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Julian.Rad17
08/10/2017, 09:57 AM
So I got back from vacation and noticed that one of my green acros had started to bleach from the tips down. I checked all the parameters everything's was normal and I also had a dosing pump set up to maintain calcium, alk, and nopox to control nitrates. It seems there had been no changes aside from one water change halfway through the vacation. A few days ago I noticed the same thing is happening to my purple acro who was looking ok since I got back. Both theses corals were doing great and had entrusted onto the rock before I left. My other sps (various montis) are doing great and growing. If anyone knows what causes them to slowly peel from the top down please let me know. Thx

Pife
08/10/2017, 09:59 AM
Will you list all your parameters so we can see what normal is? Also any pictures are very valuable.

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Julian.Rad17
08/10/2017, 10:20 AM
Alk- 9.5
Cal-440
No3-5
Po4-0.05
Sg-1.025

I'll post some pics soon

Julian.Rad17
08/10/2017, 10:41 AM
377818

377819

DivingTheWorld
08/10/2017, 11:20 AM
Parameters seem normal. Any change in lighting? Have you tried adding a Polyfilter in case some sort of chemical got into your system?

Julian.Rad17
08/10/2017, 11:29 AM
Parameters seem normal. Any change in lighting? Have you tried adding a Polyfilter in case some sort of chemical got into your system?

Lighting has not changed. I have gfo and a porous nitrate media. I think if a chemical was in there other corals would have reacted

reefmutt
08/10/2017, 12:45 PM
How long have you had those pieces?
It's tough to see the pics in my phone.. is that monti reaching the acro or is it just the angle?
Stressed acros can just up and rtn when another coral comes along and burns it. Normally a healthy acro would probably burn the monti but those acros do not look like they have been healthy for a while. Again, though tough to see on my phone
In my experience, acros that just give up the ghost like that have had issues for a long time and have finally succumbed..

Julian.Rad17
08/10/2017, 01:25 PM
How long have you had those pieces?
It's tough to see the pics in my phone.. is that monti reaching the acro or is it just the angle?
Stressed acros can just up and rtn when another coral comes along and burns it. Normally a healthy acro would probably burn the monti but those acros do not look like they have been healthy for a while. Again, though tough to see on my phone
In my experience, acros that just give up the ghost like that have had issues for a long time and have finally succumbed..

I've had these two for more than four months and they have been very healthy up until I got back from my trip. Before I left they had encrusted onto the rock with full PE and were continuing to grow. No sign of bad health. 2 weeks in the trip they still looked great. So something must've happened in the last 2 weeks possibly after the LFS people did the waterchange.

The Monti has grown around the acros without touching them so there is no physical signs that the Monti is bothering them. The bleaching has been pretty slow/constant for the past month.

DivingTheWorld
08/10/2017, 02:36 PM
Well, bleaching from the top down is generally related to too strong of lighting. What kind of lighting are you using, what intensity and for how long?

Julian.Rad17
08/10/2017, 02:44 PM
Well, bleaching from the top down is generally related to too strong of lighting. What kind of lighting are you using, what intensity and for how long?

Ok I don't know if you read my earlier post but the acros were in a very healthy condition until now and we're growing. There's no way the light is the issue if they were healthy until recently and the lights haven't been changed. Something happened while I was away. If u have to know I'm using the AI prime for 10hrs a day.

DivingTheWorld
08/10/2017, 03:01 PM
Ok I don't know if you read my earlier post but the acros were in a very healthy condition until now and we're growing. There's no way the light is the issue if they were healthy until recently and the lights haven't been changed. Something happened while I was away. If u have to know I'm using the AI prime for 10hrs a day.

I did yes, and no I don't have to know. We're trying to help you, remotely, from a couple limited quality photos and limited info on your tank. We're doing our best with what we've been given and offering the best suggestions we can.

Since you know it's not your lights and you know it's not any type of chemical leached into the water, then next suggestion would be bug inspection. Pull a couple out and get them under a magnifying glass. Or if you have a dslr with a macro lens, you can try that route to get a close up.

Julian.Rad17
08/10/2017, 03:41 PM
I did yes, and no I don't have to know. We're trying to help you, remotely, from a couple limited quality photos and limited info on your tank. We're doing our best with what we've been given and offering the best suggestions we can.

Since you know it's not your lights and you know it's not any type of chemical leached into the water, then next suggestion would be bug inspection. Pull a couple out and get them under a magnifying glass. Or if you have a dslr with a macro lens, you can try that route to get a close up.

Sorry about that but sometimes people on here don't really care and just mess around with me while I'm trying to find and answer. I'll check tonight and see if I find something.

DivingTheWorld
08/10/2017, 03:50 PM
One other possibility is something that happened during your vacation such as a power outage. Do you run an Apex? Are you able to review your graphs to determine if there were any power outages or temperature drops (or spikes this time of year).

Julian.Rad17
08/10/2017, 04:26 PM
One other possibility is something that happened during your vacation such as a power outage. Do you run an Apex? Are you able to review your graphs to determine if there were any power outages or temperature drops (or spikes this time of year).

I had someone there watching the tank so I don't think there was an outage (that we know of). All of the parameters were stable (I don't have an apex) so I'm wondering if something regarding the water change/maintenance the lfs did may have caused this.

Since this was triggered by something that happened weeks ago why is my purple acro just now starting to show signs? I know there can be a delayed response but can it take this long? If this is the case wouldn't both of them have been in the same condition when I got back or does it depend on the individual coral?

Ebn
08/10/2017, 05:01 PM
Are the bottoms alive on those pieces? From the pics, it's kind of hard to tell, but it looks like the bottom of them are all skeleton and only the top part just died recently.

Also, the LFS people that changed out the water, have they been using the same salt and mixed to the same salinity the entire time?

Julian.Rad17
08/10/2017, 05:20 PM
Are the bottoms alive on those pieces? From the pics, it's kind of hard to tell, but it looks like the bottom of them are all skeleton and only the top part just died recently.

Also, the LFS people that changed out the water, have they been using the same salt and mixed to the same salinity the entire time?

The bottoms are alive because they have been dying from the tips down.

Yes the salt they are using is the same as what I'm using. I'm not really sure what else they did that could have irritated them if that's what happened

karimwassef
08/10/2017, 05:52 PM
Sudden Alk swing, even if it's brief.

I would cut off the dead part under the living tissue and superglue.

Julian.Rad17
08/10/2017, 05:58 PM
Sudden Alk swing, even if it's brief.

I would cut off the dead part under the living tissue and superglue.

I have a dosing pump. The water change was 25% like I normally do. Idk about any alk swing.

karimwassef
08/10/2017, 09:44 PM
Do you measure it?

Julian.Rad17
08/10/2017, 09:56 PM
Do you measure it?

YES. it never changes. I'm not really sure why you asked that

ssgss gogeta
08/10/2017, 10:10 PM
Sometimes RTN is really unknown causes. alk swings are the most common though. But regardless I have only seen one colony be brought back. Best is that you can remove the affected parts and keep what's not affected and hope it stays normal


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karimwassef
08/10/2017, 10:17 PM
Alk changes throughout the day. Even with continuous dosing.

What you're describing lines up with my experience in Alk spike driven light oversensitivity.

Julian.Rad17
08/10/2017, 10:27 PM
Alk changes throughout the day. Even with continuous dosing.

What you're describing lines up with my experience in Alk spike driven light oversensitivity.

So how would they be perfectly healthy and growing for months and then suddenly start dying.

der_wille_zur_macht
08/10/2017, 10:40 PM
So how would they be perfectly healthy and growing for months and then suddenly start dying.

Because your alkalinity changed suddenly, I think that's the point he was trying to make. You keep saying you measure everything, but we are assuming you weren't measuring alkalinity daily while you were gone, hence there's a chance something could have happened then which you don't know about.

It could have been the water change (what salinity did they mix to? How did they test it? If the salinity was off, the alkalinity and calcium and other parameters would have been off by the same amount. Maybe they corrected the mistake or it self-corrected by the time you returned, thanks to your dosing pumps). Or your dosing pump may have hiccuped or been disturbed while you were away.

Or it could be something totally different. You said the lighting didn't change, but the light intensity at the actual surface of the coral depends on many factors besides the light unit itself. Maybe the LFS ran carbon or a filter sock during or after the water change? Things like that can cause a sudden jump in lighting intensity: suddenly running lots of carbon, or even just a large water change, can remove enough organic matter from the water column to significantly increase clarity.

Maybe your skimmer was not maintained similarly to how you normally do it when you're not on vacation?

Did you get a chance to check for pests?

It's really hard to diagnose because none of us (apparently including you) were there when this happened. Acropora can be very sensitive to very small changes, and the damage can take days or weeks to show. I agree with karimwassef, your best course of action is probably to cut away the empty skeleton and hope for the best, assuming there are no visible pests.

Ebn
08/10/2017, 11:39 PM
Very true. It does and can happen when you're not there to see it or test the tank when it happened.

So, take this piece for example.

When it was first acquired as a brown piece, it had no polyps and was brown. This is ~2 weeks after it was placed in the tank. Polyps are finally out and there's a hint of color in the tissue other than brown.
http://ericdo.com/pictures/Cadlight46G/Corals/crc_tris_acro_072916.jpg

This is the same frag ~8 months afterwards. Fully encrusted over the plug that was in the other pic. Colors had shown up and it was doing rather well.
http://ericdo.com/pictures/Cadlight46G/Corals/crc_tris_acro_050317.jpg

Left for a 3 day weekend and came back to an fully bleached and dead frag. Everything obviously checked out on the test kit and on Fusion, but something must have happened when I wasn't there.

Julian.Rad17
08/11/2017, 06:16 AM
Because your alkalinity changed suddenly, I think that's the point he was trying to make. You keep saying you measure everything, but we are assuming you weren't measuring alkalinity daily while you were gone, hence there's a chance something could have happened then which you don't know about.

It could have been the water change (what salinity did they mix to? How did they test it? If the salinity was off, the alkalinity and calcium and other parameters would have been off by the same amount. Maybe they corrected the mistake or it self-corrected by the time you returned, thanks to your dosing pumps). Or your dosing pump may have hiccuped or been disturbed while you were away.

Or it could be something totally different. You said the lighting didn't change, but the light intensity at the actual surface of the coral depends on many factors besides the light unit itself. Maybe the LFS ran carbon or a filter sock during or after the water change? Things like that can cause a sudden jump in lighting intensity: suddenly running lots of carbon, or even just a large water change, can remove enough organic matter from the water column to significantly increase clarity.

Maybe your skimmer was not maintained similarly to how you normally do it when you're not on vacation?

Did you get a chance to check for pests?

It's really hard to diagnose because none of us (apparently including you) were there when this happened. Acropora can be very sensitive to very small changes, and the damage can take days or weeks to show. I agree with karimwassef, your best course of action is probably to cut away the empty skeleton and hope for the best, assuming there are no visible pests.

I'm assuming the water the used for the water change was about 1.026. I get my water from them so when I do a water change I don't match it to my parameters, never had any problems.

I'm not aware of any filter media that they ran all they said was they did a water change. The only difference was that there were 2 weeks in between a water change instead of one every week like I normally do. Could this have triggered it?

All my equiptment was run the same if not cleaned more frequently than I normally do.

So this morning I cut off all the dead/ dying tissues and skeleton and covered the cuts with superglue.