Frogspawn - Splitting or Dying

[Jakers88]

Tried searching around the web but couldn't really tell based off of the pictures. Frogspawn was doing great ever since its been in tank and have been spot feeding with no issues. I finally got my Ca, Mg and Alk test in the mail so tested my waters and everything seemed to be decent, low but not horrible.

Ca: 400
Alk. 6.3
Mg: 1220

I got the kalkwasser kit from BRS and adjusted my levels based on their calculator (not to exceed (x)ppm per day.
When I added the ingredients (separately) the frogspawn shriveled up for most of the day. The left side of the frogspawn seems to be doing great, the right side still hasn't opened up fully and when I was spot feeding yesterday I noticed I could see part of the skeleton in between the tentacles. I did not notice prior to adjusting the chemicals. I'm not sure if it's splitting into a third head or if its reacting negatively to the chemicals. I tested my levels yesterday and this is where I'm at (still working on increasing Ca and Mg a bit).

Ca: 415
Alk: 10.2
Mg: 1260
Temp: 78
Amm: 0
Nitrate: 0
Nitrite: 0
Sg: 1.026
ph: 8.3
Phos: 0.60


https://imgur.com/soWmgSV

https://imgur.com/FCT1IQF

https://imgur.com/2vx3H27

https://imgur.com/Kc0HGhc

https://imgur.com/sMhMijX

Whenever I try to directly add the image it's massive can won't let me resize, hence the links instead.

[pszemol]

Tried searching around the web but couldn't really tell based off of the pictures. Frogspawn was doing great ever since its been in tank and have been spot feeding with no issues. I finally got my Ca, Mg and Alk test in the mail so tested my waters and everything seemed to be decent, low but not horrible.

Ca: 400
Alk. 6.3
Mg: 1220

I got the kalkwasser kit from BRS and adjusted my levels based on their calculator (not to exceed (x)ppm per day.
When I added the ingredients (separately) the frogspawn shriveled up for most of the day. The left side of the frogspawn seems to be doing great, the right side still hasn't opened up fully and when I was spot feeding yesterday I noticed I could see part of the skeleton in between the tentacles. I did not notice prior to adjusting the chemicals. I'm not sure if it's splitting into a third head or if its reacting negatively to the chemicals. I tested my levels yesterday and this is where I'm at (still working on increasing Ca and Mg a bit).

Ca: 415
Alk: 10.2
Mg: 1260
Temp: 78
Amm: 0
Nitrate: 0
Nitrite: 0
Sg: 1.026
ph: 8.3
Phos: 0.60


https://imgur.com/soWmgSV

https://imgur.com/FCT1IQF

https://imgur.com/2vx3H27

https://imgur.com/Kc0HGhc

https://imgur.com/sMhMijX

Whenever I try to directly add the image it's massive can won't let me resize, hence the links instead.



They do not "split", they are not soft corals or anemones...

Skeleton exposed is not a good sign, tissue recession. 100% sure caused with your chemistry experiments.

I experienced it with candy cane and trumpet corals when I played with kalwasser.


Pszemol
--
Maroon Clownfish, breeding pair, 4 Red BTAs.

[Jakers88]

So just kind of wait and see if it'll make it?

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[pszemol]

So just kind of wait and see if it'll make it?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



Keep the chemistry stable and keep observing. I have lost couple of branches of my trumpet - I hope you will have more luck.


Pszemol
--
Maroon Clownfish, breeding pair, 4 Red BTAs.

[Jakers88]

Rats. So they don't split, but they can grow additional heads right? Are the differences notable for it forming another head vs the skeleton exposed like this?

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[kuzko]

They do not "split", they are not soft corals or anemones...

Skeleton exposed is not a good sign, tissue recession. 100% sure caused with your chemistry experiments.

I'm going to disagree as I have seen tons of my frogspawns "split" first hand. Where did you get the idea that only soft corals and nems have the ability to reproduce by cloning?

Also, OP, it is splitting, you can see the second mouth on the right in the 4th picture you posted with the Kc0H url. I don't think you saw exposed skeleton but rather new flesh. The new heads will sometimes stay shrivled up when they're first starting on their own. IME anyways.

[Jakers88]

Hmm, I'll have to look closer in person, out and about right now. The area that I'm looking at just looks like exposed skeleton. The head on the right is the one that's splitting, and where the big white circle section is used to be just the one mouth, so now hopefully it's splitting/growing Into another head/second mouth, right?

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[kuzko]

Hmm, I'll have to look closer in person, out and about right now. The area that I'm looking at just looks like exposed skeleton. The head on the right is the one that's splitting, and where the big white circle section is used to be just the one mouth, so now hopefully it's splitting/growing Into another head/second mouth, right?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


https://i.imgur.com/nZC1zAs.png



That is a mouth on the right. There's a second mouth somewhere in that circle on the left - cant see through the tentacles (good sign). It seems good, just let it be. Can take a week or two to "puff back up" to normal size after a good split. You mentioned spot feeding it, this is the result of spot feeding correctly ;)

[Jakers88]

Sweet, Thank you!!!

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[pszemol]

I'm going to disagree as I have seen tons of my frogspawns "split" first hand. Where did you get the idea that only soft corals and nems have the ability to reproduce by cloning?

Also, OP, it is splitting, you can see the second mouth on the right in the 4th picture you posted with the Kc0H url. I don't think you saw exposed skeleton but rather new flesh. The new heads will sometimes stay shrivled up when they're first starting on their own. IME anyways.

Growing by branching and splitting into two are two different things.
Hard corals do not "split", they branch into two heads/mouths.

[kuzko]

Growing by branching and splitting into two are two different things.
Hard corals do not "split", they branch into two heads/mouths.

If only there were a word for dividing one of something into two....

[homer1475]

I would tend to disagree somewhat.

Both of my frogspawns every time they "split"(and they have done it about 5 times now) grew a giant bubble in the middle right where the mouth is, the mouth SPLIT into 2 mouths and a new head grew from it. So yes, hard corals do split.

[prsnlty]

I would tend to disagree somewhat.

Both of my frogspawns every time they "split"(and they have done it about 5 times now) grew a giant bubble in the middle right where the mouth is, the mouth SPLIT into 2 mouths and a new head grew from it. So yes, hard corals do split.+1 This is exactly how they do it :D

OP, You raised your alk too high too fast. No more than 1ppm per day. And as far as alk goes I would do no more than 1ppm per other day or 1/2ppm per day. Frogspawn are pretty tough though and hopefully it's just mad. In my early reefing days I made the same error and my fs stayed hidden for nearly a month before it re-emerged from its skeleton. 6dkh to 10dkh is A LOT. It is like Arnold Schwarzenegger in Total Recall when he was tossed outside with no oxygen ;)

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[Jakers88]

+1 This is exactly how they do it :D

OP, You raised your alk too high too fast. No more than 1ppm per day. And as far as alk goes I would do no more than 1ppm per other day or 1/2ppm per day. Frogspawn are pretty tough though and hopefully it's just mad. In my early reefing days I made the same error and my fs stayed hidden for nearly a month before it re-emerged from its skeleton. 6dkh to 10dkh is A LOT. It is like Arnold Schwarzenegger in Total Recall when he was tossed outside with no oxygen ;)

Sent from my SM-G930T using TapatalkLol good analogy! It seems to be doing better today but still a little hidden. I gotta keep reminding myself to have patience lol

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[pszemol]

If only there were a word for dividing one of something into two....



Hard corals grow into two branches.
They do not show naked skeleton in the process.
It is quite possible his coral is growing and it is in the process of growing two polyps (mouths) out of one, feel free to call it "splitting", but showing white skeleton with tissue recession as described by OP is caused by rapid chemistry changes, not growing.


Pszemol
--
Maroon Clownfish, breeding pair, 4 Red BTAs.

[kuzko]

Hard corals grow into two branches.
They do not show naked skeleton in the process.
It is quite possible his coral is growing and it is in the process of growing two polyps (mouths) out of one, feel free to call it "splitting", but showing white skeleton with tissue recession as described by OP is caused by rapid chemistry changes, not growing.


I 100% agree that tissue recession and naked skeleton are caused by other factors; however, as I mentioned earlier I do not believe that is what OP saw. In my experience when most euphyllia split they tend to stay somewhat retracted while in the process - I believe this is what OP mistook as tissue recession. In addition, when they split - the new flesh is definitely white in a lot of color variety of euphyllia - which - when sunken - I believe op may have mistaken as exposed skeleton. I have never in my experience seen a coral be both stressed and split at the same time - but I'm not one to say anything is impossible.

[Tautoga]

My frogspawn had 3 heads when I purchased it and now it has 5. The first time one of the heads "split", it looked a bit deflated for a week or so while it was growing a new mouth, expanding and I assume new calcified structure for that new head. The second time a head split, I never noticed anything at all, it just sort of got bigger and formed a new head.

It never showed any skeleton or was receded to the point where skeleton showed up.

Its now easily 2x-3x larger than when I bought it so I guess its happy so far.

[Tripod1404]

Growing by branching and splitting into two are two different things.

Hard corals do not "split", they branch into two heads/mouths.



No they split, as well as budding. Actually, Euphylia corals split more than they bud.Two separate skeletons form under a single head and the soft tissue covering those two eventually split into two heads.

That is how it can happen in few days (sometimes overnight) while corals cannot built up that much of skeleton that fast.


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[ktownhero]

Hard corals do not "split", they branch into two heads/mouths.

This is not entirely correct. Have you ever watched a Trumpet coral grow? It actually starts to make one of its polyps elongated and then "pinches" in the middle to create two. This is most definitely a type of splitting. I have also definitely seen frogspawn and torches close up for a day or two only to emerge with a second mouth where there once was only one. And no, I don't mean a new "branch", I mean right in the middle of an existing skeletal base.