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d0ughb0y
09/11/2017, 11:01 AM
I have a question to those who use sumps that has over the top flow filter sock holder. Not sure if that is the right terminology for that filter sock holder setup. It's the type used in trigger systems and eshopps 3rd generation sumps.

Question is, do you hear water splashing sound with this sock holder setup? It defeats the full siphon feature of herbie since now the water flows over the top and drops/free falls into the water in the sock, making the splashing sound.

I noticed for the trigger systems and eshopps sumps, the drain and sock sections are fully covered. Is this how they muffle the sound?

The reason I ask is I DIYed a hang-on filter sock holder using this same principle, but is not covered, and is quite noisy. I can add a top cover or add panels to the sock section to cover it. I can't tell if the noise is coming out the top or the sides or both, so wondering if I should cover the top or sides or both.

This is my DIY sock holder
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170911/d798479e0e7cf73414e16d85baa5e220.jpg

Video to demonstrate the splashing sound
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Wv2E_iBjOuM?rel=0&controls=0&showinfo=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

https://youtu.be/Wv2E_iBjOuM

For trigger systems sump users, do you hear splashing sound when you remove the sock cover? If not, perhaps I just need to cover the sock section below the sock holder ring.

Thanks.

mcgyvr
09/11/2017, 11:30 AM
I have a "similar" setup I guess..
I have no noise BUT...
First I haven't run a sock yet on it (I only planned to run socks during extreme maintenance) and second the water level in the sock section is only ~1/2" below the top of the sock so there really is no opportunity for water "falling"

d0ughb0y
09/11/2017, 11:52 AM
if you look at this trigger systems sump, the sock is mounted higher than the water level

http://www.triggersys.com/ts/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/EMERALD20C_MAIN.png

notice the entire drain/sock section is almost completely covered. The is a slit near the top. But the bottom section where the sock is is covered at least below the water line.

this is the eshopps sump. notice the sock is way higher than the water line. definitely will cause water to free fall down to the water line.
http://eshopps.com/media/products/small/rs100-small.jpg


I think the idea is to maximize the usage of the entire length of the sock so it is mounted higher.

On a traditional filter sock holder setup, the drain can go below the water line, so full siphon is still in effect, hence there is no sound. The disadvantage of this is you have to have a way to remove the drain pipe when changing the socks. I like the idea of this over the top sock holder because you can change socks without disconnecting the drain and don't even have to turn off the drain.

I think Red Sea reefer tank sumps are setup this way as well, and it has a nifty slide in/out sock holder. The downside is you have to buy the socks from Red Sea since you cannot use normal socks.

It seems the only way to avoid splashing sound is if the flow is really low, where the water only flows down the sides of the sock instead of shooting towards the middle of the sock.

GimpyFin
09/11/2017, 02:38 PM
I have one of the 3rd gen. Eshopps R-300 sumps, like what you are referencing. I hear a little water trickle when close to the tank, but it's pretty quiet. The lid over the sock helps some, but even with it off, it's still not very noisy. My flow is ~500 gph with a single durso drain.

One thing slightly different on mine (I see it on the trigger too), is mine has a vertical lip right after the drain that extends ~3/8" above the flat area that holds the sock. Water flows above that and down, rather than straight to the sock like yours. The only time I get noise like what's in your video is if I take the sock out.

d0ughb0y
09/11/2017, 03:20 PM
thanks Brian, that's helpful info.

how many inches is the water level from sock platform on your setup?

this is from red sea reefer video. their design seems to have a smaller distance.
https://i.imgur.com/VOhHft1.jpg

back to the drawing board for version 2. or maybe I'll try attaching a piece of lip first to see the effect, as I definitely missed that little detail. I only have maybe 1" space above the sock platform, so hopefully adding the 3/8" lip will not cause water to start spilling over the sides.

GimpyFin
09/11/2017, 05:00 PM
I haven't measured it exactly, but the water level is probably a good 5 inches or so below where the filter sock sits. The lip seems to help keep the water from gushing directly into the middle of the sock. In mine, most all of the water runs down the sides of the sock on the inside so it stays pretty quiet.

Lsufan
09/11/2017, 06:05 PM
Mine was pretty loud at first. I made a couple sock silencers & they reduced the noice drastically. I then made a cover for that section of the sump & that took care of the little bit of noice that was left. The sock silencers made more of a difference then I thought they would. I do have two socks so I assume that would be twice as loud as one like u have. I also have around 800 gph flowing through them.


https://s19.postimg.org/o0q1ruyqr/IMG_1285.jpg

d0ughb0y
09/11/2017, 09:44 PM
Is the silencer a disc with holes that you place on the filter sock ring?

Those are 6" socks right?

Mine is a 4" sock. I'm guessing it can handle only 300gph flow rate to keep water flowing along the sides. I am thinking of getting a 3" pvc fitting and stick it in the sock to divert the water to the filter material.

d0ughb0y
09/12/2017, 10:17 AM
this is from someone's for sale thread.
at least for this model, rs-75, there is no lip on the sock platform.
that whole drain and sock section is almost completely enclosed.

https://i.imgur.com/vKcelzzl.jpg

lieberca
09/12/2017, 10:37 AM
Mine was pretty loud at first. I made a couple sock silencers & they reduced the noice drastically. I then made a cover for that section of the sump & that took care of the little bit of noice that was left. The sock silencers made more of a difference then I thought they would. I do have two socks so I assume that would be twice as loud as one like u have. I also have around 800 gph flowing through them.


https://s19.postimg.org/o0q1ruyqr/IMG_1285.jpg

Clever and simple--nice! Not to mention looking very cleanly executed.

d0ughb0y
09/12/2017, 10:39 AM
found this video. the cover seems to make a big difference is muffling the noise.

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/x1u21PHEotw?rel=0&controls=0&showinfo=0&start=20" allowfullscreen="" width="560" height="315" frameborder="0"></iframe>

https://www.youtube.com/embed/x1u21PHEotw

lieberca
09/12/2017, 10:56 AM
Isn't the cover, in fact, added to a lot of new sumps for this very reason? That was my thinking in buying a Skimz sumpro for my new build.

d0ughb0y
09/12/2017, 11:09 AM
Isn't the cover, in fact, added to a lot of new sumps for this very reason? That was my thinking in buying a Skimz sumpro for my new build.

if you have full siphon herbie, then no cover is needed as it will be completely silent. This sock setup solves a problem (allows you to change sock without having to disconnect the drain pipe), but introduces a new one, since it defeats the full siphon feature of herbie.

GimpyFin
09/12/2017, 11:14 AM
Yeah, I looked again at mine and the lip isn't very tall. The drain and sock are enclosed/covered similar to the RS model you have pictured. Mine also has a fuge in front, so the water from the drain splits between the sock chamber and the fuge. Probably helps a little bit too.

Lsufan
09/12/2017, 06:50 PM
Is the silencer a disc with holes that you place on the filter sock ring?

Those are 6" socks right?

Mine is a 4" sock. I'm guessing it can handle only 300gph flow rate to keep water flowing along the sides. I am thinking of getting a 3" pvc fitting and stick it in the sock to divert the water to the filter material.

Yes, that is essentially what it is & the picture is 7" socks. The reason they work so well is instead of all the water flowing in the sock around the perimeter it spreads it out to where u basically have a bunch of small streams of water instead of one thick stream of water entering the sock, if that makes sense. The thinner the stream of water entering the sock the quieter it will be. That is what on a long overflow box u can't hear the water falling over the box, because it's just a thin layer of water. They are basically a cover to so I'm sure that makes atleast some difference with them.

Vertex actually makes them & I just saw how they made there's & made them myself. It maybe worth checking out so u can get more of a idea how they work because I know I'm not very good at explaining things sometimes.

But u are right, the amount of flow & how far the water falls over the lip of the sock to the water level makes a difference. I find that if u have a waterfall more then around 1/2" anywhere in the sump it will make noise. Mine is very loud without the silencers but I have quite a bit more flow then u have & that makes a big difference.

sh4rkbyt3
09/13/2017, 05:55 PM
I have the same RS-75 pictured (3rd Gen) and I get virtually no noise at all from the sock area. The overflow easily still makes the most noise by far.
What little bit of sound that comes from the water flowing/falling into the sock is pretty low and is muffled very well by the cover.

I'm using the Eshopps 4" standard 300 micron sock. The only thing I'd note on the 1/2" comment by Lsufan is at least with the OEM socks (new ones), even when soaked they fill up pretty fast to the point of slowing down the flow almost when they get dirty. After they get washed the first time that seems to not happen or at least takes much much longer.
I had this conversation with a commercial reef propagator/seller and we both assume there may be some type of initial coating on the fabric(?) that may cause it to react this way until it becomes "broken in" or used and washed once.

Other than the noise from the overflow it's actually pretty soothing to listen to.

sh4rkbyt3
09/13/2017, 07:04 PM
Also just noticed the lip around the top of the sock sock does have a raised edge but the sink it sits into is also slightly lowered.