, and check for surface films on the water. Those problems are rare, but the check takes about a minute.

How long did you leave the windows open? It could take least three hours for the pH to rise to a new equilibrium. Is there plenty of air movement around the tank?

andywar
08/02/2017, 03:09 PM
I'd get a second opinion on the alkalinity kit and the pH meter. Measurement problems are fairly common. That said, that pH range is in line with a lot of other posts. I'd check that the skimmer is working well, and check for surface films on the water. Those problems are rare, but the check takes about a minute.

How long did you leave the windows open? It could take least three hours for the pH to rise to a new equilibrium. Is there plenty of air movement around the tank?

The test kit for Alk is Red Sea, and I used 2 different ones (marine, and the reef one). The Ph comes from the APEX probe that I've calibrated twice in the last 2 weeks.

The skimmer seems working well - lots of foam, bubbles and very dark matter.

I left the windows open for the whole night, and then during the day for over 4 hours.

Its an open house concept and the tank in the middle of the main room there is a central air pumping new air into the house all day or circulating it.

I already ran a direct line from the AC vent to the CO2 scrubber intake and it did not have any effect...

Really strange...

outssider
08/02/2017, 04:03 PM
get a hold of a test kit and check ph....since ph is a function of co2, your ph numbers are unreasonably low given what you've told us you've done to correct it. I suspect a problem with the probe/apex

andywar
08/02/2017, 04:11 PM
get a hold of a test kit and check ph....since ph is a function of co2, your ph numbers are unreasonably low given what you've told us you've done to correct it. I suspect a problem with the probe/apexI have a Redsea test, it reads 8.0 a bit higher, but still low...

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andywar
08/02/2017, 04:15 PM
I have a Redsea test, it reads 8.0 a bit higher, but still low...

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk Now Apex reads 7.5

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karimwassef
08/02/2017, 05:08 PM
Apex probe is busted.

andywar
08/02/2017, 05:15 PM
Apex probe is busted.Good point, that is exactly what I was thinking. Contacted APEX, and made me dip the probe in 7 & 10 solution. Readings in solutions are close to 7 & 10. Hence is not the probe....

Still looking.

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andywar
08/02/2017, 05:17 PM
get a hold of a test kit and check ph....since ph is a function of co2, your ph numbers are unreasonably low given what you've told us you've done to correct it. I suspect a problem with the probe/apexGood point, that is exactly what I was thinking. Contacted APEX, and made me dip the probe in 7 & 10 solution. Readings in solutions are close to 7 & 10. Hence is not the probe....


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andywar
08/02/2017, 05:21 PM
I'm going to run a line from the A/C vent to skimmer directly and see how it goes.

I tried this before but ran the line to the CO2 scrubber, this didn't work.

I also got a small pump and air stone to run the aeration test.

Any other ideas are welcome and thanks so much for the replies.

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karimwassef
08/02/2017, 05:26 PM
When you dip it in the solution, you're electrically disconnected from any potential in the tank or wiring that could influence the reading of a bad probe.

Take a cup of tank water and put the probe in it - far from the tank.

If your pH was really 7.5, you'd see it in the life in your tank.

andywar
08/02/2017, 05:40 PM
When you dip it in the solution, you're electrically disconnected from any potential in the tank or wiring that could influence the reading of a bad probe.

Take a cup of tank water and put the probe in it - far from the tank.

If your pH was really 7.5, you'd see it in the life in your tank. Good point, thanks. I'll do it.

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andywar
08/02/2017, 06:30 PM
When you dip it in the solution, you're electrically disconnected from any potential in the tank or wiring that could influence the reading of a bad probe.

Take a cup of tank water and put the probe in it - far from the tank.

If your pH was really 7.5, you'd see it in the life in your tank.It's not the probe.

In the cup it still reads 7.65, I waited over 15 min to be sure.

All fish and coral look ok. Except the newest one.

And Ca is 450, and alk 12.

This is so weird. I'm trying the window thing again.

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bertoni
08/02/2017, 09:34 PM
I would guess that the probe is bad, but there could be electrical interference on the power lines for the Apex unit, or maybe on the probe line. 7.5 is hard to believe. It's possible, but unusual. 8.0 for pH is a reasonable measurement for a tank in a house. A lot of tanks run at more like 7.8.

andywar
08/02/2017, 09:40 PM
I would guess that the probe is bad, but there could be electrical interference on the power lines for the Apex unit, or maybe on the probe line. 7.5 is hard to believe. It's possible, but unusual. 8.0 for pH is a reasonable measurement for a tank in a house. A lot of tanks run at more like 7.8.Just checked by placing the probe in a cup of tank water. It read very similar.

I just renewed the CO2 opened all the windows. I know is not an ultimate solution, just trying to figure out what is wrong.

I'm also starting to build a 2 inch pvc line to the outside. But it needs to be so long that I'm not sure it'll work...

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gprdypoo04
08/03/2017, 12:59 AM
Would it hurt to buy a second probe? Awhile ago Apex came out with a better probe.

karimwassef
08/03/2017, 06:33 AM
Just because a probe reads 7 and 10 in the cal solutions doesn't mean it's a good probe. I have two probes that calibrate perfectly but are always 0.1 apart.

They can't both be right sitting in the same water in the same location.

So probes are not always "good" even if they are calibrated.

percula99
08/03/2017, 07:01 AM
Following along as I am having all the same problems, actions and results as OP. A complete solution eludes me. I finally got my dKh down to 10.3 but Ph is always at 7.60. I use a Pinpoint Ph probe and recalibrated it. Same result. I bought a new one and calibrated it, same result, so it wasn't the probe. Salifert test kit reads 8.15. I contacted American Marine Inc. (maker of probe) and spoke with the tech who makes the calibration solution. He said the calibration solution is accurate. If I am calibrating the probe with 7 and 10 solutions, why don't I believe that over a test kit which is ball park at best.

Sorry for ranting. I don't want to hijack this thread, just sharing my similar experience.

andywar
08/03/2017, 10:17 AM
Following along as I am having all the same problems, actions and results as OP. A complete solution eludes me. I finally got my dKh down to 10.3 but Ph is always at 7.60. I use a Pinpoint Ph probe and recalibrated it. Same result. I bought a new one and calibrated it, same result, so it wasn't the probe. Salifert test kit reads 8.15. I contacted American Marine Inc. (maker of probe) and spoke with the tech who makes the calibration solution. He said the calibration solution is accurate. If I am calibrating the probe with 7 and 10 solutions, why don't I believe that over a test kit which is ball park at best.

Sorry for ranting. I don't want to hijack this thread, just sharing my similar experience.Apex has told me that test kits normally read higher than probes. Somebody here recommended to test the probe in a cup of your tank water so you can eliminate any possible strain voltage. If the Ph is similar that is your Ph.

I'm going to try today the aeration test to see joe big of a problem is my CO2


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bertoni
08/03/2017, 04:33 PM
Just checked by placing the probe in a cup of tank water. It read very similar.

Did you move the monitor power lines, etc, or unplug the other equipment attached to the tank?

andywar
08/03/2017, 04:45 PM
Did you move the monitor power lines, etc, or unplug the other equipment attached to the tank?No, this this original install as is a new apex

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bertoni
08/03/2017, 05:35 PM
Okay, well, I'm not sure what's happening, but I'd try aerating a small container of tank water outside for three hours or so, and then checking the pH. If the alkalinity is in the 7-11 dKH range, the pH should be 8.3 or so.

andywar
08/03/2017, 05:41 PM
Okay, well, I'm not sure what's happening, but I'd try aerating a small container of tank water outside for three hours or so, and then checking the pH. If the alkalinity is in the 7-11 dKH range, the pH should be 8.3 or so.Exactly, good point. I'm doing this tomorrow!

And if that is the case what do you suggest i should do to aeriate the tank as a permanent solution?

I'm already running a temporary line of air from A/C vent to CO2 scrubber.

If I run a definitive line to outside air, I'm thinking a 2 inch pvc, it will have to be over 30 feet long to get outside, and not sure if the air will flow given such long distance.



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Darrell Brady
08/03/2017, 06:13 PM
I have the same problem

Darrell Brady
08/03/2017, 06:14 PM
I think it has something to do with bacteria

andywar
08/03/2017, 06:24 PM
I think it has something to do with bacteria What bacteria, have never heard that.

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bertoni
08/03/2017, 06:51 PM
And if that is the case what do you suggest i should do to aeriate the tank as a permanent solution?
You might not be able to do much that's cost-effective. An air exchanger should help, but I suspect that's a fairly expensive proposition. Scrubbing the air over the tank might help, in theory, but I'm not sure that it'd be practical.

Kadee
08/04/2017, 07:11 AM
Running an intake from your a/c vent? That will not supply fresh air as that should just be recirculated air. What kind of CO2 scrubber are you using? Is the scrubber medium exhausted? If you are using an a/c you most likely have an excess amount of CO2 built up in your house. You shouldn't have fresh air intrusion or your a/c will be working overtime. Check your scrubber. The only air going to the skimmer should be through the scrubber.

andywar
08/04/2017, 08:10 AM
Running an intake from your a/c vent? That will not supply fresh air as that should just be recirculated air. What kind of CO2 scrubber are you using? Is the scrubber medium exhausted? If you are using an a/c you most likely have an excess amount of CO2 built up in your house. You shouldn't have fresh air intrusion or your a/c will be working overtime. Check your scrubber. The only air going to the skimmer should be through the scrubber.Thanks!


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