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View Full Version : Orange Shoulder Tang -What should I treat first


Tom39
08/05/2017, 08:56 AM
Just recently a friend gave me an Orange Shoulder Tang because it was getting to big for her current tank. She had the fish for about 3 yrs and relays that she had not noticed any odd behavior or disease during that time. However, she has been known to put a fish in her tank without quarantine and has no issue with the purchase of fish from big box pet stores. As for me, I am very cautious when it comes to adding fish to my DT and have never done so without quarantining first. So the first thing I did was set up my QT and for the past 2 days that is currently where I am housing the fish. Since then I have been observing the fish and it appears to be very healthy, eats well and does not appear to be upset about it new housing arrangements.
I still want to treat and my initial thought process was to dose with copper for 2-3 weeks and do two 5-7 day treatments of PraziPro. Since I have actually never treated with copper I was wondering which I should do first, Copper or Prazi?. (One note: The reason that I have never used copper is that I usually do the TTM but because of the size of the tank and the amount of water needed for the process I am going the copper route this time.)

Any constructive guidance would be appreciated.

Thank you in advance for your help,
Tom G
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170805/144d62a22094c09bf5e84c42346651cd.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170805/8176e0d56320351bb96ac347444720b7.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170805/73b9c0f6f14913382942e66888a5d9b6.jpg

fishguy597
08/05/2017, 09:31 AM
I did cuprimine and prazi together without any issues. I also used an air stone while using prazi since it lowers the o2 in the water. Keep an eye on water parameters. High nitates do not do well with prazi. Copper will kill off some bacteria and possibly introduce ammonia. Gl

lagatbezan
08/05/2017, 11:53 AM
I have read a lot of people using both at the same time with no issue but personally I wouldn't treat with copper and just maybe observe it for a few weeks not wanting to expose a healthy fish to unnecessary poison if there are no signs of any disease. Might be worth the extra efforts of doing ttm. Congrats on the beautiful fish!

Tom39
08/05/2017, 08:33 PM
Thank you both for the advice. I will let you know how things work out.

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Tom39
08/16/2017, 04:29 PM
Well 11 days later I still have not added any copper or PraziPro to the tank. At first I wanted to see if any conditions developed like the signs of ick or something else but I haven't seen anything and the fish appears to be healthy and is eating like a pig (the down side is that this has increased my wc cycle to 2gal/day). So my questions are: Would this be an indication that the fish is not a carrier of ick or other diseases? And if it were your tank it was going in, would you treat or simply add him to the tank?

Thank you,
Tom G

Tom39
08/24/2017, 07:29 PM
Bump for advice.

21 days in quarantine and no signs of infestation or illness.

Newms118
08/24/2017, 07:34 PM
Well 11 days later I still have not added any copper or PraziPro to the tank. At first I wanted to see if any conditions developed like the signs of ick or something else but I haven't seen anything and the fish appears to be healthy and is eating like a pig (the down side is that this has increased my wc cycle to 2gal/day). So my questions are: Would this be an indication that the fish is not a carrier of ick or other diseases? And if it were your tank it was going in, would you treat or simply add him to the tank?

Thank you,
Tom G

Treat treat treat treat treat treat. Ive had ich in my DT from the very beginning and have never gotten it completely out. I keep it at back with a UV filter that at least keeps the parasite load down enough that my fish fight off the disease. But I always still see spot here or there and there is always someone flashing. Really ****es me off bc I paid a local fish store to treat with copper for me since it was my first fish, and of course they did a horrible job. Probably didnt even treat and took my money. I never went back to that store.

So dont just put it in. At least do the PP, or formalin dip before transfer to try to get anything off the fish before it goes in the DT.

Tom39
08/28/2017, 06:23 PM
So I started adding Cupramine yesterday morning and will begin the 14 day countdown tomorrow morning when I add the second half of the dose and get the copper level to 0.5 mg/l.
The OST is still eating like a pig and appears to be unaffected by the 0.25mg/l concentration of copper.

JustinM
08/29/2017, 01:45 PM
Tangs handle copper very well. Since you've already started copper, I would just treat with prazipro after the copper treatment is done.

I am being hypothetical here and assuming a worst case scenario. After the copper treatment is done, drain the qt and sterilize it in case some cysts(assuming there was ich now) had hatched after the therapeutic levels were brought down to non therapeutic. Once you've sterilized the qt, I would treat with prazipro. FWIW, if being moved to a sterile tank, 14 days of copper is enough for ich, and velvet.

Tom39
08/30/2017, 07:53 AM
Thank you for your help and advice. Would you recommend 1 or 2 weeks of Prazipro?
My initial thoughts are 1 but just recently the person that I got the fish from had an episode and lost a few fish for reasons unknown to her and I am a now erring on the side of caution.

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JustinM
08/30/2017, 04:26 PM
A full treatment of prazi takes about 2 weeks. Dose once, let it go about 5-7 days then do a water change and dose again and let it go about 5-7 days and do another water change.

Prazi is something you don't ever want to skip.

Jdub968
08/31/2017, 12:18 AM
Tangs handle copper very well. Since you've already started copper, I would just treat with prazipro after the copper treatment is done.

I am being hypothetical here and assuming a worst case scenario. After the copper treatment is done, drain the qt and sterilize it in case some cysts(assuming there was ich now) had hatched after the therapeutic levels were brought down to non therapeutic. Once you've sterilized the qt, I would treat with prazipro. FWIW, if being moved to a sterile tank, 14 days of copper is enough for ich, and velvet.

I agree with the above however keep in mind when you sterilize a tank the only proven methode is the tank must remain completely dry for min 24 hrs. Tomonts can be protected from bleach and vinagar by bio film

Jdub968
08/31/2017, 12:20 AM
I agree with the above however keep in mind when you sterilize a tank the only proven methode is the tank must remain completely dry for min 24 hrs. Tomonts can be protected from bleach and vinagar by bio film

And when using prazipro always treat twice the first dose won't kill the eggs

Tom39
08/31/2017, 06:24 AM
I agree with the above however keep in mind when you sterilize a tank the only proven methode is the tank must remain completely dry for min 24 hrs. Tomonts can be protected from bleach and vinagar by bio filmThank you for your help and advice. When I was setting up my QT I purchased 2 identical tanks. So the sanitizing of the tanks is not an issue. However, I had not purchased 2 filters or heaters. My thought was that the meds would have killed everything. To insure that all is dead, should I run the copper treatment for 3 weeks?

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Jdub968
08/31/2017, 10:19 AM
Thank you for your help and advice. When I was setting up my QT I purchased 2 identical tanks. So the sanitizing of the tanks is not an issue. However, I had not purchased 2 filters or heaters. My thought was that the meds would have killed everything. To insure that all is dead, should I run the copper treatment for 3 weeks?

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When I prophylactically treat with cu I do 2-3 weeks at .5 ppm cupramine. If I suspect any parasites I will treat for 30 days. Or the fish show a no signs of parasites and I treat it for 2-3 weeks I'll keep it in qt for at least 3 more weeks to observe it and during that time is when I run prazipro

Jdub968
08/31/2017, 10:36 AM
When I prophylactically treat with cu I do 2-3 weeks at .5 ppm cupramine. If I suspect any parasites I will treat for 30 days. Or the fish show a no signs of parasites and I treat it for 2-3 weeks I'll keep it in qt for at least 3 more weeks to observe it and during that time is when I run prazipro

I went back and looked at your picture and read the post again here's my .02
You mentioned you friend has put fish ect in her DT WITHOUT QTing this tang is very opaque in color ick would be be tough to see on and this fish could have an immunity built up to ick/velvet I would treat her minimum 3o days with cu then prazipro. Dose the cu slowly bring it up to therapeutic level over 5 days (with daily doses) this way is much easier on the fish than seachems instructions. Here's the math for your dosing (.381)x(.5)x(gallons to be treated)divided by (5)= daily dose you will need a test kit to check cu levels daily and it is not uncommon for the cu levels in the tank to fluctuate SO TEST

JustinM
08/31/2017, 11:23 AM
I agree with Jdub, 30 days of copper and prazi after should kick anything it has. Just make sure to sterilize in between so no tomonts hatch.

Definitely test daily as well because copper seems to drop as it absorbs into things. I would hate to see you get to .5 then it drops below therapeutic and you have to start over.

Tom39
08/31/2017, 06:37 PM
I am testing daily at 5:30am, both copper and ammonia. The copper levels dropped to about 0.45 on the second day but has stayed steady at 0.5 since i readjusted.
The hardest part of it all is keeping the ammonia in check. Since the fish is so large, I need to feed so much to keep it healthy, the first 2 weeks were daily water changes, mostly a gal/day but sometimes 10g at a time. But now it looks like the bio wheels and filter pads are finally working. Thank goodness!

Thank you all for your help and advice, I will keep you updated as things progress.

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Jdub968
08/31/2017, 11:49 PM
You can dose beneficial bacteria with cu. It migh help the bio filter to kick in

Tom39
09/01/2017, 08:48 AM
You can dose beneficial bacteria with cu. It migh help the bio filter to kick inThat's a good idea. Thanks!

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JustinM
09/01/2017, 01:24 PM
Just to add, searchem states that cupramine only kills about 20% of beneficial bacteria so it won't take long to get it cycled.