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View Full Version : Metal Halide and Kalkwasser


karimwassef
08/09/2017, 03:46 PM
I've use Kalk drip for years successfully, but I've always also used Metal Halide.

I have a friend who's doing the same but using LEDs. His Kalk need is overwhelming his evaporation rate which is lower than mine.

So we're talking about this - and wondering if the higher evaporation rate from running hotter lights (like MH) makes running a Kalk drip more viable.

So how many are running kalk with MH vs. kalk with LED?

karimwassef
08/09/2017, 09:23 PM
just two votes? :D

if you use kalk, please give it a bump

Cheapreef
08/09/2017, 10:15 PM
I use over saturated Kalk (40ml of vinegar per gallon 3 heaping tsps Kalk) for all my top off for my Reefer Nano (28gal total system) and it just keeps up. 90% SPS, up side is I'm carbon dosing as well and keeps my Nitrates at 0 and phosphates at .024

karimwassef
08/16/2017, 11:52 AM
More votes but no comments?

Are most not using kalk?

jason2459
08/16/2017, 12:09 PM
LED with a couple T5's here.

In the summer I have fans blowing over my tank and sump to help keep it cool which increases evaporation. The AC and dehumidifier also bumps evaporation some too. In the winter the dry air increases my evaporation as well.

But I do dose my limewater separate from my ATO so it's consistent 24/7/365. I try and set it so it's lower then my evaporation rate even during my lowest evaporation seasons which is typically fall and spring.

But I am not heavy into SPS, have some lps, soft corals, and many anemones. And of course coraline. So, not sure how much my system correlates to others. If my demand surpassed my limewater dosing I would continue the continuous limewater dosing and supplement with a 2part.

hkgar
08/17/2017, 02:44 PM
I have 3 250 Radiums and 4 t5. I dose Kalk and use a Ca reactor. Here is a handy tool (https://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/KalkContribution.php) to calculate calcium concentration to match the dKH needs. With my evaporation rate of about 4.5 gallons today fully saturated Kalk would add over 3.4 dKH per day. My daily usage is about 2.

nereefpat
08/18/2017, 07:55 AM
I'm not sure how to vote. I run 6 t5 bulbs over my 125, and I'm not sure if you consider those hot or cool lights.

I use kalk at less than full strength to replace about 1.5 gal/day evaporation, and it keeps alk and Ca in line. I don't have any sps; just lps and leathers.

Sorry, that probably isn't very helpful.

karimwassef
08/18/2017, 09:39 AM
I'd include T5 under cool light

tmz
08/18/2017, 12:05 PM
Higher evaporation rates allow more kalk dosing as top off ,obviously. However,temperature is only one of many variables( surface agitation,surface air exposure relative humidity etc.) that effect evaporation rates; lighting source is mostly irrelevant to kalk dosing as it is only one of many contributors to aquarium temperature.

karimwassef
08/18/2017, 12:29 PM
Unless you run metal halides.

I probably have double the evaporation rate of my friend running LEDs.

hkgar
08/18/2017, 12:31 PM
Yup, with only 8 hours of my MH my evaporation rate is 4 1/2 gallons.

nereefpat
08/18/2017, 12:42 PM
Unless you run metal halides.

I probably have double the evaporation rate of my friend running LEDs.

To be clear,

You are saying that two tanks in the same room that are the same size, run the same water temperature, same flow, but different light sources will have different evaporation rates?

hkgar
08/18/2017, 01:39 PM
As the water at the surface warms it causes the molecules to move faster which increase the evaporation. Check the evaporation rate when the water is brought to boiling, or even the noticeable evaporation at a slow simmer.

Do they not teach that in basic science any more? It has been a long time since I went to school (just got the award for oldest on the board) and things get changed

nereefpat
08/18/2017, 02:31 PM
Easy, hkgar. I'm just making sure we're all on the same page here. I've taken plenty of science courses.

I would be interested to see how much difference there would be in evaporation between a tank lit with LEDs and one lit with MHs, all else being equal. i.e. if the average tank temp in the MH lit tank didn't increase when the MHs were turned on, as temp was controlled by a chiller and the water was thoroughly mixed. I would think tank temp, surface area (surface agitation), and RH of the room would be more of a factor.

karimwassef
08/18/2017, 02:56 PM
The surface temperature of the water under MH is higher than under LED.

The visible light isn't the issue. The IR radiation is significantly different.

I would put MH and sunlight in the "hot" group. LED, T5, VHO in the "cold" group based on heating of the water.

tmz
08/18/2017, 10:12 PM
The poll still makes little sense as it relates to kalk efficiency with MH since most aquarists control temperature not by choosing different lights but in various other ways like turning down the room temperature or the tank heaters. Personally, I use various lighting LEDs ,MH, T5 PCs on various tanks and keep temp in the 77 to 80 range on all of them. MH produces heat but so do t-5 , pc . Further, how much heat from a lighting source effects the water beneath it depends on air flow across the lights , distance from the water, room temperature , color temp of the light , etc.
In any case there is no need to tie calcium hydroxide dosing to top off systems . Dosing it independently at a preset daily level dosed evenly over 24 hours gives more constancy to the aquarium in terms of alk and calcium and salinity ; it also enables more efficient use of the dosed calcium hydroxide since even dosing spread over time is less likely to waste some of the alk and calcium via abiotic precipitation.

tmz
08/18/2017, 10:14 PM
As the water at the surface warms it causes the molecules to move faster which increase the evaporation. Check the evaporation rate when the water is brought to boiling, or even the noticeable evaporation at a slow simmer.

Do they not teach that in basic science any more? It has been a long time since I went to school (just got the award for oldest on the board) and things get changed
That's still the same Gary, the increased kenetic energy from the movement increases evaporation. How did you get the award for oldest? I may have you beat.

hkgar
08/19/2017, 05:54 AM
That's still the same Gary, the increased kenetic energy from the movement increases evaporation. How did you get the award for oldest? I may have you beat.

Here is where I got the award.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2647765

Are you over 73?

johnike
08/19/2017, 06:21 AM
I'm no help here.
I have LED's over the 93 cube, 175w SE MH over the 65, T5's over the lagoon, and a PC floodlight over the sump, all tied together.

johnike
08/19/2017, 06:22 AM
Here is where I got the award.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2647765

Are you over 73?

Wow, almost as old as Nina in the Lounge!
:eek:
:lmao:

hkgar
08/19/2017, 07:34 AM
Wow, almost as old as Nina in the Lounge!
:eek:
:lmao:

Nah, Nina's just a kid! Born in 1951, so I have 7 years on her. Well not really "on" her. :spin1:

johnike
08/19/2017, 08:08 AM
Nah, Nina's just a kid! Born in 1951, so I have 7 years on her. Well not really "on" her. :spin1:

:eek1:
:wave:

jda
08/19/2017, 09:26 AM
I use MH and cannot keep up with my demand with kalk... even if I could get close the PH would be way too high. CaRx for me. This not exactly what you were asking, so I hope that it helps.

If he needs to evaporate more, then have him run some fans. Heaters will run more too, though.

tmz
08/19/2017, 09:38 AM
Here is where I got the award.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2647765

Are you over 73?

You win. I'm only 1946 vintage. Probably would have been earlier but Dad was in combat , MIA,and a POW in Germany during the early and mid 1940s.

karimwassef
08/19/2017, 10:01 AM
It's summer and he is running more fans to increase his evaporation. It's keeping his tank at 77-78. I run around 82-84.

Neither of us tie kalk to the ATO. The problem is in the amount of kalk needed to achieve the target Alk. Mine works fine. His tank is getting diluted with excess fresh water. He's struggling to maintain his salinity.

The biggest difference between our systems is light type, temperature and therefore evaporation rate.

hkgar
08/19/2017, 11:54 AM
You win. I'm only 1946 vintage. Probably would have been earlier but Dad was in combat , MIA,and a POW in Germany during the early and mid 1940s.

Well Tom, both of us may be lucky to be here. I was born 11 years after my youngest brother - probably a mistake. You are a true baby boomer! I was too early.

I had an uncle who spent 44 moths of WW2 as a "guest' of the Japanese. He was captured and was in the Bataan death march.

Your dad's service and sacrifice is appreciated very much. For his service and the service of many, many other's we should be forever grateful.