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TimmyD16
09/10/2017, 11:52 AM
Hi All!

So I'm in the process of planning out a system and I just couldn't really find an of the shelf LED fixture that I was in love with, so I'm deciding to build my own!

First I want to outline my design goals:

Full specturm
High CRI factor
Small footprint (pendent(ish) style)
Customizable
Ability to grow all coral


Next some justification for those goals, the first being full spectrum; I want the light to be as natural as possible, my goal for the tank as a whole will be to try and recreate nature as it exists in, well, nature. I want to carry this to the light as well, I'm just not a huge fan of the super atinic look of some royal blue heavy fixtures that some people really like and have good luck with, just not my thing. Next goal is a high CRI factor, I want to carry over that natural feel to me when observing the tank or taking pictures of the tank, and this means that I want all the colors to appear to their best ability. A small footprint, plain and simple just looks better in my opinion, and the tank is for me so my opinion matters A LOT. Wanting to have the fixture customizable is no brainer, I just want the ability to tune in the spectrum and look of the light. Ability to grow all coral is another no brainer, I want a reef tank and corals are part of a reef.

So now the specifics of the light, I will be actively cooling a 100mmx100mmx25mm pin heatsink, which gives me enough room to fit 16 20mm LED starboards, which I will be separating into 4 separately controlled channels. The channel outline and specifics are as follows:
Ch. 1 - Base White - 2 Cree XP-G3 Neutral White & 2 Cree XP-G3 Warm White
Ch. 2 - Base Royal Blue - 4 Cree XP-G3 Royal Blue
Ch. 3 - Aux Growth - 2 Cree XP-E2 Blue & 1 SemiLED True Violet &1 SemiLED Hyper Voilet
Ch. 4 - Color Fill - 1 Luxeon Rebel ES Lime & 1 Luxeon Rebel ES Cyan & 1 Cree XP-E Red & 1 SemiLED Ultra Violet UVA

So now to ask for some advice, with my design goals in mind how does that spectrum and LED mix look? I'm thinking of maybe replacing one of the XP-G3 Blues with another Violet? And assuming about 3W from each LED (I won't be driving the whites at a full 2A), is this enough light to fit over a 25gal Lagoon tank (footprint of 24"x17"x12") and grow all coral types? Or will I need two?

Thanks for the help everyone! looking forward to the advice and in the end building this thing!

TimmyD16
09/10/2017, 12:21 PM
Changing it up already.... opting for the Cree XT-E Royal Blue instead of the XP-G3... they look like better LEDs...

lingwendil
09/10/2017, 02:49 PM
CRI only really matters for your base whites, you are guaranteed to hate the look of true high CRI lighting over a Reef, a macro or planted tank may look ok...

As you have it now, that arrangement will give you a very warm 9000-1000k look... I would suggest another pair of royal blues personally, especially since you have the lime in the lineup.

If using neutral and warm whites as a base the reds aren't really needed, I've always ended up dimming them way down to off on neutral/warm based builds.

What would save some bucks, and give much improved color rendition, would be to go with a Bridgelux Vero 90 CRI white in the ~4000K range as your base, these will replace 2-4 Cree whites a piece, at only a few bucks each, while offering less wiring work to boot. The difference on these compared to the offerings from Cree are night and day-

Bridgelux VERO Decor 4000k 90CRI white BXRC-40G1000-B-23 (https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/bridgelux/BXRC-40G1000-B-23/976-1272-ND/)

Using these you can get away without supplementing a warm white, although if going this route it might be fun to leave a 660nm red in there for color tuning.

You can also try out the Neutral whites from Citizen, they are 97CRI and look amazing when paired with a handful of royal blues, I have a few and they are a very, very nice LED-

Citizen 4000k 90CRI Neutral white CLU028-1203C4-403H7K4 (https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/citizen/CLU028-1203C4-403H7K4/1642-1476-ND/)

TimmyD16
09/10/2017, 03:03 PM
Double post, sorry

TimmyD16
09/10/2017, 05:49 PM
@lingwendil

Those whites look great! plus it would leave me some space to put in a couple more Royal Blue LEDs!

So would 6 Royal Blue be enough to match up with one of those white COBs you think?

oreo57
09/10/2017, 06:33 PM
Just to throw some "alternate" whites..
Luminus devices "Studio" 5600k 95 CRI- $13.85 each
and a new kid w/ a higher K value:
http://www.qualiteitems.com/images/ldspec.JPG


and a new kid w/ a higher K value:
"Fresh fish" 6500k

http://www.qualiteitems.com/images/fish.JPG

Fish LUXEON CoB 1208 3325 3694 118L/ W 900mA 15 L2C5-FS001208E1500

Just throwing these out there..

lingwendil
09/10/2017, 08:13 PM
^ hey!

You lurking over here too?

Yeah, I would love to try the "fresh fish" but only if adding some red or a warm white in conjunction, at least with a reef array...

lingwendil
09/10/2017, 08:20 PM
@lingwendil

Those whites look great! plus it would leave me some space to put in a couple more Royal Blue LEDs!

So would 6 Royal Blue be enough to match up with one of those white COBs you think?

Should be, most people dim the whites considerably, so that with two of the regular blues should be a good starting point, I prefer a 20k look myself, but this should get you a good 10-14k look, and adding the cyan and lime will help brighten things up too.

TimmyD16
09/10/2017, 08:36 PM
interesting @oreo57, those two look like good choices, I have been away for a bit and didn't realize all the new options for COB LEDs.

Though I don't know how I would feel using an LED that is designed for super markets that sell "fresh fish"... haha

lingwendil
09/10/2017, 10:17 PM
Yeah, the fresh fish looks like a decent cool white with cyan/regular blue already taken care of. It would be really interesting to pair it with some reds in a larger array.

The Citizen 97CRI 4000k is my current pet CoB, but I really like the 90CRI vero decor series, even the 5600k looks good, but I'm using that in a mix over a freshwater planted with a handful of other LEDs to great effect.

TimmyD16
09/10/2017, 11:19 PM
So would that fixture, with the white CoB LED and two additional Royal Blues, be enough to grow any type of coral in a 25gal Lagoon tank?

perkint
09/11/2017, 06:06 AM
Changing it up already.... opting for the Cree XT-E Royal Blue instead of the XP-G3... they look like better LEDs...
What makes you say that? Generally the XP-G3 is better than the XT-E. Cree haven't added the XP-G3 RB to their product comparison tool (last time I checked) and their own info isn't hugely explicit, but suggests:
XT-E up to 600mW at 85C
XP-G3 up to 680mW at 25C

Tim

lingwendil
09/11/2017, 08:54 AM
25 lagoon? What are the measurements and intended livestock? You would probably be good with SPS but it depends on the height.

What makes you say that? Generally the XP-G3 is better than the XT-E. Cree haven't added the XP-G3 RB to their product comparison tool (last time I checked) and their own info isn't hugely explicit, but suggests:
XT-E up to 600mW at 85C
XP-G3 up to 680mW at 25C

Tim

What are the numbers of the XP-G3 at 85C? Probably a more realistic comparison, but it should still be pretty close.

I'm a LumiLEDs guy when it comes to royal blue, personally, but the Crees have the advantage of taking more current, so I don't mind them when available.

Just as an experiment, my next array will be based on either a Vero 10 4000k 90CRI or the Citizen 4000K 97CRI, with two Cree regular blue, a Rebel Cyan, Rebel Lime, and a Luxeon K16 royal blue, with 2-3 violets. A couple of these clusters should easily be good for a pretty good rig over a 12x24 footprint or even over maybe 18x36 depending on what is meant to be kept. Four over a standard 55 gallon would probably be a great budget rig for most anything other than highly demanding SPS unless kept up high.

The Luxeon K8 or K16 is a great choice for royal blue, but it's no longer being produced... Still worth grabbing a few, you can get the K16 (which can dissipate 45w!) For $5 each on FleaBay and Aliexpress, and cheaper if you buy 5 or 10 at once.

Something like that might be good if you want a small footprint, less emitters, but it steps into the territory of advanced skullduggery, and may not sound as Gucci to all the snobs.

lingwendil
09/11/2017, 09:07 AM
Just noticed the dimensions, and yeah, you should be fine.

jayball
09/11/2017, 09:50 AM
The only suggestion I would make in addition to the above is if you free up room with the COB whites I would throw additional 420 NM in rather than royal blue. The additional violet will increase your florescent response without making your tank look like Windex.

bblumberg
09/11/2017, 11:38 AM
I would strongly recommend that you consider BlueAcro COB LEDs. I have his 20K Blue Pro pucks on my 150g (5x2x2) and really like them quite a bit. MUCH easier than individual LEDs which I had in my other 2 builds. But to be fair, I also have 4x80W T5 supplements which really complete the look when they are on. At the moment, I have 3 BlueAcroCOBs and the 4x 80W T5s. I have another 3 BlueAcro chips and 4x 4500K 90CRI neutral LumiLEDs neutral white COBs ready to add when I have time. The goal would is to reduce the amount of time I run the T5s while spreading the LEDs out more evenly rather than having 3 pools of light.

Be careful with the warm white and red LEDs in your build - those may grow more algae than you would like to have....

lingwendil
09/11/2017, 12:16 PM
I would strongly recommend that you consider BlueAcro COB LEDs. I have his 20K Blue Pro pucks on my 150g (5x2x2) and really like them quite a bit. MUCH easier than individual LEDs which I had in my other 2 builds. But to be fair, I also have 4x80W T5 supplements which really complete the look when they are on. At the moment, I have 3 BlueAcroCOBs and the 4x 80W T5s. I have another 3 BlueAcro chips and 4x 4500K 90CRI neutral LumiLEDs neutral white COBs ready to add when I have time. The goal would is to reduce the amount of time I run the T5s while spreading the LEDs out more evenly rather than having 3 pools of light.


Be careful with the warm white and red LEDs in your build - those may grow more algae than you would like to have....

Agreed on the warm whites and reds, but it depends on water parameters too. I personally like a good neutral white over most warm whites, and I'm not a huge fan of discrete reds at all except in very specific circumstances...


And, I can't believe I forgot about BlueAcro! I run a pair of the HalfMega (with custom emitter choices using the new beta series of his Luxeon C boards) and I am extremely pleased with them. The only thing I may do differently next time is step up to the larger boards for more channels and color mix. Two of them is absolutely perfect on my standard All-Glass-Aquarium 20 long.

Keep in mind this color choice was due to my love of the 20K radium look-

Custom arrangement on the Luxeon C boards-

3x royal blue, 1x semiLEDs violet, and 1x mint, 1x blue, 1x royal blue, 1x 90CRI 5700k white. Both channels driven equally looks just like a 20k Radium :thumbsup:

Installed on a heatsink from rapidLED, the multichip in the middle is just a moonlight.

Hard to get accurate pics, but this Blenny has patterns and color I haven't even seen before. These pics don't do it justice. My montipora also turned from a full brown and green to a pink and green. Very pleased!

https://preview.ibb.co/gGFU1k/IMG_20170808_201119.jpg (https://ibb.co/b0u07Q)
https://preview.ibb.co/h9e07Q/IMG_20170808_201109.jpg (https://ibb.co/fTLU1k)
https://preview.ibb.co/kJXWE5/IMG_20170808_182723.jpg (https://ibb.co/nzr2Mk)
https://preview.ibb.co/cDC91k/IMG_20170806_012957.jpg (https://ibb.co/bBTSnQ)
https://preview.ibb.co/iWbC45/IMG_20170805_123204.jpg (https://ibb.co/kf3s45)
https://preview.ibb.co/mKoGgk/IMG_20170805_123119.jpg (https://ibb.co/kmDhMk)
https://preview.ibb.co/euNbgk/IMG_20170730_175827.jpg (https://ibb.co/gUgrE5)
https://preview.ibb.co/c0AjZ5/IMG_20170730_174943.jpg (https://ibb.co/jThbgk)
https://preview.ibb.co/dSeYSQ/IMG_20170730_174917.jpg (https://ibb.co/c2nyu5)

If the OP isn't stuck on the idea of a pendant, one of the 6x20 premium enclosures from RapidLED would be a good choice for his tank, with a pair of the BlueAcro 48w boards, or three of the 24w may work, but for full blown SPS the 48w boards may be a better choice, and give more channels of control.

http://www.rapidled.com/premium-enclosures/

https://blueacro.com/acrostar/

TimmyD16
09/11/2017, 06:02 PM
Not sold on much of anything at this point, and those 48W Pro Blue boards do look pretty slick....

I might just have to pivot to two of those... It looks like it will be a bit more expensive, but if the light will be more versatile and future proof then I'll probably be all for it... I really like those RapidLED enclosures, but anyone know of a controllable fan that fits in that area? Something I can control with the Storm LED controller?

lingwendil
09/11/2017, 10:10 PM
The storm can control the fan with some additional circuitry, but that is one of the shortcomings of the setup from rapidLED, is that it's nearly impossible to find a 4-wire (PWM ready) in the same style. The MakersLED style heatsink will take any standard 92mm PC fan, but doesn't look as nice (I have one on my freshwater) as the units from rapid.

The coralux fan controller will control any common 2, 3, or 4 wire fans, and will work with the fan on the rapid heatsink-

http://coralux.net/?wpsc-product=fan-power-pwm-board

I think a pair of the 48w AcroStar boards would be a great choice, and he even sells adjustable dual-drivers that will bolt down to the heatsink as well. Just add a few jacks, wire, and a PSU and its a great way to build up a killer sleek light.

perkint
09/12/2017, 06:05 AM
What are the numbers of the XP-G3 at 85C? Probably a more realistic comparison, but it should still be pretty close.

[...]

Just as an experiment, my next array will be based on either a Vero 10 4000k 90CRI or the Citizen 4000K 97CRI
Figures for the XP-G3 at 85C would be better for comparison but they don't provide them and haven't added it to the PCT do you can't get them :( That was what I was thinking about when I put "they are not explicit" :(

Could get the XT-E RB at 25C now I think about it as that is in the PCT. Might have a dig later :)

Any reason you don't use the Vero 10 97 CRI? I have a few of them and they are a very good base for lights (IMO)...

Alternatively as said, the blueacro stuff is very good and makes life much easier :D

Tim

lingwendil
09/12/2017, 07:49 AM
Which part number and CCT Vero?

I've had a hell of a time trying to actually find a 4000k or higher 97CRI Vero actually for sale outside of the datasheet. That's why I grabbed the Citizen COB.

The LumiLEDs "crispwhite" and "fresh fish" are two I'd like to check out too.

perkint
09/12/2017, 11:45 AM
Which part number and CCT Vero?

I've had a hell of a time trying to actually find a 4000k or higher 97CRI Vero actually for sale outside of the datasheet. That's why I grabbed the Citizen COB.

The LumiLEDs "crispwhite" and "fresh fish" are two I'd like to check out too.
3000K. I should probably mention the ones I have are probably gen1 and I've had them from when the Vero 10s were new (ish)! :lmao:
BXRC-30H1000-B-03

Funny you say they are harder to find - the reason I went for the Vero's was they were by far the easiest to find in high CRI! But then, that was three years ago!

Digi-Key have stocks of the current 3000K high CRI one: BXRC-30H1000-B-23. No higher temp ones in the same CRI which I think you've said you'd prefer (if I remember right)...

Tim

perkint
09/12/2017, 12:00 PM
Could get the XT-E RB at 25C now I think about it as that is in the PCT. Might have a dig later :)
So the top bin XT-E would put out about 650mW at 25C. Compared with the XP-G3 at 680mW.

Doesn't look much, but then take in to account the XP-G3 is also running on less power (again not massive - XT-E takes about 7% more power) and significantly improved thermal resistance (2C/W compared with 5C/W).

So more light, less power and more easily cooled, never mind can be driven much harder if you wish - and doesn't carry much of a premium :)

But then if you want the option of more light from fewer units (so less wiring) neither will compete with the Luxeons! :lmao:

Tim

lingwendil
09/12/2017, 02:17 PM
Hard to compete with the Luxeon offerings, but still pretty good!

perkint
09/12/2017, 03:00 PM
Tried to find the performance data for the Luxeons the other day, but as they don't seem to list it on their site, I failed :( Doesn't help that I didn't/don't know which is the best performer (in light output per watt terms)...

Tim

TimmyD16
09/12/2017, 11:24 PM
Any newer LED boards out there similar to the Luxeon K16? I like that setup but not too sure about buying randoms off of flea-bay...

lingwendil
09/12/2017, 11:51 PM
Sort of... Citizen makes one that is similar, but I can only find it at RapidLED (and their sister sites) that should prove pretty good-

http://www.rapidled.com/citizen-royal-blue-cob-clu048-1212cf-b455/

At four times the price (nearly) I haven't been in a hurry to grab any, especially considering that outside of rapid/menari or COBkits I can't find any sources in the US that stock them. If the quality is like the other chips from Citizen they should be a great choice though.

oreo57
09/13/2017, 11:16 AM
www.lumileds.com/uploads/600/DS162-pdf


Listed replacement series for k16 but don't see any Royal Blue..

perkint
09/13/2017, 11:44 AM
Royal blue (and colours) is just not where the main development interest is at the mo :(

Tim

lingwendil
09/13/2017, 02:10 PM
Unfortunately. I've got a couple K16 on the way to play with. The Citizen Royal blue is supposed to be a current production part, but it's hard to find for some reason outside of the sources listed earlier. I might shoot them a line asking for stocking distributors.

perkint
09/13/2017, 04:49 PM
I was surprised when Cree did the XP-G3 royal blue, but you can tell it was only because they could, not that they wanted to (poor level of info in the datasheet and not on the PCT)...

Tim

TimmyD16
09/13/2017, 09:46 PM
For sure, it seems like colors are more of an after-thought currently...

lingwendil
09/13/2017, 11:26 PM
Yup. The last couple years it seems that high CRI or specialty whites (geared towards specific products and displays) have been the big push, and finding ways to increase efficiency and thermal performance. Remote phosphor stuff is slowly scooting along as well.

lingwendil
09/14/2017, 12:40 PM
Tried to find the performance data for the Luxeons the other day, but as they don't seem to list it on their site, I failed :( Doesn't help that I didn't/don't know which is the best performer (in light output per watt terms)...

Tim

Luxeon Rebel color line Datasheet-

https://www.lumileds.com/uploads/265/DS68-pdf

Quote from StevesLEDs-

- Radiometric Output - 1,300mw @ 700ma and 1,755mw @ 1000ma! (Datasheet, Figure 12)




Some sort-of-on-topic opinions, since we are on the topic of cluster-based builds still...

Personally, I love the Luxeon Royal blues, and no longer use Cree for royal blue at all, due to the rather nontrivial difference in efficiency/output. I like the Colors that cree do (the regular blue 475nm from them is more "blue" and less cyan looking than the usual available blue bins from places like steves) but with some work you can get similar offerings as far as desired color bins if you ask around. Steves will do an alternative blue bin that specs around 475-480nm (bin 4) versus the listed 470-480nm (H4E?), but it doesn't help much, so for regular blues I like Cree, but I like the Luxeon Cyans a little better at the usual 495nm-500nm, versus the Cree cyan ("turquoise")at 495 having a sharper peak and less spread... Cyan and Blue will help level out the pink/purple tone that LED setups get when based on royal blue and neutral/warm white (or cool white with added red) alone. They also help with coloration, fluorescence, and photosynthesis. If you look at the graphs for most white LEDs you will see a big dip right in the area that blue/cyan cover, so It's a good idea to fill it in.

Deep red can be useful for some, and many will buy into the (IMHO) myth that they promote algae growth (I haven't experienced it, but many claim they do) but I believe they aren't necessary for growth of corals unless your base white is lacking in this area to begin with, IE when your whites are 6500K or any other Cool White nonsense from some random seller (like the 10,000-20,000k whites sold as bridgelux/epistar or in the cheap chinese multichips on fleabay) or generic stuff. Use a good neutral white (or certain warm whites) with high CRI and you will usually be covered pretty well in this area, and get much better color to go with it. I would however add that reds can be useful for tuning color, and any well-rounded fixture that can fit another channel for controlling them should at least entertain the idea of adding them at least in very small numbers. On larger fixtures they blend easier, on smaller fixtures they are harder to mix well.

Far red I put in the same category as deep red. While useful, pick a good base white and the same reasoning applies. Could easily add it to the same channel as deep red and use it for tuning.

Lime is an awesome addition to most any fixture, especially blue heavy ones. in conjunction with regular blue and cyan, it will completely counteract that pink/purple undertone some setups get from a base of neutral/warm white with a bunch of royal blues. It is also a great way to increase visual brightness of the fixture without affecting the perceived color temperature/tone of the light, while also having a minimal impact on PAR. Particularly useful on tanks that need a crisp white look when already blue heavy.

And as earlier, I think a high CRI neutral or warm white (my preference is to a 4000k neutral) is what your setup should be based on. Cree an LumiLEDs both offer decent high CRI options, with LumiLEDs leading Cree in this regard, but there are better options at better price points in the stuff from Citizen, Bridgelux, and Luminus Devices for our uses.



All that having been said, next fixture I'm putting together (for a budget "display" frag setup dual PAR cannon!) will be (tentatively)

Two clusters each of-

Citizen 4000k 97CRI CLU028 (running at 300mA, for about 10w) (I may do a 90CRI 4000k Vero on the other side, just for experimenting, or possibly a 3000k white)
Luxeon K16 Royal blue array (running at 500mA-1000mA depending on how it all does)
Luxeon Rebel Lime
Luxeon Rebel Cyan
Cree Blue x2 (maybe 3)
SemiLEDs Violet U70 x2
SemiLEDs Violet U60 (may replace all SemiLEDs violets with a single Luxeon "UV" 420-430nm, or a single 3-up from StevesLEDs)

Should work great on a 20 Long or similarly shaped tank! Probably even enough for LPS and some less demanding to moderate SPS in something like a 30 Breeder or 40 Breeder if I crank those K16s up to 1 amp!

perkint
09/14/2017, 02:15 PM
Luxeon Rebel color line Datasheet-

https://www.lumileds.com/uploads/265/DS68-pdf

Quote from StevesLEDs-

- Radiometric Output - 1,300mw @ 700ma and 1,755mw @ 1000ma! (Datasheet, Figure 12)

Thanks for that :)

The datasheet suggests the highest output royal blue is 1100mW at 700mA (slightly less than an XT-E (1178mW) although the Cree chip would be slightly higher fV (3.2V vs about 2.95V) so slightly more power). Wish Cree would put the XP-G3 into the PCT!

Tim

lingwendil
09/14/2017, 03:11 PM
Looking from the graphs the Luxeon Royal Blue sits about 1350mW output or so at 1A (assuming proper/adequate cooling) with a 3.00V drop, and I like them around 700-1000mA assuming your heatsink can take it. The lower voltage drop is worth it for a bit better efficiency.

Also, In my experience the Luxeon can take higher temperatures before output suffers, but they are less tolerant of overdriving them the way the Crees are, which is a non issue usually if you design your rig right.

TimmyD16
09/15/2017, 12:07 AM
Some sort-of-on-topic opinions, since we are on the topic of cluster-based builds still...

Some AMAZING information lingwendil! Thank you for offering you knowledge and experience!

perkint
09/15/2017, 05:42 AM
Also, In my experience the Luxeon can take higher temperatures before output suffers, but they are less tolerant of overdriving them the way the Crees are, which is a non issue usually if you design your rig right.
I did notice the drop off from temp was quite flat. The thermal efficiency of them is nowhere near as good as the Crees but then it doesn't need to be when it has less effect!

As you say, overdriving (by accident) shouldn't really happen :)

Tim

lingwendil
09/15/2017, 08:46 AM
Some AMAZING information lingwendil! Thank you for offering you knowledge and experience!

No problem. I've been building my own rigs since before there were any commercial offerings, and have worked with testing and repairing units for years. I keep getting told to write up a guide, but the industry is always changing so I just lay down some info now and then, and I'm always learning new things too. I may be opinionated, but I think I have a good knowledge base to form my reasoning, and have had a ton of experience finding what does and doesn't work. Recently I took up the freshwater side of lighting, and its just as fun.

Oh, adding to the above... run violets. Often erroneously referred to as UV (even the manufacturers do it, but whatever) you want 400-430nm on these, with the common and most useful being in the 415-420nm range. The most common and probably easiest to source is the popular "hyper violet" from LED g r o u p b u y, or the ones from Steve's LEDs. The 415-420nm SemiLEDs U70 bin is the most common, and works great in 95% of builds, although you see 400-410nm U50 bins, they have less output. Run one per each white is a good starting point for larger arrays, especially considering that you run less white than other colors. Also, some people really load up the violets, and while it works, I personally wouldn't get to crazy as it can really blast your tank with PAR, so for clams and SPS I would, but not for a moderately lit setup. Like my example for my next build posted earlier, I think 2-3 per array would be plenty, but if doing SPS dominant I would probably go 4-5. I've never noticed a huge difference in running a whole pile of them, but have noticed a difference when adding them to an existing array in low numbers.

perkint
09/15/2017, 02:47 PM
Good advice :)

Tim

lingwendil
09/29/2017, 12:23 PM
Slightly excited so I'm reviving this to show some testing-

Citizen CLU028 97CRI 4000k Neutral White (11.4 watts at 38volts, 300mA)

Luxeon Lime

Luxeon K16 Royal Blue (easy to find all over FleaBay, AliExpress, and similar sites, these are the real deal, just surplus) (for Toshiba remote phosphor fixture) these can do 45 watts of dissipation, for 23,000+mw of radiance!

Lashed up really quick on a RapidLED Premium Heatsink, white/lime driven in series at 300mA, royal blue at 700mA.

https://preview.ibb.co/hmRLab/IMG_20170927_191007.jpg (https://ibb.co/bV5rgG)
https://preview.ibb.co/h2ocMG/IMG_20170927_190948.jpg (https://ibb.co/kV8cMG)

These suckers are very, very powerful, and the colors are fantastic. It has a very subtle hint of that pink/magenta look that will be easy to counteract with the other colors I will be adding to the array. The overall look is pretty close to a 12,000k halide, and much less pink than the picture shows-

https://preview.ibb.co/kvxU1G/IMG_20170927_190741.jpg (https://ibb.co/mSY2MG)

Pardon my potato quality picture, it ended up very dark for some reason, and the color isn't true at all...


The plan is so far to add 2x violet, 4x cool/regular blue, 1 or 2x cyan, and build two total clusters, and it will end up over a 40breeder or similar size setup for a "display" frag setup. Even as a standalone setup it looks phenomenally better than the basic cool white/royal blue combo, and would do very well as an array on its own for a warmer desired look. This also blows away the "dream chip" types of multichips in cost and efficiency, as well as having nicer color, even unsupplemented.

The best part? Those K16 arrays are only $5 each shipped, and the Citizen whites are less than $8, although you could do similar quality with less CRI if you went with a Bridgelux Vero for $3.75 each, and end up with a very economical base set to build on with your other colors.

Fredfish
09/29/2017, 07:25 PM
Slightly excited so I'm reviving this to show some testing-

Citizen CLU028 97CRI 4000k Neutral White (11.4 watts at 38volts, 300mA)

Luxeon Lime

Luxeon K16 Royal Blue...


...The plan is so far to add 2x violet, 4x cool/regular blue, 1 or 2x cyan, and build two total clusters, and it will end up over a 40breeder or similar size setup for a "display" frag setup. Even as a standalone setup it looks phenomenally better than the basic cool white/royal blue combo, and would do very well as an array on its own for a warmer desired look. This also blows away the "dream chip" types of multichips in cost and efficiency, as well as having nicer color, even unsupplemented.

The best part? Those K16 arrays are only $5 each shipped, and the Citizen whites are less than $8, although you could do similar quality with less CRI if you went with a Bridgelux Vero for $3.75 each, and end up with a very economical base set to build on with your other colors.
How is the blending on this smorgasbord when its all together?

I always thought this would make a super inexpensive build for really big tanks where you want to push out lots of light per LED grouping.

lingwendil
09/29/2017, 09:56 PM
How is the blending on this smorgasbord when its all together?

I always thought this would make a super inexpensive build for really big tanks where you want to push out lots of light per LED grouping.

Well, 6" above the waterline, and over my 12" tall 20 long it blends well. Once the other colors are added I can comment further, but I may end up using a diffusion panel of some sort so I don't have to hang the light so high.

lingwendil
10/22/2017, 09:34 PM
Another bump here with a tidbit/teaser of the build mentioned earlier-

https://preview.ibb.co/cmxXBR/IMG_20171022_192434.jpg (https://ibb.co/gPjCBR)
image uploader (https://imgbb.com/)


Just need to wire up the drivers and associated bits. Getting there slowly! Can't wait to test it out!

TimmyD16
10/22/2017, 10:21 PM
That's looks like a legit light! what are the final diode selections?

lingwendil
10/22/2017, 10:43 PM
Heatsink- RapidLED 20" premium enclosure (https://www.rapidled.com/6-x-20-premium-heat-sink-and-enclosure/?utm_medium=googleshopping&utm_source=bc&gclid=Cj0KCQjwg7HPBRDUARIsAMeR_0gb-7PdwsQVwA3dVa4QNwbdPxHcg87bZWjq71-pFjMC1wlZXobTQpYaAs4uEALw_wcB)

Two clusters of the following emitters each-

1x Citizen CLU028 4000k, 97 CRI neutral white
1x Luxeon K16 royal blue
4x Luxeon Rebel ES true cool blue (470-480nm)
2x Luxeon Rebel ES cyan (one each from rapidLED, one from Steve's, not that it makes much difference)
2x SemiLEDs Hyper violet 3.0 (U70 bin, 415-425nm)
1x Luxeon Rebel lime

Total LED cost is just under $100 or so for both clusters, not factoring in shipping.

The plan so far is to drive most everything at 700mA, and the Citizens at 300mA.

The funny thing is, that I don't really have a tank in mind for it yet! I've got a 20 Long reef that I've been toying with upgrading to a 40 breeder, and I might just do it now. I'm thinking one of these rigs would be perfect over a 40 breeder or maybe even something bigger?

Maybe a 57? Those weird things with the 36x18 footprint? No idea. Either way I'll dim it down and run it on the 20 long and see how it does.

Zephrant
10/23/2017, 10:54 PM
What do you expected the consumed wattage to be?

lingwendil
10/24/2017, 11:06 AM
Ignoring the drivers, control, fan, etc, the LEDs themselves on both channels will pull-

Royal blue- 61.6w (700mA, 44v, x2 strings)
White- 22.8w (300mA, 38v, x2 strings)
Blue- 18.3w (700mA, 13.08v, x2 strings)
Cyan- 8.1w (700mA, 11.6v)
Violet- 5.2w (700mA, 14.8v)
Lime- 3.78w (700mA, 5.4v)

All combined is 108w total, and 84.4w will be on the white/royal base colors. White/royal will be on a 48V PSU with LDD-H drivers, everything else will be on a 19V PSU and run off of LDD-L drivers. This is of course assuming everything is running full blast, and it's not likely that I would run everything that high other than a few channels for tuning color. Each color is split out into its own channel, for six channels of adjustment. Should be pretty rad :thumbsup:

Might get a little tight for wiring, I really could use a PCB that had 8 drivers on it that are functionally compatible with the LDD series, but the only source I know (O2surplus) has gone dark, so I'm trying to shoehorn everything in the fixture as is.

I'll try to tally up a parts list with prices soon. It's surprisingly cheap so far.

Should I start a new thread? This kind of snowballed into it's own project!

TimmyD16
10/24/2017, 05:31 PM
That's up to you man! I'll gladly tag along if you do!

kapelan
10/24/2017, 07:40 PM
5 pennies from designing a LED fixture:
1. make it is in standard way:
all drivers should be the same, like all of them 1000mA or all of them 700mA. It will save tons of time when one channel burn out.
2. About spectrum: somewhere here it was a nice article, in a short: usually 80% royal blue, cyan +red + white = 20%.
I'm actually constantly changing the spectrum because all day blue water is boring - we are enjoying the color of corals, right? So let's change the light to make it nice.
3. From datasheet they usually note the maximum current. So if it says 700mA - that means 700mA maximum if temperature of heatsink less then 60%. In other words if I have driver for 700mA I will chose LED for 1000mA just to have some buffer.
4. Heatsink should be big enough to release the heat from LED. So the heatsink should stay warm. Trying to minimize the size will require active air movement, that means noisy cooler.
For each cooler they usually note a nose in dB. Would say > 20dB is unacceptable. Also the size of cooler - the bigger the size the more air flow and less nose.
5. They recommend 5W per gallon. to reduce the light by dimming it is a 5 minute job, but to add some power is a big trouble. So it is better to have a buffer -the bigger the better. At least to make picture - nobody likes blue picture, so this 20% of red+cyan+white should be enough to make a nice daylight picture.

lingwendil
10/25/2017, 02:43 PM
5 pennies from designing a LED fixture:
1. make it is in standard way:
all drivers should be the same, like all of them 1000mA or all of them 700mA. It will save tons of time when one channel burn out.


Sort of agree. Especially if everything is to be adjustable, it is a lot easier if they are all the same. Socketed drivers (like the LDD series) are also a godsend for troubleshooting purposes. Also makes it easy to simply swap to a lower current driver if you wanted to for better dimming resolution at lower drive currents.

2. About spectrum: somewhere here it was a nice article, in a short: usually 80% royal blue, cyan +red + white = 20%.
I'm actually constantly changing the spectrum because all day blue water is boring - we are enjoying the color of corals, right? So let's change the light to make it nice.


Sort of agree. Red can be overpowering even in small amounts with individual emitters. That's one of the driving reasons behind choosing a high CRI base white. Looking at a warmer white in the 3000-4500k range that is high CRI will naturally have better color rendition than a cooler white usually will. If we already have adequate red spectrum in our white, we don't have to "add it back" by using separate reds for most applications.

Cyan is a good thing, and in conjunction with lime and regular blue helps counteract the pinkish color many of these setups get when using so much royal blue and warmer whites or red supplementation. Cyan is at the edge of a good photosynthetic sweet spot, as well as regular blue, so definitely worth having. Added benefit is the light will appear "brighter" to the eye.

Regular blue is useful for photosynthesis, and for bringing out colors that royal blue can't. Definitely worth having along for the ride. Too much can look like Windex though. Standard cool and neutral whites are usually lacking in both cyan and regular blue (but abundant in royal blue due to the base LED "showing through") so adding them is useful.


3. From datasheet they usually note the maximum current. So if it says 700mA - that means 700mA maximum if temperature of heatsink less then 60%. In other words if I have driver for 700mA I will chose LED for 1000mA just to have some buffer.

Definitely. You encounter some diminishing returns once you push them too hard anyway. Going with 70% of the max current is usually a good starting point. For Luxeon series LEDs in particular 700mA is a great point for longevity and efficiency. Going from 700mA to 1A isn't as useful for the near 50% increase in current you only get like ~20% increase in output at much more heat.

4. Heatsink should be big enough to release the heat from LED. So the heatsink should stay warm. Trying to minimize the size will require active air movement, that means noisy cooler.
For each cooler they usually note a nose in dB. Would say > 20dB is unacceptable. Also the size of cooler - the bigger the size the more air flow and less nose.

Definitely. A big fat heatsink and a set of quality 120mm PC fans is a good way to go.

5. They recommend 5W per gallon. to reduce the light by dimming it is a 5 minute job, but to add some power is a big trouble. So it is better to have a buffer -the bigger the better. At least to make picture - nobody likes blue picture, so this 20% of red+cyan+white should be enough to make a nice daylight picture.


Watts per gallon is largely irrelevant when it comes to LED... PAR and coverage are more important. With so many different types of LED on the market the differences in efficiency can be huge.

Definitely agree on oversizing the capabilities of the fixture. You can always dim it down, or swap drivers out as needed. :thumbsup:

MrMan
10/26/2017, 04:46 PM
Might get a little tight for wiring, I really could use a PCB that had 8 drivers on it that are functionally compatible with the LDD series, but the only source I know (O2surplus) has gone dark, so I'm trying to shoehorn everything in the fixture as is.


I actually designed a 6-channel PCB designed to fit in the RapidLED heatsink a while ago but didn't have the funds to build my DIY light so it got shelved. My thought was to have everything inside the enclosure so only 48V input was needed. PCB has a built-in DCDC converter to step down to 6-12V (so you can adjust the max fan speed), 6 channels using the LM3414 (each with pot to adjust current) and Wemos/PCA9685 for PWM dimming. Everything is surface mount so you can mount the board directly to the heatsink to cool the drivers.

https://i.imgur.com/yyhtDM5.png

If you're interested i could swap the Wemos out for 2 extra channels, although you'd need an extra connector then for PWM.

lingwendil
10/26/2017, 06:55 PM
I actually designed a 6-channel PCB designed to fit in the RapidLED heatsink a while ago but didn't have the funds to build my DIY light so it got shelved. My thought was to have everything inside the enclosure so only 48V input was needed. PCB has a built-in DCDC converter to step down to 6-12V (so you can adjust the max fan speed), 6 channels using the LM3414 (each with pot to adjust current) and Wemos/PCA9685 for PWM dimming. Everything is surface mount so you can mount the board directly to the heatsink to cool the drivers.

https://i.imgur.com/yyhtDM5.png

If you're interested i could swap the Wemos out for 2 extra channels, although you'd need an extra connector then for PWM.

That is rad!

I wouldn't mind one of those as is! I can always piggyback another board or two off of the PWM pins of the Wemos, since I need several identical channels anyway. One of those boards as is, and another with a couple additional drivers instead would be extremely handy. I need 8 drivers total, but only six channels of control. One of those boards with a blueacro two-channel driver board piggybacking along work be perfect.

Do you have any finished boards yet, or just the files? I'm definitely interested either way.

TimmyD16
10/26/2017, 10:26 PM
Those boards do look great, is the fan DC controllable at all? I'd love to see a driver board that had something like a "if I am drawing so much current then switch on my fan output"... Would like to not have an extra board but still have the fan controllable in the event you have to use a two wire fan...

MrMan
10/27/2017, 09:54 AM
That is rad!

I wouldn't mind one of those as is! I can always piggyback another board or two off of the PWM pins of the Wemos, since I need several identical channels anyway. One of those boards as is, and another with a couple additional drivers instead would be extremely handy. I need 8 drivers total, but only six channels of control. One of those boards with a blueacro two-channel driver board piggybacking along work be perfect.

Do you have any finished boards yet, or just the files? I'm definitely interested either way.

Just the files at this point, never had them made since after pricing out everything it was too much. The parts cost ~$50 and cheapest cost for PCBs is $24 although not sure if that's with shipping. How are you soldering skills? Or would you prefer to buy a populated one?

I did some code based on Blynk although haven't had a chance to really test it yet. I think the board would also be compatible with the SSLAC16 software O2 mentioned before. Also considered replacing the Wemos with a Bluefish mini which would cost more but then i wouldn't have to worry about the software side of things.

Those boards do look great, is the fan DC controllable at all? I'd love to see a driver board that had something like a "if I am drawing so much current then switch on my fan output"... Would like to not have an extra board but still have the fan controllable in the event you have to use a two wire fan...

My plan was to have two connectors for DS18B20s to monitor heatsink/LED temperatures and use that to control when the fan turns ON/OFF. Didn't plan on PWM for the fan since the fan for those premium heatsinks isn't PWM enabled.

The board is 50mm wide and designed to sit at the edge of the heatsink so the barrel plug sticks out, but it could also sit in the middle if the LEDs are right up to the edge of the heatsink.

lingwendil
10/27/2017, 10:09 AM
I can solder, and can do surface mount components, as long as they don't require reflow type work. Depending on difficulty/cost I would definitely be interested on one or two.

Is that 24$ for a single PCB, or a set?

MrMan
10/27/2017, 10:27 AM
I can solder, and can do surface mount components, as long as they don't require reflow type work. Depending on difficulty/cost I would definitely be interested on one or two.

Is that 24$ for a single PCB, or a set?

The LM3414 have thermal pads which should be re-flowed, might be possible with a hot air gun. See LM3414HVMRX/NOPBCT-ND on digi-key. Would you want the wemos or Bluefish socket?

MrMan
10/27/2017, 10:40 AM
The $24 was for 10 pcs, looks like the minimum order is actually 5 pcs for $19 though so not as bad.

lingwendil
10/27/2017, 09:04 PM
Wemos socket for sure.

19$ for five ain't bad at all! Might be worth ordering ten and splitting them though. I could find a use for that many for sure.

I've got a few wemos on hand to fool with as it is.

What pcb house?

Heat gun huh? I've never actually tried it that way.

MrMan
10/31/2017, 10:29 AM
Wemos socket for sure.

19$ for five ain't bad at all! Might be worth ordering ten and splitting them though. I could find a use for that many for sure.

I've got a few wemos on hand to fool with as it is.

What pcb house?

Heat gun huh? I've never actually tried it that way.

Ok I'll go with the Wemos socket, worst case the SSLAC16 code should work if my Blynk code doesn't. Just finishing a couple things before I order them, was busy over the weekend so didn't get a chance.

lingwendil
11/01/2017, 07:18 AM
Is there a provision to bring a couple of the existing channels PWM off board to "double up" drivers for multiple strings per channel? Is there a way to bring a couple additional channels of PWM out to external drivers for applications that need more than six channels?

Not asking for changes, just curious.

MrMan
11/01/2017, 11:00 AM
Is there a provision to bring a couple of the existing channels PWM off board to "double up" drivers for multiple strings per channel? Is there a way to bring a couple additional channels of PWM out to external drivers for applications that need more than six channels?

Not asking for changes, just curious.

I wanted to add a connector to bring out more of the PWM signals (we have 16 why not make them available) but I ran out of space to fit anything. I figured since it was designed to be an all-in-one solution (dimming, fan control and 6 channels) i figured it was OK to cut it.

What I could do is just add solder pads in between the outputs for the PWM signals of the main 6 channels. This would let you add additional drivers using the same PWM (ie if you wanted 6 COBs to run off channel 1).

lingwendil
11/01/2017, 12:12 PM
That's perfect.

Six channels of control is plenty for 99% of the uses I would have in mind anyway. Simply running some wire off board to another set of drivers will work just fine.

Anybody want to split a pack of ten PCBs?

MrMan
11/02/2017, 10:47 AM
That's perfect.

Six channels of control is plenty for 99% of the uses I would have in mind anyway. Simply running some wire off board to another set of drivers will work just fine.

Anybody want to split a pack of ten PCBs?

Hey I have a quick question for you, how wide are the T-Slots? I got a few drawings from RapidLED but they didn't include that dimension so just want to make sure the holes I make are the correct size.

Also, I was able to fit a small pitch header on the PCB to bring out 8 PWM signals (first 6 used on PCB plus 2 extra).

oreo57
11/02/2017, 11:49 AM
suggest the HV version of the driver chip..

lingwendil
11/02/2017, 02:44 PM
Hey I have a quick question for you, how wide are the T-Slots? I got a few drawings from RapidLED but they didn't include that dimension so just want to make sure the holes I make are the correct size.

I'll try to get some dimensions for you once I'm home from work.

Also, I was able to fit a small pitch header on the PCB to bring out 8 PWM signals (first 6 used on PCB plus 2 extra).

:thumbsup: Cool. Easier to have it if it's needed later, and being able to plug in a harness to feed offboard components is a nice thing for sure!


suggest the HV version of the driver chip..

They are pin-compatible, right?

oreo57
11/02/2017, 03:44 PM
Should be.. ;)
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi14IuJ7qDXAhVR0GMKHRU0DcsQFggvMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ti.com%2Flit%2Fds%2Fsymlink%2Flm3414hv.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2L2qww9l1hiW6xxM5bpk6a

MrMan
11/03/2017, 12:22 PM
I'll try to get some dimensions for you once I'm home from work.

:thumbsup: Cool. Easier to have it if it's needed later, and being able to plug in a harness to feed offboard components is a nice thing for sure!

They are pin-compatible, right?

They are pin compatible, plan on using the high voltage version of the LED driver and DC-DC driver so the input range is 20-60V with output current range of 350-1000mA.

From what I found the T-slots are designed for 4-40 screws so I went with what I found for them.

lingwendil
11/03/2017, 01:44 PM
Sorry, didn't get a chance to dig it out last night or pull the working one to check. Just finished moving and the house is in chaos.


I really wish rapid would post up some real dimensional drawing of these sorts of products they carry, would be much nicer for planning things out.


When I was in there in person a couple weeks ago (benefits of living in the SF Bay Area :thumbsup:) I brought up the issue with fitting drivers into these, and they sort of shrugged their shoulders and said best bet is to run the drivers in a separate enclosure, since most of their solutions include LDD-LS drivers on the main array PCB these days (hey Theatrus, how about throwing a pair of drivers on your acrostar pucks? :wavehand: definitely a market...) and may eventually offer something similar for DIY, but have no current plans to.

MrMan
11/08/2017, 04:53 PM
Sorry, didn't get a chance to dig it out last night or pull the working one to check. Just finished moving and the house is in chaos.


I really wish rapid would post up some real dimensional drawing of these sorts of products they carry, would be much nicer for planning things out.


When I was in there in person a couple weeks ago (benefits of living in the SF Bay Area :thumbsup:) I brought up the issue with fitting drivers into these, and they sort of shrugged their shoulders and said best bet is to run the drivers in a separate enclosure, since most of their solutions include LDD-LS drivers on the main array PCB these days (hey Theatrus, how about throwing a pair of drivers on your acrostar pucks? :wavehand: definitely a market...) and may eventually offer something similar for DIY, but have no current plans to.

Sure would be nice to live within driving distance instead of paying 30+ for shipping anything cuz you're in Canada ;) Had a fever/cold the last few days so didn't finish the PCB till today. After putting everything into the site the cost was $50 with shipping and an unknown import duty. Since you're the only one planning on building one at this point wanted to make sure you're OK with the few extra bucks per PCB before ordering and I can't PM you yet.

saf1
11/09/2017, 05:21 PM
Not sold on much of anything at this point, and those 48W Pro Blue boards do look pretty slick....

I might just have to pivot to two of those... It looks like it will be a bit more expensive, but if the light will be more versatile and future proof then I'll probably be all for it... I really like those RapidLED enclosures, but anyone know of a controllable fan that fits in that area? Something I can control with the Storm LED controller?

Older thread I know but are you talking about the AcroStar Mega4Z 20k Pro Blue (48W) from Blue Acro? If so, I am wiring up four of them this weekend to test over a 240 gallon tank. I'll more than likely order another pair if the penetration is good. I have a 30" tall tank.

TimmyD16
11/11/2017, 03:52 PM
Older thread I know but are you talking about the AcroStar Mega4Z 20k Pro Blue (48W) from Blue Acro? If so, I am wiring up four of them this weekend to test over a 240 gallon tank. I'll more than likely order another pair if the penetration is good. I have a 30" tall tank.

That is what I've been primarily looking at, it is the only pre-built LED module board that has the features that I am looking for, primarily the use of warm/nuetral white, and lime light spectrums.

Though I have recently been contemplating with the idea of a panel type of arrangement to better increase the spread of light for SPS...

Let us know how it all goes! they seem like great lights.

lingwendil
11/11/2017, 06:53 PM
^ same. I love the two on my 20 long, and would love to see a nice build with the big boys. When I pull the fixture soon to put on the big build, they are coming out and going into a pair of Aavid Thermaloy heatsinks, with a pair of synjet coolers for pendant use...

bblumberg
11/12/2017, 09:53 AM
Older thread I know but are you talking about the AcroStar Mega4Z 20k Pro Blue (48W) from Blue Acro? If so, I am wiring up four of them this weekend to test over a 240 gallon tank. I'll more than likely order another pair if the penetration is good. I have a 30" tall tank.

You will like those. I am running 3 on my 150g with 4 x 80W T5 supplements. I have 3 more and 4 LumiLEDs high CRI neutral whites to add when I can find the time to take the canopy off and fiddle with it.

If you want good penetration to 30", it might be necessary to leave the diffusers off.

saf1
11/12/2017, 10:23 AM
You will like those. I am running 3 on my 150g with 4 x 80W T5 supplements. I have 3 more and 4 LumiLEDs high CRI neutral whites to add when I can find the time to take the canopy off and fiddle with it.

If you want good penetration to 30", it might be necessary to leave the diffusers off.

Thanks for the tip - will compare on/off and see. I'll have the 4 with a pair of the Borealis Luxeon Z from RapidLED mixed in. Like I noted I'll probably order another pair of the Acrostar's just to be safe. I can always tone down intensity via controller anyway and they are not that expensive :)

I'll check the diffuser - ty.

saf1
12/14/2017, 06:04 PM
I got two of the four powered up last night with little to no issues and set them over the tank. Not proper height yet since I won't be able to work on the canopy until next week. These are running at 100% since I do not have them connected to my controller. I'm really pleased with the color and spread. I am not sure if four will be enough over the tank though. It is 30" tall x 30" deep x 54" wide. Will be interesting to see how they go when all four are running with water and rock. I'll be using dry rock and starting the cycle in January.

Only issue that I have is cooling the LED driver he builds. Great little piece but boy did it get super hot quick. No idea how I can mount and cool this. I just had the lights on for maybe 3 or 4 minutes then noticed the heat on them and next a flicker to warn me it was over heating (nice feature). I'll try and get some better photos. During the cycle if it looks like I need more than I'll order another pair, driver, power supply which would let me also add another pair if necessary. I'm thinking six will be more than enough.

oreo57
12/14/2017, 08:00 PM
Only issue that I have is cooling the LED driver he builds.

Do you have large voltage mis-match between input and output??
I didn't think he used linear drivers but if he did.. the greater the voltage differential the greater the heating..

example of worst case.. 48V power supply running 1 3V LED..

saf1
12/14/2017, 09:42 PM
Do you have large voltage mis-match between input and output??
I didn't think he used linear drivers but if he did.. the greater the voltage differential the greater the heating..

example of worst case.. 48V power supply running 1 3V LED..

I don't think believe so. I only had two installed at the moment but will have a total of four. The MeanWell would have put out the same power regardless or do you think that is it? I double checked the wires and it matched with the diagram we created. The only possible issue is that the driver isn't directly on the heat sink. It was on a double sided sticky type pad so maybe poor absorption / dissipation? I also didn't have it bolted firmly down. So maybe I just need to mount it better. It can't sit directly on the metal I don't believe.

Edit: Thank you btw.

oreo57
12/14/2017, 10:16 PM
I don't think believe so. I only had two installed at the moment but will have a total of four. The MeanWell would have put out the same power regardless or do you think that is it? I double checked the wires and it matched with the diagram we created. The only possible issue is that the driver isn't directly on the heat sink. It was on a double sided sticky type pad so maybe poor absorption / dissipation? I also didn't have it bolted firmly down. So maybe I just need to mount it better. It can't sit directly on the metal I don't believe.

Edit: Thank you btw.

Yea, pretty sure they are the TI ones..LM3414
and switching buck regulators so shouldn't heat "much"...at least to my understanding.
https://theatr.us/images/blueacro/acroiq/micro/hand.jpg
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2477205&page=19
The driver regulates current, so it will drive 700/1000ma through the LED by adjusting voltage as needed.

The driver doesn't "burn" 9V at 1A (9W), like a linear regulator would. At these ratios it's around 92% efficient, so it's 0.7W lost in the driver (split between the inductor, sense resistor, and actual IC)

Does say "mount to heatsink" though............. ;)


I have a couple of the O2 5 up drivers based on the same topology and just thermal pasted them to a circular heat sink..
Don't recall any heat issues but to be honest didn't really check.. They have been running for months now w/ no problems..

you may want to drop him (theatrus) a note.. doesn't seem right..but ???

kampo
12/15/2017, 12:43 AM
those drivers are so tiny I love em. been having a hard time getting ahold
of theatrus on a few question on my build i'm leaning toward using his drivers. but its unclear exactly what the upper and lower limits of that driver are.

any idea what the lowest Vout would be? it lists 12-48 but unclear if that's 12-48 in or out. also curious if its like a meanwell LDD if if I fed it say 50V from a 48v psu with the adjustment turned up would that be fine with a 47v led load.

reason i'm curious is my setup i'm planning for my freshwater light is a 36V cob then adding 2xDeep Red and 1xRoyal Blue and 1xhyper violetto that channel, this comes out to about 47ish volts at 1amp if i'm reading data sheets right

then on the salt version if I break out the channels i'll have loads as low as 6-7volts

oreo57
12/15/2017, 07:49 AM
those drivers are so tiny I love em. been having a hard time getting ahold
of theatrus on a few question on my build i'm leaning toward using his drivers. but its unclear exactly what the upper and lower limits of that driver are.

any idea what the lowest Vout would be? it lists 12-48 but unclear if that's 12-48 in or out. also curious if its like a meanwell LDD if if I fed it say 50V from a 48v psu with the adjustment turned up would that be fine with a 47v led load.

reason i'm curious is my setup i'm planning for my freshwater light is a 36V cob then adding 2xDeep Red and 1xRoyal Blue and 1xhyper violetto that channel, this comes out to about 47ish volts at 1amp if i'm reading data sheets right

then on the salt version if I break out the channels i'll have loads as low as 6-7volts

Can only go on manuf recommendations:
12-48V supply voltage
VIn - 3V maximum output voltage (12V in, 9V out) over the full input range


Tweaking ps to 50 is out of range..

Output is 9-45V.......
6-7V out of range..

suggest "sticking w/ the manuf plan"........... ;)

Never known anyone to series large voltage COBs w/ small..instinct tells me it's problematic..

saf1
12/15/2017, 07:53 AM
Yea, pretty sure they are the TI ones..LM3414
and switching buck regulators so shouldn't heat "much"...at least to my understanding.

Does say "mount to heatsink" though............. ;)

I have a couple of the O2 5 up drivers based on the same topology and just thermal pasted them to a circular heat sink..
Don't recall any heat issues but to be honest didn't really check.. They have been running for months now w/ no problems..

you may want to drop him (theatrus) a note.. doesn't seem right..but ???

We did exchange emails with regards to a wire diagram last week. He didn't reply to the heat question yet. Holidays or busy with work I am guessing - so no rush. I'll take a picture when I get off work because I don't see how to mount it without causing a short to the heat sink (unless I'm missing something very obvious - which is probably the issue).

I was going to order another pair of the Aquastars last night just to be safe but he is out of stock!

oreo57
12/15/2017, 08:07 AM
There should be no wiring/circuits on the back side of the board AFAICT.. just "holes" .. i.e vias for heat conduction..
Use heatsink plaster or some other thermal silicone or glue or compound and screws to attach to a block of aluminum or some such arrangement..

https://theatr.us/images/blueacro/acrostrip/hs1.jpg

saf1
12/15/2017, 09:36 AM
HI oreo57 - thanks for the image and information. Here are the drivers that I am using of his. The back of the driver definitely has solder connects and/or bumps that would touch the aluminium / heat sink. Wouldn't that cause a short?

Appreciate the help by the way.

oreo57
12/15/2017, 10:37 AM
HI oreo57 - thanks for the image and information. Here are the drivers that I am using of his. The back of the driver definitely has solder connects and/or bumps that would touch the aluminium / heat sink. Wouldn't that cause a short?

Appreciate the help by the way.

hmm. yes, doesn't look slappable on a heatsink as the duo mini drivers..

Pretty sure you could put a narrow bar heatsink to cover the Dice look 5 x 5 holes.

Just avoid the edges...;)

That said.. some "like" boards..

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2477205&page=4