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View Full Version : Dip to kill Xenia and softies only?


karimwassef
09/01/2017, 07:47 AM
I have large rocks that are heavily encrusted with sps, softies, sponges and worms.

I'd like to remove the softies (Xenia, GSP, buttons, mushrooms) but not harm anything else. I'm partial to the sps and sponges I've cultivated.

Would a freshwater dip make them pop? Bayer? Heavy iodine? High concentration Aptasia X?

I would take hours to remove with kalk and superglue. I'm looking for a possible lazy way out.

hegeh
09/01/2017, 07:56 AM
Would like to know too.. my gsp is spreading over the rock. Ugly brown gsp..

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EDJFA
09/01/2017, 08:39 AM
Why don't you trade your rock in for some bare stuff? Or sell it to someone who likes those softies?

Seems like a waste to just kill the animals you've let grow in your tank because you want to switch to SPS and sponges.

karimwassef
09/01/2017, 08:56 AM
I already have SPS and sponges. The Xenia was a small ride along that became invasive.

I made this rock myself out of PVC and concrete. Over time, the softies will kill the sps on it, even in someone else's tank.

That's the real shame

mcgyvr
09/01/2017, 10:16 AM
I am not aware of a selective coral killer that targets softies but leaves the rest alone...

Kremis
09/01/2017, 10:27 AM
scissors does it pretty well

newbie2014
09/01/2017, 12:02 PM
scissors does it pretty well

I'm not so sure about that.....not with my waving hand Xenia.

To make room for my first rainbow BTA, I cut a bunch of those big Xenia trunks all the way down to the rock surface. 2-3 weeks later the remaining very thin mucus remnant grew back into bushes of baby Xenia colonies.

karimwassef
09/01/2017, 12:35 PM
Any tissue regenerates.

karimwassef
09/01/2017, 12:43 PM
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/2B403627-D6E0-448A-814A-8C9E5471DDB7_zpscvlxfmyo.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/2B403627-D6E0-448A-814A-8C9E5471DDB7_zpscvlxfmyo.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 2B403627-D6E0-448A-814A-8C9E5471DDB7_zpscvlxfmyo.jpg"></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/3DED5562-DCDF-4D3C-9F1B-4C735D9FD293_zpsnfisjd9a.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/3DED5562-DCDF-4D3C-9F1B-4C735D9FD293_zpsnfisjd9a.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 3DED5562-DCDF-4D3C-9F1B-4C735D9FD293_zpsnfisjd9a.jpg"></a>

karimwassef
09/01/2017, 12:44 PM
Maybe I'll dip it in acid just below where the satosa starts

The concrete is too hard to break. I've fragged the sps plenty of times and this is the parent.

Acid dipping would melt the sponges inside and below too.

bertoni
09/01/2017, 03:36 PM
I don't know of anything that'd be selective for soft corals. I think you'll have to work by hand, which is going to be time-consuming and long term.

kapelan
09/01/2017, 04:38 PM
Hydrogen Peroxide directly to the mushroom will kill it immediately.

greengeco82
09/01/2017, 06:34 PM
Make a paste out of kalkwasser and water. Use a syringe to apply it to the base
(after you manually remove). Other things i have done are use hammer coral and place them on top of the undesired. Hammer and Frogspawn are pretty aggressive and never loose.

karimwassef
09/01/2017, 06:54 PM
Make a paste out of kalkwasser and water. Use a syringe to apply it to the base
(after you manually remove). Other things i have done are use hammer coral and place them on top of the undesired. Hammer and Frogspawn are pretty aggressive and never loose.

Unfortunately, my frogspawn lost to my Xenia... the mass of Xenia eventually overwhelmed them. :(

I fragged and some heads made it, but it was rough.

The razor + kalk paste and superglue are the "manual" solution I'm trying to avoid. I have 8 feet x 3 feet of rock...

dartier
09/02/2017, 05:30 AM
For the reasons that you are experiencing, is why I am not planning to allow ANY soft corals in my new tank that is being built. Debating if I want to chance zoos on their own rock islands on the bottom.

Xenia are dependent on iodine. If your water column is lacking iodine, then xenia tend to disappear over time. The same for ULNS, running ULNS will cause softies to slowly disappear. Difficult to do if you have LPS though as you have to spot feed each LPS using this strategy.

Also I believe you are running skimmerless, which is also like steroids for softies. The higher DOC in the water will cause the softies to multiply at an alarming rate. Ask me how I know this :rollface:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/othyTLBHfrdH2YlkVqkCpA1Ir0Zu-jLI3D-U9P-Dm9BKI3ChfSEpnD-UT2bU_jM10OmRNguDcx4uBHup1CYEYHb9QGlPT7VtyJgqmwZ3z179RMlXjDCSQuya2Fkw4q7DT0M6QQEYanmNkfcMkQywk40Q2xd 3xTY5WGRDFfGIiOjjjXQojQcxaV-JqeK8hW2eNmqHHeJuxFShqsj5lKJzwcNpK-QaRkzgccxm5UfuNTBNwqD0BFxKHyK18vd5HlwnR-9XezDOK4hxOSIWzszku9tRi2zWYp6mEOGSDHvRYIRb_-ugiCPZlZ18dN3meJbGFA11wgXdk0GvI7Ue8cqC6Zrxk7dmQCtsQt7cE76Hie6u9UBavlIfqtvA8_5b68O_P23PzrEDpNq0P3lL8S 4Cq24b_QZuozK4mySWRp-LJoOmV3iq8Duj46EhmkPs7zeF7mJyTse6P8qA-6zqkc3uNaLlHGgdASVR8dI4a7oy2vPXGeNJCjiHaR-K9owpbJwUESMJhU7-fdFBewq3gnu8Zbb_tejNbCpP2oAp0oTi-ptbJ8V7f_tRfmJ513Tq6WRmaQzAx7c2NuS_mkb8hTanrGwt_XSIvtjxeiC3Bf0noA1T-EGyiJrugTZXlTwnPpc6vqSO6fWGc5iR8ymcT9zNrDnzg45CQvXOvXPATAzJfsj6HA=w4400-h2476-no

Dennis

bertoni
09/02/2017, 10:26 AM
Although a lot of people have said that iodine is required for Xenia to grow, I had a tank with a lot of Xenia, and never had any issues, even without dosing iodine and through periods of inadequate water changes. I don't know of any quantitative data that shows that Xenia require iodine supplementation.

karimwassef
09/02/2017, 02:56 PM
I don't dose iodine. My Xenia don't care. The same thing that helps them helps my sps = feeding and no mechanical filtration. They LOVE my clam smooties - but so do my sps...

newbie2014
09/02/2017, 03:33 PM
My Xenia colonies are the same way......they make a medium sized hammer colony look like a sissy.

karimwassef
09/02/2017, 03:38 PM
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/9EA1902F-80CD-4C46-9020-12963911D7ED_zpsuxfshtlj.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/9EA1902F-80CD-4C46-9020-12963911D7ED_zpsuxfshtlj.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 9EA1902F-80CD-4C46-9020-12963911D7ED_zpsuxfshtlj.jpg"></a>

karimwassef
09/02/2017, 03:39 PM
As I sell my sps, the Xenia and GSP exploit the space quickly.

GSP and zoas are just as bad.

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/0D2F8BE9-6582-40D7-BBBA-EFAF81C35406_zpsklqre9kz.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/0D2F8BE9-6582-40D7-BBBA-EFAF81C35406_zpsklqre9kz.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 0D2F8BE9-6582-40D7-BBBA-EFAF81C35406_zpsklqre9kz.jpg"></a>

Ihuntbugs
09/02/2017, 03:55 PM
Hit those with hydrogen peroxide. Both Xenia and gsp are very sensitive to it.

newbie2014
09/02/2017, 04:12 PM
Maybe with a direct hit with concentrated H2O2.

When I dosed my tank with a lot of H2O2 (for algae issues), only the Kenya tree suffered.

Ihuntbugs
09/02/2017, 05:37 PM
I dipped some rock in hydrogen peroxide that had bad bubble algae on it. I also had some gsp and Xenia that at the time I was trying to not kill so I did not let it sit more than a minute or so. Some of the Xenia died and the ones that didn't, shrunk really bad. The gsp closed up for about a week and some never did open up. Zoas will blister up really bad. I had some sit in hp for 5 minutes and they survived but looked like crap after the 5 minute dip. I would imagine if you made the dip highly concentrated and let it sit for a long time it might do the trick?


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karimwassef
09/02/2017, 08:08 PM
the whole point is to do this easily. SPS can survive dry for quite a bit.

I guess I could put peroxide in a spray bottle and spray the softies with it a few times.

I think the sponges will likely die due to exposure to air, but I'm willing to accept that as a partial outcome.

Ihuntbugs
09/02/2017, 11:22 PM
Yeah if you do I would do a small area first see how everything reacts.....


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dendrite
09/03/2017, 09:29 AM
I put kalkwasser in a 30 cc syringe with 20 gauge needle and injected the trunks of the Xenia. Worked pretty well, but like anything else you need to revisit in about a month. And repeat until no regrowth

karimwassef
09/03/2017, 10:06 AM
I have 24 sqft of area to treat. I can do manual removal for several hours but the point of this thread is to not do that.

Dipping, spraying, etc...

outssider
09/03/2017, 04:29 PM
don't you like the idea of injecting each one individually ???... boy are you lazy.....

karimwassef
09/03/2017, 05:20 PM
Yes. I enjoy some elements of this hobby.

Mind numbing painstaking manual labor for hours is not one of them.

Yes. I am lazy:
Human innovation is about using intelligence to serve our laziness.
Nature is about economy- how to get the most benefit with the least effort.

All philosophies converge - I am at peace with my desires.

Ihuntbugs
09/03/2017, 09:01 PM
Spray the damn things! LOL


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zoafarm
09/04/2017, 10:40 AM
The fast is yes. You can easily kill all softies without harming other corals.

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karimwassef
09/04/2017, 12:20 PM
The fast is yes. You can easily kill all softies without harming other corals.

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and the "how" ?

zoafarm
09/04/2017, 12:43 PM
You can use Fenbendazole (Fish Bendazole). I used it to remove blue clove polyps from my 150 gallon. It was super effective at killing blue clove, xenia, GSP, and waving hand. It did kill 2 out of 5 turbo snails; however, my SPS, LPS, Zoas, and fish all came through. The biggest issue is controlling the nutrient levels with the die off.

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karimwassef
09/04/2017, 01:03 PM
Do you recommend dipping or adding it directly to the tank?

2una
09/07/2017, 06:28 AM
You can use Fenbendazole (Fish Bendazole). I used it to remove blue clove polyps from my 150 gallon. It was super effective at killing blue clove, xenia, GSP, and waving hand. It did kill 2 out of 5 turbo snails; however, my SPS, LPS, Zoas, and fish all came through. The biggest issue is controlling the nutrient levels with the die off.

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Do you recommend dipping or adding it directly to the tank?

bump...also keen to read what you did

zoafarm
09/08/2017, 03:48 PM
The following is a detailed timeline of how I eradicated Blue Clove Polyps from my tank...6 months later I still do not have ANY Blue Cloves in my tank. Although I know this will kill Waving Hand, I have HIGH confidence that it would kill other softies.




Eradicating Blue Clove Polyps with Fenbendazole

After trying to control these little buggers, they finally won the battle and started spreading throughout my new display tank. Although blue clove polyps are very pretty in my opinion, they started growing over my Fruitloop zoas and interfering with the encrusting of my SPS. This was the final straw. I decided it was time to take drastic action.

After researching a bit, I found that years ago Fluke Tabs were the way to eradicate blue clove. The problem is those fluke tabs are not sold anymore. After a lot more reading, I came across threads where people had used the Fenbendazole in dewormer (Safeguard) to kill hydroids in tanks used to breed seahorses. Later individuals experimented with it in reef environments with mixed results. But what these experiments did note was effectiveness at killing many soft corals; to include, blue clove, star polyps, xenia, waving hand, and blue sympodium. On the bright side, it didn't effect zoas/palys, SPS, LPS, Clams, shrimp, or anemones. However, certain snails were at significant risk (Turbo snails).

After reading more, I was concerned about putting dog dewormer in my tank primarily because it was only 22% Fendendazole. This meant that 78% was OTHER stuff -- this really was the deal killer. Then I found "Fish Bendazole" -- 99% Fendendazole. I decided to place order.

My order came in 2 days later. I was still nervous about putting it in my tank so it sat on my counter for almost a month. Finally, I decided to go ahead and give it a try.

From what I could find, 1 250mg packet of fish bendazole will treat 250 gallons. My volume is approximately 140 gallons.

My mixture:

800ml of RO water
250mg of fish bendazole (1 packet)
I shook the hell out of it and let it stand for a couple hours. Then I shook the hell out of it again. The mixture was very cloudy and does not dissolve very well. After the final shake, I let it sit for about 30 minutes. After it settled a bit (still cloudy), I used a turkey baster to dose 400ml directly onto the largest blue clove populations -- note: I did not pull the liquid from the bottom of the jar: I didn't want to get anything that settled out. This was a one time dose.

Carbon and Phosban reactor was taking offline. I continued to run the skimmer, but put the air intake under water.

Observations:

25 Feb 17 - Dosed tank at 5:00pm

Tank has a cloudy appearance
Blue clove were irritated for a moment, but opened right back up
Everything else in the tank looks completely normal (I'm expecting Turbo Snails to die in the process)


26 Feb 17 - 11:00am

Tank has cleared up to normal conditions
Blue cloves are obviously ****ed off - polyps are smaller but open.
Everything else is showing no changes -- clam is open, shrimp out and about, fish normal, all other coral look like ever other day. :)


26 Feb 17 - 5:00pm

Blue cloves are really shrunk up -- really unhappy
Everything else is still good -- even the Turbo Snails are out and about (no effects)


27 Feb 17 - 6:00pm

Blue cloves are all closed up -- some seem to be turning a white color
Everything else still good


28 Feb 17 - 6:00pm

Blue cloves are still closed up -- some appear to be melting
Zoas/Palys that were crowded by blue cloves have opened up and look much better
Everything else looks great -- even Turbos


1 Mar 17 - 6:00pm

Blue cloves are a bunch of blue dots on the rock - clearly in bad shape.
Everything else remains fine.
I will continue to monitor; however, I'm extremely happy with the results. My guess is another week and they will be complete gone. Once I'm happy that every blue clove is gone, I will resume skimming and carbon/phosban reactor.


2 Mar 17 - 5:00pm

Still a lot of little blue dots on the rock, but a lot have just melted away. However, today I noticed a few zoas closed up (most of them are open as normal). This could be any number of reasons, but I decided to bring the skimmer online. I did leave the carbon/phosban offline.

As a note of interest, the skimmer is very active.


5 Mar 17 - 5:30pm

Nearly all the blue clove is gone. I have turned all the reactors / skimmer back on.

6 Mar 17 - 7:00pm

So, I'm a week into this treatment. Nearly all the blue clove are GONE...I still have a few light blue dot on a couple rocks, but none of them are open. I would call the treatment very effective. On the March 2nd I did notice a few zoas closed up, but nothing serious. So, I restarted the skimmer and reactors (but no water change). Although I did not have big concerns about the treatment and I didn't do any water tests, I was thinking I might be having a slight increase in ammonia due to the die off. Hence the reason I turned everything back on, I also added a poly pad and reduced my nitrate dosing to 30 ml.

Today, all my zoas are open and very happy (even look larger and brighter). All my other corals look normal (just like before the treatment or better). I do have 2 Turbo snails that look stunned, but the other turbos are moving about just like normal...Nerite snails are fine too. Today, I decided to go ahead and do a 20%+ water change...only because the blue clove are nearly all gone.


13 Mar 17 - 6:00pm

Three weeks in...All blue clove polyps are completely gone. I believe I had a slight cycle...my clam closed up, one SPS suffered some STN, Candy canes LPS don't look good, and I have some green algae. I stopped nitrate dosing for algae. Yesterday my clam opened back up...so I think I'm in the clear. :)

On the bright side...ALL blue cloves are gone. It also kills Waving Hand as well...I had some in the sump...GONE.

As a note, I think I would have had some issues if I would have had much more die off. If you have a lot of blue clove, I would have Water Changes ready to go.


Hope this helps someone. Super inexpensive and effective.

As a side note for new reefers, more is not better...slow and steady. Overdosing this product will likely have negative side effects. My guess would be snails and shrimp. Also note --- many softies may be effected by this treatment and the effects may be long-term (5 to 6 months...maybe longer). If you plan to have the corals I mentioned at the beginning of this post, DO NOT use this treatment.

Happy Reefing!

zoafarm
09/08/2017, 03:53 PM
All of this was in tank prior to dosing.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170908/0ec3263034c6169cbc2d143c7c6e6606.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170908/e0d38a2e87abdd2d33ace20ff6153767.jpg

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2una
09/08/2017, 04:48 PM
All of this was in tank prior to dosing.

Thanks for coming back - i did find your blog researching.
By any chance did you happen to have a goniopora/flowerpot in when you dosed at all? My suspicions are it should get removed but curious in case you did have one in.
Many thanks for posting your findings, going to try some Panacur 5%
liquid & see - also trying to get rid of problem xenia that are past kalking

zoafarm
09/08/2017, 04:54 PM
No I did not, but I would not run the risk.

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Zacktosterone
09/15/2017, 07:50 AM
pull the rock out and use a blow torch

orcafood
09/15/2017, 08:32 AM
I second dartier's suggestion to drop the nutrients. In the past when I have started to aggressively remove nutrients with carbon dosing, xenia, gsp and chaeto were always the first to go. Not sure if it was low nitrate or phosphate that did it though.

Fenbendazole seems like just what you want though haha

karimwassef
09/15/2017, 10:17 AM
Yup! got the fenbendazole to experiment.

If I drop feeding, my sps growth slows :(

No measurable N or P in the tank. Just food.

orcafood
09/15/2017, 10:30 AM
Even though you can't test such low levels you must have nitrate and phosphate. If you drop them even lower with carbon dosing many of the softies, especially the fast growing like gsp and xenia with melt away. I used to use xenia to gauge my carbon dosing, trying to just barely keep it alive. No need to stop feeding I think.

karimwassef
09/15/2017, 12:47 PM
No carbon dosing for me. Too unnatural imo. Also requires skimming which I won't do.

That's why I said "no measurable" N and P. There's always some but if it's below the kits, it doesn't matter. I like it just there- not measurable and constantly converted into my algal biomass as nature intended it.

karimwassef
09/15/2017, 12:49 PM
By the way, I did go for the ULNS and went deep into undetectable ranges so all algae died.

Unfortunately, that environment is perfect for bacteria and dinos and the tank turned into a septic tank of death...

Never again. I like nature in balance and I relish my algae... they're the most important organisms in my coral tank.

orcafood
09/15/2017, 02:30 PM
good luck with the fenbendazole!

karimwassef
09/15/2017, 03:50 PM
Thanks! I've had the packets for a couple of weeks but I keep stalling.
I love all my slugs and snail and worms... like a farmer loves earthworms.
I'm big on natural solutions so this makes me very uncomfortable.

2una
09/19/2017, 04:23 PM
Thanks! I've had the packets for a couple of weeks but I keep stalling.
I love all my slugs and snail and worms... like a farmer loves earthworms.
I'm big on natural solutions so this makes me very uncomfortable.

I also have it sitting here now & chickened out using it.
Gone back at them with kalk paste,muriatic acid they also aren't keen on but i think it needs to be injected....i tried a spray over & they sulked for a day but bounced back.
kalk sends alk & ph thru the roof,muriatic drops it...there's maybe a mix of the 2 that might lower the swing being so hectic.

Also tried the overloaded reactor with aluminium based phos remover & that did nothing.

Going see how this goes & if i can't win then filefish might be on the cards

karimwassef
09/19/2017, 05:00 PM
My filefish didn't eat Xenia. :(

2una
10/16/2017, 05:48 AM
My filefish didn't eat Xenia. :(

I lost it yesterday.... i kalked the hell out of them 2 weeks ago & get home from working away to find them all sprouting back up where they were again.
I dosed 2ml of liquid Panacur 5% & 24 hrs in they look to be becoming toast.(160-170G tank)
Snails were still feeding last night,clove polyps a little annoyed but not dieing....seems a lower dose is ok for just the xenia.
Will see how things look tomorrow as to whether i need to put more in but at present i don't think i'll need to.
This is what i could find here & what i used - http://www.msd-animal-health.co.za/products/panacur__bs/020_product_details.aspx

karimwassef
10/16/2017, 10:31 AM
Thanks for the feedback

2una
10/19/2017, 05:09 PM
Never dosed anymore than the original 2ml....
4 days later - xenia no more...just wilted over dead looking remains left to see,nothing else dead, snails fine,sea-apple fine,gonio's fine.
With that small dose i didn't see anything else looking effected other than the wee few clove polyps i have about.