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PietschBR
09/01/2017, 05:26 PM
So i believe i have an ich infection in my tank..


I understood that because of the parasite life cycle, the only way im gonna eliminate the problem i need to leave the tank without any fish for 8 weeks, is this right?

I have 14 fishes now, and at least 5 of them are presenting symptoms..

Should i take all of them out and treat with copper?
Also should i keep them in a hospital tank for all this time (at least 8 weeks)?

kryzzystuff
09/01/2017, 06:12 PM
If you want to be completely safe, do it for longer than 8 weeks. 72 days is the typically recommended duration of leaving your display fishless ("fallow"). Some people recommend to go even longer and do 90 days. This is what I've done, just to be on the safe side, even though I'm not aware of any hard data to support 90 days (there is good data to support 72 being necessary).

Yes, I would set up a hospital (quarantine) tank and leave them there for the entire fallow period of the display. Whether you use copper or another method to treat them is ultimately up to you. There are very good stickies on this site regarding treating ich and the pros and cons of each.

I hope this helped and I wish you all the best.

PietschBR
09/01/2017, 08:16 PM
If you want to be completely safe, do it for longer than 8 weeks. 72 days is the typically recommended duration of leaving your display fishless ("fallow"). Some people recommend to go even longer and do 90 days. This is what I've done, just to be on the safe side, even though I'm not aware of any hard data to support 90 days (there is good data to support 72 being necessary).



Thank you for the reply..

the more i read the more i understand that this is the only way to certainly eliminate the parasite.

As for the QT/Hospital tank, how large should it be to successfully house 14 fishes, including medium size 5 tangs, 2 small wrasses, 3 clowns and 3 damsels?

kryzzystuff
09/01/2017, 08:37 PM
As for the QT/Hospital tank, how large should it be to successfully house 14 fishes, including medium size 5 tangs, 2 small wrasses, 3 clowns and 3 damsels?

The ideal answer is large enough to provide a home for the fish long term. This is unrealistic in the majority of cases, and this is a short term holding, not a longterm home for them. So I would go with the largest you can accommodate without breaking the bank. 55g tanks are fairly inexpensive and readily available at most stores. That should be fine for this duration. Your tangs may scuffle in a smaller tank volume, depending on which ones you have. Certainly the bigger the better and if you have the funds and space for something larger, please go for it.

Jdub968
09/01/2017, 08:56 PM
Might be better to use two qt's keeping the wrasses in on separate they are cu sensetive and cp cannot be used on wrasses so you might be doing a ttm on the the others can be treated with cu

kryzzystuff
09/01/2017, 09:16 PM
Sure. But with two tanks you might just go ahead and TTM everything lol.

JustinM
09/01/2017, 11:25 PM
Definitely no to cp and wrasses. I have treated many wrasses with only one ever acting strange with cupramine, a flame wrasse. Chelated copper, like coppersafe, is pretty safe for wrasses.

JustinM
09/01/2017, 11:30 PM
A 55 gallon would probably work but if you can go bigger, I would. I run 3 and sometimes 4 qt's. I treat all fish with prazi after 2 days of being in qt and then they go straight to cupramine after the prazi is done. I have never had any fish act poorly besides the flame wrasse, but she still handled it for the whole duration.

Jdub968
09/02/2017, 12:13 AM
Sure. But with two tanks you might just go ahead and TTM everything lol.

This is true, I was think that many fish you would need two big tanks which makes sterilizing a pain and that's a lot of saltwater. Verse two 10 gallon tanks just for the wrasses.

kryzzystuff
09/02/2017, 07:17 AM
This is true, I was think that many fish you would need two big tanks which makes sterilizing a pain and that's a lot of saltwater. Verse two 10 gallon tanks just for the wrasses.

Oh I see what you meant haha. Yeah I think that's a good idea.

The plural of anecdote isn't data, as they say, but I too have had a dismal track record with wrasses in ionic copper. I've had 2 Lubbock's and a sixline die early during the process, despite raising the copper level slowly over a week. I had a McCosker's that made it through the process fine. Never tried CP with wrasses and def not planning to.

Jdub968
09/02/2017, 08:34 AM
Oh I see what you meant haha. Yeah I think that's a good idea.

The plural of anecdote isn't data, as they say, but I too have had a dismal track record with wrasses in ionic copper. I've had 2 Lubbock's and a sixline die early during the process, despite raising the copper level slowly over a week. I had a McCosker's that made it through the process fine. Never tried CP with wrasses and def not planning to.

Another option with cupramine is it's therapeutic on ick at .35 if you have no other option but to treat the wrasses with cu run .35 ppm and extend the treatment time a few weeks

JustinM
09/02/2017, 09:05 AM
Running copper at .35 is very risky. You are running too close to having no margin of error. The lowest I would go is .45. I have never seen a wrasse have any ill effects from cupramine. Just take it slow and they will handle it well.

JustinM
09/02/2017, 09:19 AM
Oh I see what you meant haha. Yeah I think that's a good idea.

The plural of anecdote isn't data, as they say, but I too have had a dismal track record with wrasses in ionic copper. I've had 2 Lubbock's and a sixline die early during the process, despite raising the copper level slowly over a week. I had a McCosker's that made it through the process fine. Never tried CP with wrasses and def not planning to.

I am willing to bet that there was an ammonia issue or some other problem over the copper. Yes wrasses are more sensitive, but ime it is more to do with ammonia or oxygen exchange. Wrasses are also very sensitive to pH swings which can easily happen in a qt. My qt is run with a sump and with a jebao pointing up directly at the surface with an airline directly into the powerhead.

A six line is one the the hardiest fish out there. I highly doubt the copper had to do with its death. I have treated multiple flame wrasses, a lineatus, rhomboid, leopard, mccoskers just to name a few. A lot of people blame ionic copper for fish deaths when I believe them to be more ammonia related. In more times than not, a qt is set up very quickly when parameters are very unstable.

kryzzystuff
09/02/2017, 09:52 AM
I am willing to bet that there was an ammonia issue or some other problem over the copper. Yes wrasses are more sensitive, but ime it is more to do with ammonia or oxygen exchange. Wrasses are also very sensitive to pH swings which can easily happen in a qt. My qt is run with a sump and with a jebao pointing up directly at the surface with an airline directly into the powerhead.

A six line is one the the hardiest fish out there. I highly doubt the copper had to do with its death. I have treated multiple flame wrasses, a lineatus, rhomboid, leopard, mccoskers just to name a few. A lot of people blame ionic copper for fish deaths when I believe them to be more ammonia related. In more times than not, a qt is set up very quickly when parameters are very unstable.

You raise a very good point in general, but this was not an issue with my tank. My QT is a cycled established set up that is constantly running. There is no detectable ammonia. I too use an airline powerhead combo, so I doubt oxygenation was an issue; impossible? no, but for one fish in a 20g that should provide enough oxygen.

The only fish I have lost in qt with copper, ever, have been wrasses. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying I have all the answers or discouraging the practice. There are countless variables at play, always.