PDA

View Full Version : Hawaii Supreme Court Ruling Halts Aquarium Fishery


ThRoewer
09/07/2017, 11:04 PM
https://www.reef2rainforest.com/2017/09/07/hawaii-supreme-court-ruling-halts-aquarium-fishery/

Papermonkeys
09/08/2017, 02:36 PM
As someone who grew up in Hawaii, I saw a definite decline in fish that I would see while out in the ocean from when I was younger to now. By all means I don't think aquariums are to blame though. I know tons of people who go out there over fish (spearfishing) just for fun which ain't cool. Kinda related side story: The manager at my LFS was telling me a story about how his supplier had 2500+ yellow tangs and he said that they should put some back (joking but not joking hah) and the guy just laughed.

ThRoewer
09/08/2017, 03:03 PM
I don't think that responsibly collecting (= no cyanide and only taking smaller specimen while leaving the adult breeders behind) for the aquarium trade is generally to blame for declining numbers of fish.
These days the preferred specimen are smaller juveniles or subadults anyway and not the larger breeding individuals that were often collected in the past. Most Fish you find these days in stores are not much older than a year and if there is any impact of removing them from the wild it is more towards predators feeding on them then the collected species.
Unfortunately, the larger specimen are these days more and more targeted for human consumption.

Power boats, jet-skis and tourism in general do more harm.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Alexraptor
09/08/2017, 06:44 PM
Wait... people actually eat Yellow Tangs? O.o

I mean I can see a south American Oscar on a dinner plate, but tangs just seem like more bones than meat.

ThRoewer
09/08/2017, 07:12 PM
Wait... people actually eat Yellow Tangs? O.o

I mean I can see a south American Oscar on a dinner plate, but tangs just seem like more bones than meat.

Probably not Yellow Tangs as they stay rather small, but large angels, wrasses and even tangs land quite regularly on the grill. If you visit fish markets in the countries where our fish come from you will find many beloved friends up for sale as dinner:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=379460&stc=1&d=1504918363
Caribbean, St. Lucia, Tropical Fish For Sale On The Market. (http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/caribbean-st-lucia-tropical-fish-for-sale-on-the-market-news-photo/453153858#caribbean-st-lucia-tropical-fish-for-sale-on-the-market-picture-id453153858)

http://www.congo-pages.org/et/Marine_Resources/dili2.jpg

https://thumb7.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/2051897/681597985/stock-photo-naha-japan-jul-blue-parrot-fish-and-other-tropical-fish-for-sale-at-a-seafood-market-in-681597985.jpg

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=379465&stc=1&d=1504920039
http://eddie-coral-adventures.blogspot.com/2008/02/bali-fish-market.html

Papermonkeys
09/09/2017, 11:18 AM
Ha, ya sorry I was a little confusing in my post. I know people don't really eat yellow tangs or most other fish we like to keep. But I just meant in general people overfish there. I think parrot fish is commonly consumed even though there are tons of better tasting fish (I wouldn't know I don't eat any type of seafood haha)

chgoblknazn
09/13/2017, 12:24 PM
Probably not Yellow Tangs as they stay rather small, but large angels, wrasses and even tangs land quite regularly on the grill. If you visit fish markets in the countries where our fish come from you will find many beloved friends up for sale as dinner:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=379460&stc=1&d=1504918363
Caribbean, St. Lucia, Tropical Fish For Sale On The Market. (http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/caribbean-st-lucia-tropical-fish-for-sale-on-the-market-news-photo/453153858#caribbean-st-lucia-tropical-fish-for-sale-on-the-market-picture-id453153858)

http://www.congo-pages.org/et/Marine_Resources/dili2.jpg

https://thumb7.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/2051897/681597985/stock-photo-naha-japan-jul-blue-parrot-fish-and-other-tropical-fish-for-sale-at-a-seafood-market-in-681597985.jpg

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=379465&stc=1&d=1504920039
http://eddie-coral-adventures.blogspot.com/2008/02/bali-fish-market.html


I had parrotfish while I was vacationing in Fiji. The market was full of adult sized fish for our host to pick from. They were delicious!!

flsalty
09/18/2017, 08:31 AM
This has nothing to do with conservation. Hawaii is one of the most studied fisheries. None of these fish are in any danger of being threatened.

If you look into who pushed for this, you will find people who don't think fish should be kept in glass boxes. The Humane Society, For The Fishes, Center for Biological Diversity, etc.

ThRoewer
09/18/2017, 02:57 PM
This has nothing to do with conservation. Hawaii is one of the most studied fisheries. None of these fish are in any danger of being threatened.

If you look into who pushed for this, you will find people who don't think fish should be kept in glass boxes. The Humane Society, For The Fishes, Center for Biological Diversity, etc.You forgot Snorkel Bob...

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Papermonkeys
09/19/2017, 12:46 PM
Lol ThRoewer. And ya flsalty the governor, already planning to veto I'm pretty sure

Punchanello
09/21/2017, 12:05 AM
People in the hobby can argue all they want that the Hawaiian (or any other) fisheries in question are protected, sustainable and well regulated and that the industry is a victim of environmentalist groups. It may be true, but frankly nobody is listening. If they are listening then they're thinking, "well, they would say that wouldn't they? They have a financial or recreational interest".

Is collection, transport and captivity the best outcome for the individual fish? No, it's not in all likelihood. To defend the industry on the grounds that it is sustainable, that aquarists are the ultimate environmentalist and stewards when tangs are sold for the cost of meal, is an unwinnable argument.

The only way to defend the hobby is also the only way to ensure its environmental sustainability and future. We need to "offset" the impact of what we do by demonstrating rigorous, pro-active self-regulation (evidence based traceability, standards, codes of conduct), invest and participate in grass roots environmental stewardship, invest in philanthropic support of scientific research and spend money on demonstrating the educational, environmental, ecological and biological research and "good-will" benefits of private and public aquariums. The key is not to be defensive or rail against greenies because you can't win when they hold the moral high ground and because for the most part they aren't nefarious fun wreckers, and share the same concern for the species we do.

flsalty
09/24/2017, 02:03 AM
People in the hobby can argue all they want that the Hawaiian (or any other) fisheries in question are protected, sustainable and well regulated and that the industry is a victim of environmentalist groups. It may be true, but frankly nobody is listening. If they are listening then they're thinking, "well, they would say that wouldn't they? They have a financial or recreational interest".

Is collection, transport and captivity the best outcome for the individual fish? No, it's not in all likelihood. To defend the industry on the grounds that it is sustainable, that aquarists are the ultimate environmentalist and stewards when tangs are sold for the cost of meal, is an unwinnable argument.

The only way to defend the hobby is also the only way to ensure its environmental sustainability and future. We need to "offset" the impact of what we do by demonstrating rigorous, pro-active self-regulation (evidence based traceability, standards, codes of conduct), invest and participate in grass roots environmental stewardship, invest in philanthropic support of scientific research and spend money on demonstrating the educational, environmental, ecological and biological research and "good-will" benefits of private and public aquariums. The key is not to be defensive or rail against greenies because you can't win when they hold the moral high ground and because for the most part they aren't nefarious fun wreckers, and share the same concern for the species we do.

Except for one thing. I am a greenie. I'm just not an idiot. While I agree that more should be done to educate the public, those people with the "moral high ground" are lying. So not only do we need to further education, we need to fight propaganda. The only way to fight propaganda is to call them out on it.

MurphyLong
09/25/2017, 09:37 AM
The Blue Hippo Tang is commonly used as bait... Just thought I'd throw that out there... No pun intended.

d0ughb0y
09/25/2017, 03:22 PM
I had parrotfish while I was vacationing in Fiji. The market was full of adult sized fish for our host to pick from. They were delicious!!

my local supermarket sells freshly caught parrot fish.

"labahita" is very common, translated as surgeon fish, aka tangs.

alprazo
09/25/2017, 08:22 PM
People in the hobby can argue all they want that the Hawaiian (or any other) fisheries in question are protected, sustainable and well regulated and that the industry is a victim of environmentalist groups. It may be true, but frankly nobody is listening. If they are listening then they're thinking, "well, they would say that wouldn't they? They have a financial or recreational interest".

Is collection, transport and captivity the best outcome for the individual fish? No, it's not in all likelihood. To defend the industry on the grounds that it is sustainable, that aquarists are the ultimate environmentalist and stewards when tangs are sold for the cost of meal, is an unwinnable argument.

The only way to defend the hobby is also the only way to ensure its environmental sustainability and future. We need to "offset" the impact of what we do by demonstrating rigorous, pro-active self-regulation (evidence based traceability, standards, codes of conduct), invest and participate in grass roots environmental stewardship, invest in philanthropic support of scientific research and spend money on demonstrating the educational, environmental, ecological and biological research and "good-will" benefits of private and public aquariums. The key is not to be defensive or rail against greenies because you can't win when they hold the moral high ground and because for the most part they aren't nefarious fun wreckers, and share the same concern for the species we do.

Look to "Ducks Unlimited." A conservation group that is run by duck hunters. The suggested approach has worked quite well. Great idea!

Punchanello
09/26/2017, 12:00 AM
I'm not suggesting that the industry should be disingenuous or try to pull the wool over anyone's eyes. Just stop pretending that trade is without harm and get involved in conservation if it is serious about sustainability.

alton
09/26/2017, 05:20 AM
Hawaii is the most studied and documented collection area in the world. There are a lot of articles in Coral magazine.

laverda
10/22/2017, 02:15 AM
The last time I was in Hi, some of the bays were totally silted over killing almost all the coral there. I suspect loss of habitat from pollution and run off are very large contributors to decreasing fish populations. It sure seamed it was from what I saw.

Maui Don
11/06/2017, 09:57 PM
I live on Maui on the West side. 1968 was my first trip here and I've seen lots of change both in the water and land. There are many things taking our fish from us. I would say collecting would be the smallest. Endless building that silts the water, spear fishing just for the sport of it, netting and many other things. Spear fishing is one of the worst because it's so unfair and easy. Some folks to it at night, no sport at all. The guys and gals that do it want the biggest fish, those are the ones that reproduce of course. I've seen net fisherman dump long nose butterfly fish in the rocks instead of back in the water. Time shares and hotels are killing the reefs with the fertilizers that make the beautiful gardens. It seeps through the porous rock into the reef. I check the areas that I dive every month or so. Some areas have sky high nitrates. I would never put that water in my own aquarium. As for me? I only collect young fish for my aquarium. If they don't settle down in three or four days I take them back where I collected them. If they grow to large for my tank, they go back. I have only lost one fish in the six years I have been keeping a salt water aquarium. Just my thoughts on the subject. Don

saf1
11/16/2017, 07:18 PM
Double standards - and another nanny state. I was diving there a few months back and the dive masters collected for their home use. One went so far to collect it at depth, filled his emergency sausage has a lift bag, and had the boat collect it. Now mind you we are at around 90 or so feet down and we all did our safety stops accordingly. Fish - not so much. I boarded the boat, looked in the bucket, and saw the little fella on its side. All I could say is man, you guys need to stop doing that crap and release it. At least it will have a chance.

Filed a complaint on my way out and that is it. Maui and the rest of the islands are beautiful but your politicians and nanny laws are going to ruin it. Much like what is happening to us in California. Don't get me wrong - this hobby is one that can be self sustaining in most cases. Especially with corals and some of the easier breading fish. Manage your agriculture, manage the water run off, manage your waste, and above all manage the tourists and their sunscreen.

I did see more fish and coral this time around compared to previous visits which honestly surprised me. Something is going right. But I don't think it is restricting the collection for home use. Then again I very well could be ignorant of the subject.

Edit: I will also add that I've had parrot fish among others. I lived in Okinawa Japan for four years and did lots of spear fishing with the locals. Same while in the Philippians. Tangs would be a no. Not enough meat on them.

shrimpinator123
04/13/2018, 06:43 PM
Any update on this?

homer1475
04/15/2018, 02:31 AM
Curious as well if there have been any updates on this?

alton
04/16/2018, 06:57 PM
https://www.reef2rainforest.com/2018/04/13/a-pulse-check-on-hawaiis-aquarium-fishing-ban-draft-assessments-published/

shrimpinator123
04/17/2018, 11:38 AM
So, if I am reading that correctly, it looks like Hawaii might open aquarium fisheries back up?

shrimpinator123
04/17/2018, 11:41 AM
It seems to just be reaffirming what we knew before: aquarium fishing has little impact on the reefs.

alton
04/23/2018, 08:02 AM
https://www.reef2rainforest.com/2018/04/20/hawaii-bans-amateur-collection-of-live-marine-fishes/

homer1475
04/23/2018, 09:36 AM
https://www.reef2rainforest.com/2018/04/20/hawaii-bans-amateur-collection-of-live-marine-fishes/

Looks like it's still banned for the aquarium trade, but you can fish(pole and hook, spearfishing, etc) and kill any reef fish without a permit. Makes no sense.

Daltonbilecki
04/23/2018, 03:47 PM
Yep... absolutely stupid. They think taking the smallest fish alive is worse than taking the biggest reproducing fish out there... I also have property in Maui and only see yellow tangs on the very southern part of the island. Luckily you can still collect fish as long as its not for commercial use. I think people there disregard spear fishing as harming the fish population because they’ve been doing it for generations, whereas the ornamental fish trade has only been around for maybe 40 years


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

homer1475
04/24/2018, 02:06 AM
After thinking about it. I feel their stance is at least with regard to sport fishing/fishing for food, your only taking a few fish a day. With the aquarium trade they are taking hundreds a day.

If you look at this way, you can kind of understand where they are going with it.

alton
04/24/2018, 05:25 AM
I have never seen a commercial fisherman only take a few fish a day? The picture you and I posted shows just a few in just one market.

homer1475
04/24/2018, 07:05 AM
From what I read, only sport fishing is allowed. No commercial fishing.

Hence their stance and why they took it. Still doesn't make any sense, but its progress and looks as though the ban should be lifted with the new studies.

alton
04/24/2018, 11:52 AM
This from one of the collectors in Hawaii
CALL TO ACTION BELOW PLEASE HELP US HELP YOU GET CHEAPER FISH AND MORE HAWAII FISH

Just in stock 4 achilles, 3 mustard, 6 Unicorn Lg,1 small broomtail file one of the smallest I have ever collected (15 inches). Also In sotck 20 male cross hatch, 16 female cross hatch and 2 smaller female cross hatch, 6 Bandit Angels 2- 3.25 to 4 inch, 2- 4.5 to 7 inches rest >7, 1 male dragon eel large, golden dwarf eels, 45 Show 10 inch to 7 inch med Yellow tangs, fishers, four spot butterflies, long nose butterflies, naos tangs large streamers and many others see list attached. In stock soon more flame wrasses., 150 smaller yellows, butterflies and kole. Sphex Lion Fish Hawaiian, small Japanese squirrel, feather dusters, hermits, sponges, armored urchins and many others.
20 naso tangs streamers med to xxlg, and many others see list attached.
In stock hard to get fish are the two small golden dwarf eels, show size sailfin tangs, niger triggers, goat fish xxlg colored, yellow harry hermits, purple star fish, pink nobby star fish, strawberry crabs,
Christmas Island fish arrive Tuesday tomorrow, we expect then goldflakes, declivis, 150 flame angels (some in stock now), 90 bartletts. Ordered black and one emperors etc. NO ONE RECIVED CXI FISH LAST WEEK THE FLIGHT WAS FULL. See list attached.
Thanks, RT Distributors
CALL TO ACTION
WE HOPE TO GET OUR SMALL MESH NETS PERMITS BACK SOON BUT TO DO SO WE NEED EVERYONES HELP BY SENDING A SHORT EMAIL

shrimpinator123
04/24/2018, 03:32 PM
It is suprising to me that they would rather see the Achilles tangs on ice rather then in someone's tank

teddscau
04/29/2018, 05:55 PM
Or if people can't be convinced not to spearfish, at least target invasive species >_>.

shred5
04/29/2018, 06:08 PM
The last time I was in Hi, some of the bays were totally silted over killing almost all the coral there. I suspect loss of habitat from pollution and run off are very large contributors to decreasing fish populations. It sure seamed it was from what I saw.

There is no decline in fish populations matter of fact yellow tang populations in Hawaii are increasing pretty fast and that is the number one collected fish in Hawaii.. There have been several studies proving this the last few years.

Matter of fact this is going to lead to a big increase in tang prices and more deaths because now we will rely on tangs from farther places.


I do believe in conservation and management. If a fish is in decline we should limit or end it period if need be but this is not it.

shred5
04/29/2018, 06:21 PM
I'm not suggesting that the industry should be disingenuous or try to pull the wool over anyone's eyes. Just stop pretending that trade is without harm and get involved in conservation if it is serious about sustainability.

While I agree that we need to do a better job all the way from collection to the tank, there are too many losses.

The hobby provides education and give people a reason to protect the ocean. It adds value to a reef giving a reason for the people who collect the fish and coral to protect them..

This hobby has come a long way.. If it were not for the hobby we would not be able to breed or propagate coral. There have been so many advances in aquaculture, mariculture, breeding of fish all because of the hobby.

shrimpinator123
05/03/2018, 10:58 AM
Is there any hope in getting the ban lifted? Or are the animal rights groups just going to block everything?

shred5
05/03/2018, 11:13 AM
I doubt it with this:
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/03/most-sunscreens-may-soon-be-banned-in-hawaii-coral-reefs-are-dying.html

And with Renee Umberger being on the board...


Also after this Sea Shepard will probably move on to other areas and try getting them shut down.

homer1475
05/03/2018, 11:48 AM
It's only a bill, still needs to be signed by the governor.

Whats next, banning people all together from going in the ocean?

I would like to see them try to enforce it. They can make all the the laws they want, enforcing them is the hard part. That bill will effectively kill Hawaii's tourism.

alton
05/03/2018, 02:03 PM
Well no more tourism I guess they can start collecting fish again? For me I like going to the beach around 5 pm, no worries about getting burned or having to add sunscreen. When I have pool parties they always start around six pm and unless it is a baby or small child no sunscreen allowed.

shrimpinator123
05/08/2018, 05:47 PM
It is surprising that nobody looks at the science behind it. And if anybody brings up those facts, the animal rights groups say that they were paid off by the pet industry.