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View Full Version : How will the change in Hawaiian law affect the hobby


bobkill
09/08/2017, 10:00 PM
As the title says , I am wondering with the recent change in law in Hawaii, what will the expectations be to the common or average hobbyist ?
No more chevrons?

CoralsAddiction
09/08/2017, 10:56 PM
I'm curious to follow this from the legal standpoint more than aquarium industry effects. This law could be short lived if the fishing industry lobbies hard. It'd be interesting to see if any side will invoke Interstate Commerce clause since the ocean is technically "navigable" and is subject to federal regulation. I'm no expert in maritime law but this legal process should be very interesting to follow.
Potentially competing interests are: burden on interstate commerce vs. state's interest in protecting its resources.
Any maritime lawyers or consitutional law professors on this forum feel free to chime in. Lol

ThRoewer
09/08/2017, 11:17 PM
First off, there was no change in the law. The ruling was that the issuing of the collection permits didn't follow current law.

Also, as of now all issued permits stay valid until they expire. Only new permits or renewals will not be issued (until the proceeding to follow the law are met).

d-man
09/09/2017, 09:37 AM
As the title says , I am wondering with the recent change in law in Hawaii, what will the expectations be to the common or average hobbyist ?
No more chevrons?

Lol, chevrons...

humaguy
09/09/2017, 11:19 AM
Lol, chevrons...

is there a laughing emoji with coffee coming out its nose? there should be..

Derek is a silly goose...funny!

ThRoewer
09/09/2017, 01:44 PM
I don't have much interest in Hawaiian fish, so I don't expect it to affect me much. I am however concerned that this could become a starting point for more to come.

The whole thing is coming from those activists that in their most extreme want to outlaw having pets (and of course farm animals) entirely.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

CoralsAddiction
09/09/2017, 03:26 PM
The whole thing is coming from those activists that in their most extreme want to outlaw having pets (and of course farm animals) entirely.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Weren't you the one who wants to ban all designer clownfishes for sale? LOL :lmao::rollface:
Just a joke by the way.

d-man
09/09/2017, 11:46 PM
is there a laughing emoji with coffee coming out its nose? there should be..

Derek is a silly goose...funny!

Lol thanks Ted

joejoe1055
09/10/2017, 07:31 PM
most of the buzz fish wise has been about the yellow tang

hogfanreefer
09/10/2017, 09:10 PM
We dove Kona last year. I looked through my pictures last night....several hundred. I couldn't find a single picture that wasn't a close up that didn't have at least one yellow tang in it. They are protected in 70% of their range and their numbers are increasing by all estimates.

This is not about the fishery at all. It's about an agenda. As THRoewer said, they won't be happy till any use of animals by man is outlawed.

ca1ore
09/12/2017, 10:29 PM
I don't pay all that much attention to where fish come from ..... Anything sourced from H that cannot be found elsewhere?

CoralsAddiction
09/12/2017, 11:12 PM
I don't pay all that much attention to where fish come from ..... Anything sourced from H that cannot be found elsewhere?

Yellow Tang (for the most part), Kole tang, Potters Angel, Hawaiian flame wrasse, white spotted puffer.. just to name a few.
Petco still has many of the Hawaiian fishes for sale at their stores.

Kremis
09/12/2017, 11:21 PM
one of my LFS had about 50 yellow tangs for 20$ each, dont think they got the memo. I think that some yellow tangs are found outside of hawaii, so they wont be impossible to obtain. prob see a price increase though

Half Vaped
09/13/2017, 01:01 AM
Yellow Tang (for the most part), Kole tang, Potters Angel, Hawaiian flame wrasse, white spotted puffer.. just to name a few.
Petco still has many of the Hawaiian fishes for sale at their stores.

Not to mention some of Hawaii's swankier offerings, like the Bandit Angel, Personatus Angel, Tinkeri Butterfly and Yellow Anthias.

CoralsAddiction
09/13/2017, 01:30 AM
I think that some yellow tangs are found outside of hawaii, so they wont be impossible to obtain. prob see a price increase though

Some make it to Guam but outside of that I don't know how far and how many. Video below shows one in Guam.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TxVLDkO_myE

alton
09/13/2017, 05:57 AM
The following is what RT Distributors posted
NEWS Update! See at end for more details. Hawaii Supreme Court is requiring all Hawaii aquarium fish permit holders to do an EIS study. DLNR has stopped issuing or renewing any more permits. Worst case if we lose our small mesh net permits we can only fish with nets of 2 inch mesh or bigger. That means smaller fishlike wrasses may be hard to come by from Hawaii at the time our permits expire. My permit is good for 10 months and luckily my diver's permits are good for 11 months. Many others are not so lucky with only a month or two left; so there is a legal push to rectify this now. Help us with the fight now at end below. The fishery studies have already been done and we are sustainable and fish counts are up so the whole thing is just another permit process just added on. Hopefully we can use our permits until the EIS id done and that is what the big legal push is for.

The problem was when some aquarist saw the ruling they went out and bought up yellow tangs just because they thought they would not be available in the future. Creating a yellow tang shortage, and now having a tang they probably did not want but got caught up in the hype and made a bad purchase.

ca1ore
09/13/2017, 08:27 AM
Again, I'm woefully uninformed on this issue frankly ..... but who wouldn't be in favor of ensuring the collection process is sustainable, and limiting that collection to sustainable practices. Absent foolish collection approaches like cyanide and dynamite, I've always thought that the ornamental trade is unlikely to be a major contributor to fish stocks - certainly not compared to food fishing and the like. I tend to not get my knickers in a twist over these things because they usually end up being less dramatic than the initial sensationalist reports suggest.

d-man
09/13/2017, 09:25 AM
Yes the problem is currently that the permits are annual, so unless a collector renewed their permits recently it's most likely going to effect a lot of them in the next 6ish months.
Also because their has been such a big financial push to get this done its has more drive than the smaller collectors who can't spend $$$ to fight back. So overturning it is pretty unlikely. I mean we know how our government never has hidden agendas or $$$ going in the back pocket from interest groups....oh wait never mind.
It will effect our hobby 100%. Maybe not a huge portion initially, but at some point 3-5yrs there will be an effect.

Half Vaped
09/13/2017, 10:06 AM
I think it's still too early to freak out. From what I understand, permit renewal and issuance is only prohibited until further studies are made and reviewed by state agencies.

Most of the scientific studies seem to support that Hawaii's aquarium fish collection industry is sustainable. Since most of Hawaii's politicians are from the party that believe climate change is man-made, there's a chance that science will prevail.

brett559
09/13/2017, 10:59 AM
Stock up on yellow tangs now!!!!!

ThRoewer
09/13/2017, 10:12 PM
If it was just for Yellow Tangs I would just say good riddance. But this goes much further.

Again, I'm woefully uninformed on this issue frankly ..... but who wouldn't be in favor of ensuring the collection process is sustainable, and limiting that collection to sustainable practices. Absent foolish collection approaches like cyanide and dynamite, I've always thought that the ornamental trade is unlikely to be a major contributor to fish stocks - certainly not compared to food fishing and the like. I tend to not get my knickers in a twist over these things because they usually end up being less dramatic than the initial sensationalist reports suggest.

I don't think money is the issue alone - the collectors would definitely get support from Aquarium organizations and possibly also companies like Petco.
There is also no need to get this overturned as it isn't a ban. The court just found that the current process of issuing permits doesn't follow existing laws. What is needed is an impact evaluation how the capture affects the numbers of the collected fish.

albano
10/28/2017, 04:04 PM
First off, there was no change in the law. The ruling was that the issuing of the collection permits didn't follow current law.

Also, as of now all issued permits stay valid until they expire. Only new permits or renewals will not be issued (until the proceeding to follow the law are met).

Apparently that just changed
All valid licenses have been suspended. There is no legal collection effective immediately.

http://m.hawaiinewsnow.com/hawaiinewsnow/db_352775/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=FlhtwFVs

d-man
10/28/2017, 07:47 PM
Yeah this hurts

Apparently that just changed
All valid licenses have been suspended. There is no legal collection effective immediately.

http://m.hawaiinewsnow.com/hawaiinewsnow/db_352775/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=FlhtwFVs

caribfan
10/28/2017, 09:26 PM
I'm obviously not an expert on the geography and collection laws in this island chain, but is the ruling specific to just Hawaii (the big island??).

Are any of the outlying island affected, Kona, etc...

albano
10/28/2017, 09:42 PM
I'm obviously not an expert on the geography and collection laws in this island chain, but is the ruling specific to just Hawaii (the big island??).

Are any of the outlying island affected, Kona, etc...

All islands of the state