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beglitis
09/12/2017, 01:09 PM
Hello there!

I've been reefing for the last four years but lately I seem to be struggling a bit. My last concern that triggered this post is my lyretail anthia. It was absolutely OK before I went on holiday for two weeks but now that I am back I noticed it keeps hiding and it doesn't eat at all. Still seems quite chunky but this is definitely a change in behaviour. So as it is, I decided to post some pictures of the tank with the hope that I will get some feedback - not necessarily related to the anthia. All the other fish look just fine. Fish list

1. Lyretail anthia (has been in the tank for the last 6 months or so)
2. Ocellaris clown (in the tank since the beginning, 3+ years)
3. Orchid dottyback (in the tank for a while, 2+ years)
4. Unknown wrasse (in the tank for a while, 2+ years)
5. Anemone (in the tank for 3+ years, a couple of months ago it split in two)

Losses:

1. Midas blenny. Had him for 2-3 years. Died probably of starvation (I was on holiday for 2 weeks and he probably didn't like the pellets although they were the smallest Hikari I could find)
2. Banghai cardinal. Had him for 3+ years. One day he looked just fine as usually did, eating etc. Next day he literally dropped dead.
3. 2 x firefish. I stopped trying to add them, tank is not for them. Maybe too much flow or too skittish.
4. Watchman goby. Had him for 2+ years. One day I noticed that one of his eyes was glazed. A couple of days later he had disappeared (dead and eaten).

Is my aquascape too much? Do I have too much live rock? I got carried away with the photography rules and I think the island to the left might be too big for the tank. I thought the crevices would be appreciated by the fish. However they seem to avoid it, they all go to the island to the right. I also tend to feed to the right. I am also thinking whether the powerhead gets in the way. Or that the anemone is intimidating. In general, any feedback is appreciated.

http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag387/nbeglitis/IMG_20170912_1823385_zpsmlwnt29e.jpg

http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag387/nbeglitis/IMG_20170912_1824221_zpspwfclqjj.jpg

http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag387/nbeglitis/IMG_20170912_1824542_zpseczjxjnl.jpg

http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag387/nbeglitis/IMG_20170912_1825279_zpsntusawka.jpg

http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag387/nbeglitis/IMG_20170912_1825469_zps6xaqckbu.jpg

mcgyvr
09/12/2017, 04:23 PM
aquascape looks just fine to me.. certainly not too much rock (thats not really possible..within reason of course)

Fish,etc... They do die just a normal part of life..
could just be that.. might not be..
determining the cause is often impossible and you can just drive yourself crazy with assumptions/guesses..

For the most part your tank looks just fine.. small algae issue but nothing to be concerned about.. corals seem happy...you certainly seem to be getting coralline growth so overall the tank seems to be healthy from what I can see/what you've said so far..

beglitis
09/12/2017, 04:38 PM
aquascape looks just fine to me.. certainly not too much rock (thats not really possible..within reason of course)

Fish,etc... They do die just a normal part of life..
could just be that.. might not be..
determining the cause is often impossible and you can just drive yourself crazy with assumptions/guesses..

For the most part your tank looks just fine.. small algae issue but nothing to be concerned about.. corals seem happy...you certainly seem to be getting coralline growth so overall the tank seems to be healthy from what I can see/what you've said so far..

Thanks for your reply mcgyvr, I am fighting my battle with algae. I am guilty of feeding heavily but there is also a couple of issues I need to attend that I am aware of. I don't change the media that often mostly because the goose necks for the lights are fitted where the caddies are. In order to take the caddies out I need to remove the lights. I have some stands that I can fix to the cabinet from which I can then hang the lights but this is a bit of a project with the tank in place. I need to look into it shortly.

I have more live rock in the hang on the back refugium (a CPR aquafuge). I had a 4 gallon tank with live rock rubble that I decommissioned and I ended up with the excess rock that I then put in the refugium. This refugium is a curse and a blessing. It is a bit of a detritus trap. I am about to restructure that thing too. It has a sand bed which for all I know doesn't do much other than getting dirty. I'll take it out and put it in the display. That will help me keep the refugium detritus (and nutrient) free.

I have zero ammonia and nitrites but I certainly have around 30ppm nitrates. I don't think it is too bad with soft and LPS corals but as per the above I am working on it.

I had ridiculous amounts of coraline on the back of the tank and the glass. Got rid some of it, need to get rid of the difficult bits on the glass, I need a proper scrapper for this, a credit card doesn't cut it.

I am now thinking that this hammer coral is ruining it for the fish, sort of gets in the way.

If only I could somehow upgrade the tank in situ with a bigger one that would be great. I was originally concerned whether the floor can take it but I have now realised that 24g is nothing anyway. A 40g would be great *sigh*

I am bit annoyed though that all the fish go to the left side. They are not big swimmers either, they all just hide in the rocks to the left. Like a high density apartment block!

mcgyvr
09/12/2017, 04:47 PM
Hardwood floors = easy swap to a new tank..
Get a 40b (or whatever) up an on a stand next to your current one.. BUT..
Put these under it first.. (with the furry pads)
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-Movealls-and-Protect-Alls-83037N12/203566384
Then fill it about 3/4 of the way with water and new rinsed dry sand (sand first.. then water)..
Then move everything over into the new tank..
Get the old one out..
Gently slide new tank/stand into place.. It will move easy on the movealls..

Use prybar to carefully remove "movealls".. (careful not to scratch floor) Done..
I did exactly that and it worked great.. Done the same on carpet floors before too but I drained the tank to 50% there..
Movealls are "magic"

beglitis
09/12/2017, 04:49 PM
Hardwood floors = easy swap to a new tank..
Get a 40b (or whatever) up an on a stand next to your current one.. BUT..
Put these under it first.. (with the furry pads)
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-Movealls-and-Protect-Alls-83037N12/203566384
Then fill it about 3/4 of the way with water and new dry sand..
Then move everything over into the new tank..
Get the old one out..
Gently slide new tank/stand into place

Use prybar to carefully remove "movealls".. Done..

Interesting idea! Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, let's see what is out there in the 40g bracket...

mcgyvr
09/12/2017, 04:54 PM
But.. 24g to 40g isn't that much different really..
Maybe check out the 50-60G tanks.. (deepblue)
If you like "shallow" this is great dimensions..
http://www.deepblueprofessional.com/rimless.html

I have the 80g which just gets me 4" more height..

or maybe you will like this..
http://www.deepblueprofessional.com/rimless.html

IMO if making the jump.. go sump :) (see what I did there.. rhyme time)

beglitis
09/12/2017, 04:57 PM
But.. 24g to 40g isn't that much different really..
Maybe check out the 50-60G tanks.. (deepblue)
If you like "shallow" this is great dimensions..
http://www.deepblueprofessional.com/rimless.html

I have the 80g which just gets me 4" more height..

or maybe you will like this..
http://www.deepblueprofessional.com/rimless.html

IMO if making the jump.. go sump :) (see what I did there.. rhyme time)

You know what I hate.... I hate living in London (UK) in a rented flat. I need to keep it relatively simple otherwise I will be pushing my luck. Rant over.

mcgyvr
09/12/2017, 05:05 PM
ah... gotcha.. Maybe time to move instead ;)

beglitis
09/12/2017, 09:45 PM
On a different note, should I bin this piece of rock with the palys? I've been thinking about it for some time now. They are hitchhikers, originally you couldn't see them, then there was one, now it is an entire colony.

mcgyvr
09/13/2017, 05:38 AM
Your choice on binning the paly rock..

beglitis
09/13/2017, 05:07 PM
I've been reading a lot the last couple of days and I suspect that the anthia might be suffering from flukes. I hope the fish makes it until PraziPro gets here, I would hate to lose her.

beglitis
09/15/2017, 12:39 PM
PraziPro is nowhere to be found in the UK so I ordered it from the US. It will take a while to get here. In the meantime the anthia keeps looking worse and worse, yesterday it didn't come out at all. Fortunately I managed to source some Tremazol and also fortunately I managed to catch it and an hour ago I put it in a bucket with 10L of tank water from the water change and the Tremazol. Added some live rock rubble and a pump to disturb the surface for aeration plus a heater. Fingers crossed the fish survives and recovers. When PraziPro gets here it goes straight in the tank. I suspect that the goby and the cardinal went down because of flukes.

beglitis
09/16/2017, 12:17 PM
Anthia died (damn). The cleanup crew is having a go at it now. It lasted 5-6 months. Strange, it was eating Hikari like crazy and it was very active all along. I'll try with another one, if it doesn't last then no more anthias. Water quality is good, everything else looks OK. Maybe tank is a bit small. I'll still go with the PraziPro treatment for good measure when it arrives. I'll get a Innovative Marine 8 gallon for QT, too many fish losses lately for no obvious reason, even established fish that I had for years. Anyway! :sad1:

bcb577
09/20/2017, 11:52 PM
Did you have all the fish listed in at the same time or was it more like one or two would die and youd replace with something els?

beglitis
09/21/2017, 08:58 AM
Did you have all the fish listed in at the same time or was it more like one or two would die and youd replace with something els?

No no, not all at the same time. The maximum I ever had was

1. The clown
2. The dottyback
3. The wrasse
4. The goby
5. The cardinal
6. The blenny

This run successfully for 2-3 years. It might on first glance look like a lot of fish but all of them occupied their own space and didn't bother each other. Filtration wise I have plenty of live rock including lots of ruble in the refugium and the "sump".

pisanoal
09/21/2017, 10:22 AM
What about bullying? I had a splendid dottyback in my tank that was taking out my anthias. I'd QT them (usually a trio), put them in the tank, and then slowly, 1 by 1 they would mysteriously die. They would occasionally have shredded fins that would heal. Bought a pair of clowns, and one went over the overflow, got caught in the valve, and died. Was healthy for months. Finally saw the dottyback go for a fish, so I banished it to the sump. Haven't lost a fish since.

beglitis
09/21/2017, 12:14 PM
What about bullying? I had a splendid dottyback in my tank that was taking out my anthias. I'd QT them (usually a trio), put them in the tank, and then slowly, 1 by 1 they would mysteriously die. They would occasionally have shredded fins that would heal. Bought a pair of clowns, and one went over the overflow, got caught in the valve, and died. Was healthy for months. Finally saw the dottyback go for a fish, so I banished it to the sump. Haven't lost a fish since.

No major problems with bullying, the dottyback did a bit of a dance in front of the blenny but after a day or two it stopped caring. The blenny stood his ground. They don't share a lot of space together, the blenny would be in his rock and swim around occasionally while the dottyback would mostly swim through the rockwork and not stay in the open for too long. The cardinal was the most docile fish and nobody cared about him. Zero interaction between the dottyback and the clown. Dottyback and wrasse again a bit of dancing around at the beginning but nothing after a day or two. The dottyback is a tank bred orchid and I agree it is a bit of a bully but as far as dottybacks go it is on the quiet side (stunning to look at though!). I think if size is comparable and the fish occupies a different space in the tank (i.e. bottom feeder or open water swimmer) and can stand its ground the dottyback backs off after a while. I also feed the tank regularly.

I am thinking of adding a single chromis, let's see how that goes.

pisanoal
09/21/2017, 01:51 PM
No major problems with bullying, the dottyback did a bit of a dance in front of the blenny but after a day or two it stopped caring. The blenny stood his ground. They don't share a lot of space together, the blenny would be in his rock and swim around occasionally while the dottyback would mostly swim through the rockwork and not stay in the open for too long. The cardinal was the most docile fish and nobody cared about him. Zero interaction between the dottyback and the clown. Dottyback and wrasse again a bit of dancing around at the beginning but nothing after a day or two. The dottyback is a tank bred orchid and I agree it is a bit of a bully but as far as dottybacks go it is on the quiet side (stunning to look at though!). I think if size is comparable and the fish occupies a different space in the tank (i.e. bottom feeder or open water swimmer) and can stand its ground the dottyback backs off after a while. I also feed the tank regularly.

I am thinking of adding a single chromis, let's see how that goes.I didn't think mine was bullying either. It exhibited the same behavior you are describing. Anthias are very passive fish, and do not generally stand there ground. Just keep it in mind.

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk

beglitis
09/21/2017, 02:16 PM
I didn't think mine was bullying either. It exhibited the same behavior you are describing. Anthias are very passive fish, and do not generally stand there ground. Just keep it in mind.

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk

Thanks yes I am not putting another anthia back in the tank. I feel really sorry for it.

By the way, just before it died, the anthia had sort of white stripes on its body, as if the orange colour had faded. Is this a sign of stress, infection, something else?

pisanoal
09/21/2017, 02:23 PM
Thanks yes I am not putting another anthia back in the tank. I feel really sorry for it.

By the way, just before it died, the anthia had sort of white stripes on its body, as if the orange colour had faded. Is this a sign of stress, infection, something else?

Could be any or all I suppose. If it wasn't eating, it could have gotten pale from that as anthias have been known to lose color if not receiving the proper nutrition. I have seen fish change colors with their stress level as well which could be indicative of any number of stressors including disease. It could also be a disease itself, but that would be hard to diagnose without a good description.