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dimasv
08/05/2017, 04:09 PM
Hi guys. When u get a min please help me verify my plumbing setup before i glue it all together. Any feedback is appreciated. Excuse my English in the video :-)

https://youtu.be/fDS_lSZzvMM


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170805/7e7349396ed51a03c40633938b7c6026.jpg

Lsufan
08/05/2017, 05:35 PM
I love that tank. If I ever have a custom tank made I want a notch in the glass like u have to get the water to the overflow box. The plumbing looks good to me. It does help the system if the syphon & open channel are plumbed the same way, but that's not always possible. U will want to try to get the water level inside the overflow box to the bottom part of where the 2 90's tie together on the open channel. That way u only have a small amount of water entering the open channel & it stays quiet. That is something u can play with & dial in once u get it going. If u haven't ever used a bean animal & it seems loud when u get it going, it is probably the open channel taking to much water. U can tell if it's the open channel because it will have a bunch of bubbles exiting it into the sump.

As far as the returns. It would have helped if u put the manifolds on the return that goes pretty much straight into the tank. It will work how u have it but u will probably have to close the valve on the return line that goes straight into the tank. Then leave the valve that the manifold is on fully open. By closing off the one valve it will create head pressure so it will send more water to the manifold line. How u have it plumbed the majority of the flow will be on the return that goes straight into the tank if u have both valves wide open.

I really do like to use gate valves instead of ball valves on the manifold itself if u plan on running reactors from it. Ball valves will be ok on the returns how u will be using them. I prefer a gate valve on the syphon drain. A ball valve can work but it makes it a little harder to get tuned in perfectly. Although one of my setups I use a ball valve on the syphon & it works fine. That's one of the good things about a beananimal, once u get it tuned in u don't have to touch it.

GQsmooth
08/05/2017, 05:51 PM
Looks good, but I would limit the 90 degree fittings if you could.

Also, cement isn't needed in the overflow box and your return nozzles

Full siphon should end about 1" under water

dimasv
08/05/2017, 06:10 PM
I love that tank. If I ever have a custom tank made I want a notch in the glass like u have to get the water to the overflow box. The plumbing looks good to me. It does help the system if the syphon & open channel are plumbed the same way, but that's not always possible. U will want to try to get the water level inside the overflow box to the bottom part of where the 2 90's tie together on the open channel. That way u only have a small amount of water entering the open channel & it stays quiet. That is something u can play with & dial in once u get it going. If u haven't ever used a bean animal & it seems loud when u get it going, it is probably the open channel taking to much water. U can tell if it's the open channel because it will have a bunch of bubbles exiting it into the sump.

As far as the returns. It would have helped if u put the manifolds on the return that goes pretty much straight into the tank. It will work how u have it but u will probably have to close the valve on the return line that goes straight into the tank. Then leave the valve that the manifold is on fully open. By closing off the one valve it will create head pressure so it will send more water to the manifold line. How u have it plumbed the majority of the flow will be on the return that goes straight into the tank if u have both valves wide open.

I really do like to use gate valves instead of ball valves on the manifold itself if u plan on running reactors from it. Ball valves will be ok on the returns how u will be using them. I prefer a gate valve on the syphon drain. A ball valve can work but it makes it a little harder to get tuned in perfectly. Although one of my setups I use a ball valve on the syphon & it works fine. That's one of the good things about a beananimal, once u get it tuned in u don't have to touch it.

Thank you for your feedback. As for the returns , yes I would have to close right one a bit to share the flow.

Never did bean animal setup before. Basically this is my first reef tank with sump, long long ago had a small nano but things changed a lot these days

dimasv
08/05/2017, 06:13 PM
Looks good, but I would limit the 90 degree fittings if you could.

Also, cement isn't needed in the overflow box and your return nozzles

Full siphon should end about 1" under water

So full siphon and open channel just 1 inch under the water is enough ?

Cant really do anything with 90 degree, putting 45s brings the sump right on to the floor making maintenance a bit harder.

der_wille_zur_macht
08/05/2017, 06:34 PM
You don't really need unions on the drain lines. Plumbing never really goes bad - unions only make sense on things that need maintenance, ie an external pump or hard plumbed filter, etc. If you get rid of the unions and flip the bulkheads such that the threaded ends are inside the overflow, you will buy several inches of height which might be enough to switch to 45s or spa flex so you can eliminate the horizontal runs in the drain lines.

Horizontal runs make it hard for the siphon to start reliably since air bubbles can get trapped there. It also makes it tricky to tune, since small air bubbles can accumulate there over time and throw off the valve adjustment. Sometimes, short horizontal runs will be fine, especially if you are at the upper end of the flow rate the system can handle. But if you have less flow and a longer horizontal run you will almost certainly have problems.

Speaking of valves, you really should only have one on the siphon. The open channel should never be valved. And as mentioned above, a gate valve will give better control vs the ball valve you have there now.

Lsufan
08/05/2017, 06:38 PM
If the end of the syphon is submerged more then 1" it has a hard time purging the air for the syphon to start up. So yes, no more then 1" submerged in the sump. I think u will be ok but he is right about the 45's. In your case I would have been better off putting a 45 directly under your union by the bulkhead & coming through the wall on a 45 degree angle, then another 45 to get back square with the sump. So u would have used 2-45's instead of 2- 90's. U would have had to have bigger holes in the wall so it wouldn't have looked quite as nice, but I prefer performance over looks. Like I said, I think u will be ok & it will work fine but the open channel may be slightly louder which from the looks of it shouldn't be a issue being u have a fish room. It should still be pretty quiet if it's tuned in correctly. He is right about the valve not needed on the open channel. Being u have it installed just make sure u leave it all the way open.

How do u plan on filling the the tank & sump with water? Are u going to pump it in or just fill buckets of water & dump it in?

Lsufan
08/05/2017, 06:44 PM
sorry, I double posted

dimasv
08/05/2017, 07:37 PM
You don't really need unions on the drain lines. Plumbing never really goes bad - unions only make sense on things that need maintenance, ie an external pump or hard plumbed filter, etc. If you get rid of the unions and flip the bulkheads such that the threaded ends are inside the overflow, you will buy several inches of height which might be enough to switch to 45s or spa flex so you can eliminate the horizontal runs in the drain lines.

Horizontal runs make it hard for the siphon to start reliably since air bubbles can get trapped there. It also makes it tricky to tune, since small air bubbles can accumulate there over time and throw off the valve adjustment. Sometimes, short horizontal runs will be fine, especially if you are at the upper end of the flow rate the system can handle. But if you have less flow and a longer horizontal run you will almost certainly have problems.

Speaking of valves, you really should only have one on the siphon. The open channel should never be valved. And as mentioned above, a gate valve will give better control vs the ball valve you have there now.

Thank you! I can upgrade the valve to the gate one and remove the valve for
open channel if its not needed should not be a problem. Unfortunately my bulkheads are threaded both sides :-( I will see what I can do to fit 45 degree elbow but I doubt it will work for me.

What about my other valves for return are they good or must be replaced with the better quality once or gate once ?

dimasv
08/05/2017, 07:39 PM
If the end of the syphon is submerged more then 1" it has a hard time purging the air for the syphon to start up. So yes, no more then 1" submerged in the sump. I think u will be ok but he is right about the 45's. In your case I would have been better off putting a 45 directly under your union by the bulkhead & coming through the wall on a 45 degree angle, then another 45 to get back square with the sump. So u would have used 2-45's instead of 2- 90's. U would have had to have bigger holes in the wall so it wouldn't have looked quite as nice, but I prefer performance over looks. Like I said, I think u will be ok & it will work fine but the open channel may be slightly louder which from the looks of it shouldn't be a issue being u have a fish room. It should still be pretty quiet if it's tuned in correctly. He is right about the valve not needed on the open channel. Being u have it installed just make sure u leave it all the way open.

How do u plan on filling the the tank & sump with water? Are u going to pump it in or just fill buckets of water & dump it in?

Thank you!
I have a water mixing station being also setup in the other corner of that room. Have external pumps to pump the salt water into the tank and out for water exchanges.

Will see what I can do with 45 degree, looks like I have to redo that part. Does it have to be for all the 3 pipes or full siphon is enough ?

dimasv
08/05/2017, 07:43 PM
If the end of the syphon is submerged more then 1" it has a hard time purging the air for the syphon to start up. So yes, no more then 1" submerged in the sump. I think u will be ok but he is right about the 45's. In your case I would have been better off putting a 45 directly under your union by the bulkhead & coming through the wall on a 45 degree angle, then another 45 to get back square with the sump. So u would have used 2-45's instead of 2- 90's. U would have had to have bigger holes in the wall so it wouldn't have looked quite as nice, but I prefer performance over looks. Like I said, I think u will be ok & it will work fine but the open channel may be slightly louder which from the looks of it shouldn't be a issue being u have a fish room. It should still be pretty quiet if it's tuned in correctly. He is right about the valve not needed on the open channel. Being u have it installed just make sure u leave it all the way open.

How do u plan on filling the the tank & sump with water? Are u going to pump it in or just fill buckets of water & dump it in?

Also you have mentioned that full siphon must be tuned in. I am not quite sure how does that work. I thought u just fully open the valve and thats it. What exactly should I tune in there ?

Lsufan
08/05/2017, 09:02 PM
The valve on the syphon will be partially closed. U adjust the valve so the water level in the overflow is the height u want it. So by closing the valve it will raise the water in the overflow & by opening the valve it will drop the water level inside the overflow. If u leave the valve fully opened it will more then likely kick in & out of syphon. It will syphon all the water out of the overflow box & suck air & break the syphon. Once the overflow fills again it will start a syphon again & drain all the water out of the box again & so forth. U want the open channel to only take a small amount of water. So u would tune the valve on the syphon until the water level inside the overflow box is just above the bottom of where the 2 90's connect to each other on the open channel standpipe.

When u start the system for the first time I would have the valve on the syphon fully open. Once the water gets circulating through the system slowly close the valve until the water raises in the overflow box. It will take u a few minutes to get it to not kick in & out of syphon & emptying the overflow box. At first just adjust the valve so the water stays stable inside the overflow box. Once u get that u can start fine tuning the valve to get the water level inside the overflow to where u want it. U adjust the water level to where the open channel only has a small amount of water going through it. The open channel will be loud if it has to much flow. Once u get it stabilized if it is loud & u have bubbles entering the sump from the open channel then it means u need to open the valve on the syphon a small amount to lower the water level because the open channel has to much flow.

The system will more then likely work how it is, but changing to 45's would definitely help. It will help the open channel be a little quieter also. If u do change them I would do it on both the syphon & open channel. If u change them don't use 2- 45's to make a 90. Install a 45 directly below your union & have the pvc run through the wall on a 45 degree angle. Once u get to where it needs to be put another 45 to get back square with the sump. So u would only use 2- 45's in the hole run. I would consider just cutting a square out of the wall for the plumbing if u go that route. It doesn't have to be big but big enough to run both drains through. On the open channel I would turn it to where it is aiming to the section of the sump it is entering. So instead of coming straight through the wall then having to 90 over to get it to the sump, have the 45 that is below the union facing the section of the sump it will enter. That is one good thing about the union below the bulkheads. U can turn it to where the plumbing is facing where u want it to. By doing that u can plumb it almost identical to the syphon & would only have 2- 45's in the run. Plumbing wise, the open channel & syphon need to be configured as similar to each other as possible. By doing that they will be.

It looks like it is going to be tight to try to change to 45's unless u remove the unions or lower the sump. They make a street 45 that one end will slide into the union. That will save some room & may give u just enough. At the very least I would go ahead & turn the open channel to where it's a straight shot to the sump. That will atleast eliminate one 90.

At the very least I would put a gate valve on the syphon & gate valves on the manifold. U can get away with the ball valves everywhere else.

dimasv
08/06/2017, 09:13 AM
The valve on the syphon will be partially closed. U adjust the valve so the water level in the overflow is the height u want it. So by closing the valve it will raise the water in the overflow & by opening the valve it will drop the water level inside the overflow. If u leave the valve fully opened it will more then likely kick in & out of syphon. It will syphon all the water out of the overflow box & suck air & break the syphon. Once the overflow fills again it will start a syphon again & drain all the water out of the box again & so forth. U want the open channel to only take a small amount of water. So u would tune the valve on the syphon until the water level inside the overflow box is just above the bottom of where the 2 90's connect to each other on the open channel standpipe.

When u start the system for the first time I would have the valve on the syphon fully open. Once the water gets circulating through the system slowly close the valve until the water raises in the overflow box. It will take u a few minutes to get it to not kick in & out of syphon & emptying the overflow box. At first just adjust the valve so the water stays stable inside the overflow box. Once u get that u can start fine tuning the valve to get the water level inside the overflow to where u want it. U adjust the water level to where the open channel only has a small amount of water going through it. The open channel will be loud if it has to much flow. Once u get it stabilized if it is loud & u have bubbles entering the sump from the open channel then it means u need to open the valve on the syphon a small amount to lower the water level because the open channel has to much flow.

The system will more then likely work how it is, but changing to 45's would definitely help. It will help the open channel be a little quieter also. If u do change them I would do it on both the syphon & open channel. If u change them don't use 2- 45's to make a 90. Install a 45 directly below your union & have the pvc run through the wall on a 45 degree angle. Once u get to where it needs to be put another 45 to get back square with the sump. So u would only use 2- 45's in the hole run. I would consider just cutting a square out of the wall for the plumbing if u go that route. It doesn't have to be big but big enough to run both drains through. On the open channel I would turn it to where it is aiming to the section of the sump it is entering. So instead of coming straight through the wall then having to 90 over to get it to the sump, have the 45 that is below the union facing the section of the sump it will enter. That is one good thing about the union below the bulkheads. U can turn it to where the plumbing is facing where u want it to. By doing that u can plumb it almost identical to the syphon & would only have 2- 45's in the run. Plumbing wise, the open channel & syphon need to be configured as similar to each other as possible. By doing that they will be.

It looks like it is going to be tight to try to change to 45's unless u remove the unions or lower the sump. They make a street 45 that one end will slide into the union. That will save some room & may give u just enough. At the very least I would go ahead & turn the open channel to where it's a straight shot to the sump. That will atleast eliminate one 90.

At the very least I would put a gate valve on the syphon & gate valves on the manifold. U can get away with the ball valves everywhere else.Suck a great explanation. Thank you! Ok so far i was able to replace 90 with 45s however what i said did not work for me as wall is thick and letting go all the way to other side with 45 degree brings it almost to middle of sump height. I am attaching a picture what i have right now. I kept 90 degree for emergency pipe. Is this fine? Also i removed valve for open channel and redo it a bit with 45s. And full siphon for now does not have valve as waiting for package. What do you think ? Should work?
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170806/806d4086294bb2fd93b1e239fdfa1a85.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170806/f476304133d99e59081ac7c90dff6eff.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170806/7da1aae168a5edaca40d70745cc328ea.jpg

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dimasv
08/06/2017, 09:17 AM
*Such instead of suck stupid phone*-)

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Joe0813
08/06/2017, 09:53 AM
i would also throw those ball valves in the trash and get good gate valves.... ive had nothing but bad luck with those. the get stuck and are very hard to turn

dimasv
08/06/2017, 10:04 AM
i would also throw those ball valves in the trash and get good gate valves.... ive had nothing but bad luck with those. the get stuck and are very hard to turnI am changind the full siphon to gate valve. Dropping all other valves on 2 other pipes. The other 3/4 valves around 30$ here plus tax. Would be too expensive right now to set them all up.

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Lsufan
08/06/2017, 02:15 PM
First off I would like to say that u did a good job setting everything up being its your first sump, but what u did with the 45's will not help. U can't replace a 90 with 2- 45's. U are essentially just making a 90. U would install only one 45 at the union & run the pvc on a 45 degree angle through the wall. Once u get through the wall u install another 45 to get back square with the sump so the pipe goes straight down to the sump. So u would only have 2 45's on the whole drain pipe. How u set it up u will have 4- 45's which is essentially the same as 2- 90's.

Without lowering your sump I don't think u will have the room to do it that way judging by your video. If that's the case & u aren't willing to lower your sump then I would just leave the syphon drain how it was with the 2- 90's. On the open channel I would try to get rid of the last 90 on the sump side. U are using it to get to the section of the sump that it enters. Instead of doing that turn the union below the bulkhead to where the first 90 is facing the section of the sump that it will enter. Then all u would have to do is have 1 more 90 where it enters the sump. Doing it that way u will only have the 2 90's like u have on the syphon. So u would be eliminating 1- 90 & 1- 45. There isn't a point in coming straight through the wall then having to 90 over to get to the sump when all u have to do is turn the union to where the pvc will have a straight shot to where it enters the sump.

As far as the valves, I would say that the syphon & the individual valves on the manifold are the ones that would really help being gate valves. The ones on your returns & water change & the one that u have feeding back to the sump will be fine being ball valves.

Lsufan
08/06/2017, 02:34 PM
Here is what I'm talking about on the 45's. U can see coming off my return pump what I mean. My open channel is the middle drain. U can see what I'm talking about when I say turn the union so the pvc has a straight shot to the sump. Sorry about the sideways pic, Photobucket has me messed up so I had to use the thumbnail which makes it sideways


377583

dimasv
08/06/2017, 04:08 PM
First off I would like to say that u did a good job setting everything up being its your first sump, but what u did with the 45's will not help. U can't replace a 90 with 2- 45's. U are essentially just making a 90. U would install only one 45 at the union & run the pvc on a 45 degree angle through the wall. Once u get through the wall u install another 45 to get back square with the sump so the pipe goes straight down to the sump. So u would only have 2 45's on the whole drain pipe. How u set it up u will have 4- 45's which is essentially the same as 2- 90's.

Without lowering your sump I don't think u will have the room to do it that way judging by your video. If that's the case & u aren't willing to lower your sump then I would just leave the syphon drain how it was with the 2- 90's. On the open channel I would try to get rid of the last 90 on the sump side. U are using it to get to the section of the sump that it enters. Instead of doing that turn the union below the bulkhead to where the first 90 is facing the section of the sump that it will enter. Then all u would have to do is have 1 more 90 where it enters the sump. Doing it that way u will only have the 2 90's like u have on the syphon. So u would be eliminating 1- 90 & 1- 45. There isn't a point in coming straight through the wall then having to 90 over to get to the sump when all u have to do is turn the union to where the pvc will have a straight shot to where it enters the sump.

As far as the valves, I would say that the syphon & the individual valves on the manifold are the ones that would really help being gate valves. The ones on your returns & water change & the one that u have feeding back to the sump will be fine being ball valves.Thanks again for your great help. I will see what i can do to the open channel. As of full siphon. Yes the way u see second 45 ends is the lowest point i cant go any farther down without lowering the sump. Building new stand would rather avoid if possible:-) as for ful siphon two 45s. U said change back to 90. Is it better with one 90? I thought two 45s is better in this case no?

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dimasv
08/06/2017, 04:50 PM
Here is what I'm talking about on the 45's. U can see coming off my return pump what I mean. My open channel is the middle drain. U can see what I'm talking about when I say turn the union so the pvc has a straight shot to the sump. Sorry about the sideways pic, Photobucket has me messed up so I had to use the thumbnail which makes it sideways


377583Ok tried to set it up and stud got on the way right where i need it basically making me go diagonally to sump impossible.

Is that really bad if i go with the current setup for open channel.basically having three 90s instead of two?

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Lsufan
08/06/2017, 05:51 PM
Like I said, I think it will work how it is but the open channel will not be as quiet as it would without the 90's. I know it's hard to see but if u look at my picture coming from my return pump is what I meant about how to use the 45's. Imagine that the back of my stand is your wall. I used a 45 to get out of the back of the stand with the pvc running on a 45 degree angle. Then once I got past the stand I used another 45 to get back square with everything. U basically used a 90 where I have the 45's & 90's are twice the head loss as a 45. I tried explaining it but u misunderstood what I meant. I should have sent the picture sooner so u could see what I was talking about.

I would just leave the syphon how it is if it works hieght wise to get to your sump. Using 2- 45's like u did is basically making a 90 so it won't make much of a difference, but it may help a small amount how u have it with the 45's because that makes it more of a sweeping 90.

The 90's may make the syphon a little harder to purge the air out so the syphon can kick in. So make sure u only submerge the outlets on the syphon & open channel 1/2" to 1" into the sump. The deeper the outlet is the harder it makes it to purge the air out of the plumbing. Being u have the 90's u will already be making it a little more difficult so u don't want to make it even worse by having the outlet submerged to much

dimasv
08/06/2017, 06:35 PM
Like I said, I think it will work how it is but the open channel will not be as quiet as it would without the 90's. I know it's hard to see but if u look at my picture coming from my return pump is what I meant about how to use the 45's. Imagine that the back of my stand is your wall. I used a 45 to get out of the back of the stand with the pvc running on a 45 degree angle. Then once I got past the stand I used another 45 to get back square with everything. U basically used a 90 where I have the 45's & 90's are twice the head loss as a 45. I tried explaining it but u misunderstood what I meant. I should have sent the picture sooner so u could see what I was talking about.

I would just leave the syphon how it is if it works hieght wise to get to your sump. Using 2- 45's like u did is basically making a 90 so it won't make much of a difference, but it may help a small amount how u have it with the 45's because that makes it more of a sweeping 90.

The 90's may make the syphon a little harder to purge the air out so the syphon can kick in. So make sure u only submerge the outlets on the syphon & open channel 1/2" to 1" into the sump. The deeper the outlet is the harder it makes it to purge the air out of the plumbing. Being u have the 90's u will already be making it a little more difficult so u don't want to make it even worse by having the outlet submerged to muchI think looking at your pic i got it exactly whaT u mean. I just tried it and issue i have is when right after the union i turn 90 degree elbow to enter the wall at about 30 to 45 degree to get to sump without more elbows i hit the stud in the wall that makes it impossible to go as u have on pic.

So to keep it short. I will follow your advise and jave two 45s for open ch and siphon. And let them enter my sump with another 90 or two 45s if possible. I will add one more 90 or 45 if could to open ch to reach sump entry area. I will keep emergency as it is now with two 90s.

Waiting for gate valve for siphon and i should be good to glue finally. Thanks a lot really appreciate your help. Will keep u posted on progress

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Lsufan
08/06/2017, 08:46 PM
I dont know if u have done much plumbing before, but be careful not to end up short on your pvc when u glue everything together. When u dry fit like u have it now the pvc usually doesn't slide all the way into the fittings. When u glue them they will slide all the way into the fitting & may end up causing u to be short. What I usually do is measure inbetween the 2 fittings that u will glue & just add however far it goes into the fittings to the measurement.

On 1" fittings the pvc usually slides into the fitting 1". On 3/4" fittings it usually slides in 3/4". As a example, if u have 1" plumbing & u have 2 fittings dry fitted & u measure inbetween the two fittings & u have 5", make sure the pvc is cut at 7" so when it slides all the way into the 2 fittings u don't end up short.

Johnsreefer
08/07/2017, 07:05 AM
Where did you get the red pvc. Looks sharp!

dimasv
08/07/2017, 07:17 AM
I dont know if u have done much plumbing before, but be careful not to end up short on your pvc when u glue everything together. When u dry fit like u have it now the pvc usually doesn't slide all the way into the fittings. When u glue them they will slide all the way into the fitting & may end up causing u to be short. What I usually do is measure inbetween the 2 fittings that u will glue & just add however far it goes into the fittings to the measurement.

On 1" fittings the pvc usually slides into the fitting 1". On 3/4" fittings it usually slides in 3/4". As a example, if u have 1" plumbing & u have 2 fittings dry fitted & u measure inbetween the two fittings & u have 5", make sure the pvc is cut at 7" so when it slides all the way into the 2 fittings u don't end up short.

Thanks for the tip

dimasv
08/07/2017, 07:17 AM
Where did you get the red pvc. Looks sharp!

bulk reef supply

dimasv
08/17/2017, 07:13 PM
Finally plumbing for tank is done. Still working on plumbing to deliver water after that can do leak test. I used silicone on all the bulkheads. Replaced main valves with gate valves. Hopefully it will all work out.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170818/ae908a00b2136a8c99963ec569b19b43.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170818/c8e54b077d81a91128bc97b7f75a351b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170818/2c67e24dd1f5bdc896eea801626059e0.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170818/4770127a2fed7e7679989aad2b5c8b99.jpg

fishyguy7
08/18/2017, 06:01 AM
You said you used silicone on the bulkheads. Do you mean silicone oring lubricant or silicone adhesive ? Plumbing looks great !!! Good luck with the leak test !


Finally plumbing for tank is done. Still working on plumbing to deliver water after that can do leak test. I used silicone on all the bulkheads. Replaced main valves with gate valves. Hopefully it will all work out.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170818/ae908a00b2136a8c99963ec569b19b43.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170818/c8e54b077d81a91128bc97b7f75a351b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170818/2c67e24dd1f5bdc896eea801626059e0.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170818/4770127a2fed7e7679989aad2b5c8b99.jpg

dimasv
08/18/2017, 06:11 AM
You said you used silicone on the bulkheads. Do you mean silicone oring lubricant or silicone adhesive ? Plumbing looks great !!! Good luck with the leak test !I used this one is that a mistake?

http://www.reefsupplies.ca/online-store/Black-FISH-REEF-SAFE-Silicone-10.1-oz..html


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dimasv
08/18/2017, 07:21 AM
You said you used silicone on the bulkheads. Do you mean silicone oring lubricant or silicone adhesive ? Plumbing looks great !!! Good luck with the leak test !


I put silicone between the gasket and glass, aswell as between the nut and glass. Is this really wrong, would u suggest to redo it ?

der_wille_zur_macht
08/18/2017, 11:13 AM
Silicone isn't inherently bad on a bulkhead but it is unnecessary and can cause problems. If you ever need to replace that bulkhead it will be a lot more work than if you hadn't glued it in. Also the silicone can lubricate the gasket to the point that it squeezes out when the bulkhead is tightened and causes a leak.

If you don't have leaks you might as well leave it as is for now.

dimasv
08/18/2017, 11:17 AM
Silicone isn't inherently bad on a bulkhead but it is unnecessary and can cause problems. If you ever need to replace that bulkhead it will be a lot more work than if you hadn't glued it in. Also the silicone can lubricate the gasket to the point that it squeezes out when the bulkhead is tightened and causes a leak.

If you don't have leaks you might as well leave it as is for now.

I guess I better replace them now when tank is empty. brr...

dimasv
08/18/2017, 12:15 PM
Just curious. I removed the first bulkhead and silicone gets off easily. Can i use the same bulkhead or better order a new one?

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Lsufan
08/18/2017, 05:58 PM
U can use the same bulkhead if u can get the silicone off. The gasket is what u may not be able to reuse. If u can get the silicone off the gasket without messing the gasket up then u can reuse both. U have to be careful not to damage the gasket.

Like der willie mentioned, it should be ok with the silicone. The issue is if u ever have a leak & need to replace the bulkhead it will be hard to do.

The bulkhead gasket is all that is needed on the bulkhead

dimasv
08/18/2017, 06:02 PM
U can use the same bulkhead if u can get the silicone off. The gasket is what u may not be able to reuse. If u can get the silicone off the gasket without messing the gasket up then u can reuse both. U have to be careful not to damage the gasket.

Like der willie mentioned, it should be ok with the silicone. The issue is if u ever have a leak & need to replace the bulkhead it will be hard to do.

The bulkhead gasket is all that is needed on the bulkhead

Thank you for your reply. Already took of all the bulkheads. wasnt easy had to buy wrench. The silicone came off very easy of the bulkhead and gasket even easier. Gaskets looks new so no damage, so I guess I will set them up back tomorrow no silicone this time.

danferd2002
08/19/2017, 02:02 AM
Finger tight should be all you need, no wrench.

Benar
08/19/2017, 02:48 AM
It looks nice and clean.

As a plumber; I see $$ in all the extra fittings.
For your pump line. Tee's are the greatest restriction to flow, followed by 88/90degrees. That Y junction that feeds off to the reactors and tank, I would swap direction so the straight line of the y feeds the tank and the branch line feeds the reactors. Water wants to take the easiest path, and that's straight.
What's that junction that feeds back down to the pump chamber for? I missed that sorry.

All in all, nice. It will work. It is what it is!


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dimasv
08/19/2017, 06:53 AM
It looks nice and clean.

As a plumber; I see $$ in all the extra fittings.
For your pump line. Tee's are the greatest restriction to flow, followed by 88/90degrees. That Y junction that feeds off to the reactors and tank, I would swap direction so the straight line of the y feeds the tank and the branch line feeds the reactors. Water wants to take the easiest path, and that's straight.
What's that junction that feeds back down to the pump chamber for? I missed that sorry.

All in all, nice. It will work. It is what it is!


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Thank you. The idea behind that pipe that feeds back to sump is when I need to clean the sump, I shut valves to DT, and open this one to simply circulate the water. Clean sump with powerheads and let it circulate for about 30 mins let skimmer do the job. At least thats the idea, if it will work or not will see but wanted to try

Lsufan
08/19/2017, 10:09 AM
It looks nice and clean.

As a plumber; I see $$ in all the extra fittings.
For your pump line. Tee's are the greatest restriction to flow, followed by 88/90degrees. That Y junction that feeds off to the reactors and tank, I would swap direction so the straight line of the y feeds the tank and the branch line feeds the reactors. Water wants to take the easiest path, and that's straight.
What's that junction that feeds back down to the pump chamber for? I missed that sorry.

All in all, nice. It will work. It is what it is!


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I'm not necessarily disagreeing with u because what u said is true. But I would keep the Y facing how it is. I think u may have missed that he has another return after the manifold. He will probably end up having to close the valve some on the return that isn't on the manifold line to create some head pressure to feed the manifold & the other return. Half the lines he has the valve will stay completely closed because he will only use them for maintenance.

Alot of the op's issue, especially on the drains was the hieght difference between tank & sump. He doesn't have much of a difference hieght wise between the tank & sump. So he had to use 90's in places where 45's would have been better.

dimasv
08/20/2017, 09:51 AM
Hi guys. Ok i setup everything without silicone and now testing for leaks. As i am very new to this what is the level of water supposed to be in sump compare to buffles?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170820/558d1f80f708cf8f61641ccf75649411.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170820/deec5d5a9c61cd19e3af3d0969aab8c3.jpg

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dimasv
08/20/2017, 10:48 AM
The valve on the syphon will be partially closed. U adjust the valve so the water level in the overflow is the height u want it. So by closing the valve it will raise the water in the overflow & by opening the valve it will drop the water level inside the overflow. If u leave the valve fully opened it will more then likely kick in & out of syphon. It will syphon all the water out of the overflow box & suck air & break the syphon. Once the overflow fills again it will start a syphon again & drain all the water out of the box again & so forth. U want the open channel to only take a small amount of water. So u would tune the valve on the syphon until the water level inside the overflow box is just above the bottom of where the 2 90's connect to each other on the open channel standpipe.

When u start the system for the first time I would have the valve on the syphon fully open. Once the water gets circulating through the system slowly close the valve until the water raises in the overflow box. It will take u a few minutes to get it to not kick in & out of syphon & emptying the overflow box. At first just adjust the valve so the water stays stable inside the overflow box. Once u get that u can start fine tuning the valve to get the water level inside the overflow to where u want it. U adjust the water level to where the open channel only has a small amount of water going through it. The open channel will be loud if it has to much flow. Once u get it stabilized if it is loud & u have bubbles entering the sump from the open channel then it means u need to open the valve on the syphon a small amount to lower the water level because the open channel has to much flow.

The system will more then likely work how it is, but changing to 45's would definitely help. It will help the open channel be a little quieter also. If u do change them I would do it on both the syphon & open channel. If u change them don't use 2- 45's to make a 90. Install a 45 directly below your union & have the pvc run through the wall on a 45 degree angle. Once u get to where it needs to be put another 45 to get back square with the sump. So u would only use 2- 45's in the hole run. I would consider just cutting a square out of the wall for the plumbing if u go that route. It doesn't have to be big but big enough to run both drains through. On the open channel I would turn it to where it is aiming to the section of the sump it is entering. So instead of coming straight through the wall then having to 90 over to get it to the sump, have the 45 that is below the union facing the section of the sump it will enter. That is one good thing about the union below the bulkheads. U can turn it to where the plumbing is facing where u want it to. By doing that u can plumb it almost identical to the syphon & would only have 2- 45's in the run. Plumbing wise, the open channel & syphon need to be configured as similar to each other as possible. By doing that they will be.

It looks like it is going to be tight to try to change to 45's unless u remove the unions or lower the sump. They make a street 45 that one end will slide into the union. That will save some room & may give u just enough. At the very least I would go ahead & turn the open channel to where it's a straight shot to the sump. That will atleast eliminate one 90.

At the very least I would put a gate valve on the syphon & gate valves on the manifold. U can get away with the ball valves everywhere else.

Trying to follow your guide ti setup the water level. So I have the pump at the very low speed. Fully opened full siphon. The water level in overflow goes up and down up and down making lots of noise. So I started to close it almost completely, this is when it stabilized. So now if I turn on the pump full speed, I have to adjust it again correct ? If yes, lets say I adjust it at full speed, what would happen when it goes into the feeding mode ?

dimasv
08/20/2017, 05:57 PM
ok finally got it resolved. Man that thing is quite ! Turned on pump at full speed, closed main valve a bit, and its done, had a bit more bubbles from open channel, opened a bit, and no bubbles now. In which chamber is the best to have ATO ?

Lsufan
08/21/2017, 09:51 PM
U put the ato sensor in the return section. The skimmer section & fuge will always stay the same hieght because of the baffles. So the evaporation makes the return section flunctuate. By having the ato in the return section everything should stay stable.

I would stick to one speed on the return pump so u don't have to constantly adjust the valve. Every time u change speeds u will have to adjust it. U shouldn't have to do anything about feed mode. When it turns back on the water in the overflow will rise above normal until the syphon purges the air & kicks in. Once it kicks in it will be back to how it was before u turned your pump off. U shouldn't have to adjust the valve. That is one of the many great things about a bean animal, u should very rarely have to adjust the valve. I don't ever have to adjust mine, it has been over a year since I touched it & may be even longer then that.

As far as how much water to run in the sump. I would set it up to where the water in the return section is just barely lower then the fuge section. So the water would only fall 1/4" to 1/2" over the baffle for the return section. If the system is running in the picture then I would remove a little water from the sump so the water is barely falling over the baffle. From the pic it looks like u would lower it by about 1". By doing that it will keep the surface of the water a little agitated & keep any film from building up on the surface. It will also give u a little more room for the extra water that drains to the sump when u turn the return pump off.

I'm glad u got it going with no issues & I hope I explained how to get it dialed in well enough so it helped. I didn't see your posts yesterday so I know I'm probably a little late. Looks like u got it figured out though

dimasv
08/22/2017, 08:32 AM
U put the ato sensor in the return section. The skimmer section & fuge will always stay the same hieght because of the baffles. So the evaporation makes the return section flunctuate. By having the ato in the return section everything should stay stable.

I would stick to one speed on the return pump so u don't have to constantly adjust the valve. Every time u change speeds u will have to adjust it. U shouldn't have to do anything about feed mode. When it turns back on the water in the overflow will rise above normal until the syphon purges the air & kicks in. Once it kicks in it will be back to how it was before u turned your pump off. U shouldn't have to adjust the valve. That is one of the many great things about a bean animal, u should very rarely have to adjust the valve. I don't ever have to adjust mine, it has been over a year since I touched it & may be even longer then that.

As far as how much water to run in the sump. I would set it up to where the water in the return section is just barely lower then the fuge section. So the water would only fall 1/4" to 1/2" over the baffle for the return section. If the system is running in the picture then I would remove a little water from the sump so the water is barely falling over the baffle. From the pic it looks like u would lower it by about 1". By doing that it will keep the surface of the water a little agitated & keep any film from building up on the surface. It will also give u a little more room for the extra water that drains to the sump when u turn the return pump off.

I'm glad u got it going with no issues & I hope I explained how to get it dialed in well enough so it helped. I didn't see your posts yesterday so I know I'm probably a little late. Looks like u got it figured out though

You were more then helpful I really appreciate that. Learned a lot !
So to keep pump at one speed what speed you keep ? 100% or maybe 50 % what does it depends on ?

Lsufan
08/22/2017, 05:20 PM
It depends how much flow u want thru the sump. What gph is the pump rated at & what size tank is it that u have? Most people shoot for between 5 to 10 times turnover with 10 times being on the higher end. So a 100 gallon tank u would want between 500 & 1000 gph flowing through the sump. I like a little higher turnover so I have both of my systems at about 7 to 8 times turnover. So on a 100 gallon tank that would be 700 to 800 gph.

I was just saying that u don't want to be changing speeds on the pump because everytime u do u will have to adjust the drain. I would lean towards just keeping it at 100 percent but I can't say without knowing the size of the tank. The M1 isn't great with pressure so with how u have everything plumbed u may not get but around 500 gph from it

dimasv
08/26/2017, 08:23 AM
Small thing i see now while testing the power outage is when power gets back on the water level in return section droping apx 5 cm below the ato level first. In 30 seks it gets back up. How do u guys handle such drops with ato? As i dont want it to pure water for those 30 seks. Should i create a hole maybe in my full siphon pipe for air?

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Lsufan
08/26/2017, 06:11 PM
No, u don't need a hole in the syphon. There is no need if the drain is setup properly which I believe u are. There really is no getting around the water level dropping some when u turn it on. It will build up in the overflow box until the syphon gets started. A hole may help a small amount but I don't think it would make much difference. The only time I turn my return pumps off is when I do a water change or feed corals. I see no need to turn my pumps off when feeding. In fact it helps keep the food from settling until it is eaten. There really isn't much at all that may go into the overflow.

If u want to keep turning the return off u will need to find a way to turn the ato off until u start the system back up & the syphon is steady. I do turn my return off when I feed corals once or twice a week & I manually turn everything but the lights off. I wait to turn the ato on until the syphon is back steady. If u have a apex I'm sure u can turn off the ato with the apex & have it set to where it comes back on a few minutes after the return. If u don't have a apex u can just use a timer on the ato. Being your return pump has a controller u can put the ato on a timer & have it turn off for a hour each day the same time as the return

fishyguy7
08/27/2017, 02:00 AM
are you using a controller like a apex or reef keeper ? if so you can add defer option for your ATO so it won't start when the water level stabilizes. if no controller then you don't really have a option.


Small thing i see now while testing the power outage is when power gets back on the water level in return section droping apx 5 cm below the ato level first. In 30 seks it gets back up. How do u guys handle such drops with ato? As i dont want it to pure water for those 30 seks. Should i create a hole maybe in my full siphon pipe for air?

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dimasv
08/27/2017, 08:11 AM
I have plans to use APEX in future but dont have one yet. As for the feeding time Apex will work as u can program to shutoff diff equipment, but when we have a power outage APEX is down too in this case, not sure how would that work

Taking about timers u gave me a great idea. all I do is I will setup timer to turn on ATO every hour for 5 minutes. In this case there is a very small chance of power come back in exactly those 5 minutes. I think it should work.

Thank you

Lsufan
08/27/2017, 12:54 PM
If the return turns of every day or multiple times daily then it may be a issue. If it is only once or twice a week then it really isn't a issue. I check my salinity about once a month & every once in a while my salinity will drop from 1.026 to 1.025 & I just turn off my ato for a day or two & top off with saltwater to get it back up. U definitely don't want it to have big swings in salinity so if u are using feed mode on the return daily a timer can work well. U can eighther set it up like u mentioned or set it up to where it turns off for a hour at the same time as the return.

Unless u have outages every day I really wouldn't worry about that. U will have to raise your salinity every once in a while anyways because of your skimmer. Your skimmer pulls out saltwater & it is replaced by freshwater from the ATO. In my case all I do is turn my ato off for a day or so about once a month & top off with saltwater. In my case that is enough to keep my salinity within .001 ppt which is about as stable as u can get.

I would check your salinity pretty often for a while until u see what your system is doing. Once u get a good baseline & figure out a good routine to keep it stable u will only need to test once a month or so. That really goes for all params & not only salinity. While u are cycling is a good time to get the salinity figured out so once the tank is cycled & u start adding livestock u will have the salinity stable & can move on to the other params.